Exploitations and expectations

[Jallis370]

When you get a hold of the game will you pick it apart and find solutions for the slow parts of the game, and how will you go about doing it?

Do you expect to find the desired solutions or is this "just another Brawl"?

Now, I'm not saying this should be the next Melee, or Brawl is a bad game, but the latter was heavily restricted, making the gameplay suit the creator and not the user, and from what we have heard from the makers of the game and what we have seen on streams so far, this is pointing towards another heavily restricted game. Do you think we can beat them to the punch this time?

This is strictly a game-engine -and technique question, so set aside love and hate for the older games and let's get some grease on our hands while unlocking smash 4s inner potential.

 

[ryuu seika]

Smash 4 may not have seen the desired return of ground to air momentum retention but it has seen the inclusion of run to shield momentum retention. This allows players to approach while shielding, potentially giving players safer offensive options and thus taking some of the advantage away from the camper.
I expect SSB4 to work out much less slow paced than Brawl.

 

[PCHU]

Well, it doesn't really come off as all that slow to me.
From what I've seen in Smash 4 demo and non-demo streams (from its early "release" last night), it actually looks to be a solid game in terms of pacing, competitive depth, and casual-friendly mechanics.
The across-the-board lowering of landing lag leads me to think that shield pressure and approaching as a whole will be less tedious, and projectiles don't appear to be as great of a threat as they've been in past iterations because of appropriate cooldown.

It looks fun, and I'm eager to see what it's capable of.

 

[Fuqua]

those "solutions" you speak of most likely aren't there and its debatable wether they should or shouldn't be there, at this point nobody would know such a thing. If i don't enjoy smash 4 on a competitive level i'm simply gonna stop playing it, not gonna start looking for techs that aren't there, that would be a waste of time at best.

 

[Leebee]

I'm definitely gonna give it my full attention; honestly the speed seems good and if people do want to have it be more speedy, there's always allowing equipment to be a part of the game. perhaps equipping a standard piece of equipment for everyone to boost speed or something? it's nice that they allow you to do that and custom moves right from the CSS.

I'm not really sure where you're getting that the game is "heavily restricted." care to clarify?

I fully expect custom moves to be allowed and standard barring something horrendously broken. after all, wouldn't you want to be able to play the best version of your character (or even multiple viable versions of them)?

 

[Jallis370]

I'm definitely gonna give it my full attention; honestly the speed seems good and if people do want to have it be more speedy, there's always allowing equipment to be a part of the game. perhaps equipping a standard piece of equipment for everyone to boost speed or something? it's nice that they allow you to do that and custom moves right from the CSS.

I'm not really sure where you're getting that the game is "heavily restricted." care to clarify?

I fully expect custom moves to be allowed and standard barring something horrendously broken. after all, wouldn't you want to be able to play the best version of your character (or even multiple viable versions of them)?

Restrictions are set because Sakurai wants us to play the game he wants us to play, and he did not like how we utilized the physics engine to speed the movement up, so he put in restrictions in Brawl. Now he has given us his version of dodging and wants us to use it within its limitations.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

If your "solutions" are there they probably aren't meant to be and will be patched. This game is faster than brawl and will speed up as people get used to characters.

 

[Jallis370]

I don't think the game will speed up much if what we see is what we get. And it doesn't hurt to try things out. I'm not saying we should break the game or make another project M.

This is only the planning phase until we get our hands on the game. We've seen a great deal of how the physics works now, and it should be enough to spark some ideas about where there is potential for development of new techniques.

 

[TimeSmash]

Because I feel like procrastinating, here's a big post.

As far as speed goes, I think the game is definitely faster than Brawl, and also more ridiculous on some levels (Palutena's UpSmash). Also, I just typed fart instead of far and laughed internally. But anyways. Landing lag will probably still be an issue, but since we have seen a lot of moves autocancel and the improvement of a ground game, we will see the meta develop in interesting ways. There probably won't be as many glitches and weird things in Brawl (off the top of my head, momentum cancelling, hitstun cancelling, weird movement things like DACUS or Peach Dtilt stuff) but we will definitely find something, especially especially when hacking gets to the point where we can get into the debug menu and do other screwy things. I kind of expect hacking to be on the rise when Smash 4 comes out, in both 3DS and WiiU. Though WiiU has been difficult to hack, progress has been made, especially in terms of games like Mario Kart 8 (1) and the hardware in general (2).

If custom moves are allowed (they should be, but that's hugely debatable and is discussed in other threads), then chances are we'll probably have exploits in some of them too. If there are 3 custom moves for every B move, that's 9 custom moves altogether. I don't remember how many people are in the roster, but let's say 50 because it makes math easy. 9 * 50 = 450. Because of the number of events (moves) we have, there is a huge chance something will be exploitable at least for one move on one character. I don't see banning certain custom moves as too much of an issue, especially after Brawl and the instance that was Mach Tornado. But we have a lot of variety, so hopefully if one move is bad, we can ban it and work with the others. I guess exploits of a move would also deem it bannable. But you never know, there could be instances when all variations of the move have an exploit, so then who knows what to do there.

Stage exploits might happen, but we don't have a set stagelist yet and shouldn't go outright banning things unless they're legit crazy like how New Pork City was. I mean look a Fourside for a good example of something being banned that wasn't that bad in general. It'll be interesting to see what kind of things people can do with stage elements or just attributes of the stage in general. Something to consider as well is the Final Destination form of stages, whether it will be legal, and if it is, if any have weird exploits or elements that qualify as different enough from the original.

All in all, I think the game will be faster than Brawl and technical enough to thrive for a while. Hopefully we find out interesting things and glitches, and Nintendo listens to us when something is blatantly messed up and will patch it.

Sources

1.
The Men Who Hacked Mario Kart 8 http://kotaku.com/the-men-who-hacked-mario-kart-8-1622076182

2. GBATemp.net WiiU- Hacking http://gbatemp.net/forums/wii-u-hacking-homebrew.248/

 

[Jallis370]

Removing the online restriction on costume moves would actually make me more content with what we have in the game. At least until i had tried most of the variations.

But as of now, when I get the game I'm gonna try out all combinations of movement, dodges and attacks to see which cancels each other out, send my character flying faster than expected or ends in sudden movements, and gives more control over the floaty jumps we seem to be stuck with. I want to try ALL combinations on at least 3 characters. Maybe some characters got more potential, like Luigi's ridiculous wave dashing compared to the other melee characters.
I won't be looking for a new wave dash though.I think we can do without thanks to Sakurais improved dodge mechanic, which I think could make me forget I wanted the old and more complicated technique.

So, yeah. Nitpicking is my way. I don't like hacking as the first priority. That's more for making an entirely new game for the few who can get it working without bricking the console Harder to create a competitive scene that way. But I still want people to do it eventually.

 

[Raijinken]

I learned 64, I learned Melee, I learned Brawl, I will learn Smash4. I'll play against friends (including my newer acquaintances via Smashboards online) until the next game comes along, or I may eventually reach a point where I can afford to travel and try to compete. Or I may just stay a casual leisure-player. We'll see.

Smash 4 is unique, though, no reason to go into it expecting a previous game.