Evaluating Olimars

[WhoseReality?]

What makes one Olimar better than another?

I was going to post a response on the "Top 3 Olimars" thread, but I agree that the who is better than who is useless. The exception to this is if we can use that kind of a discussion to decide what characteristics of Olimar's play determine a more skilled or a more advanced Olimar.

I've spent a decent amount of time replying to "rate my video" posts (I'm hoping to get some videos of myself up some time), and I've been thinking about the criteria I use to judge. Here's a description of the areas of Olimar's play that I look for when I'm considering the strengths and weaknesses of a particular Olimar player. For people who are about to post first videos or have done so recently, this might help you analyze yourself just as well as anyone else can. If others have differing opinions or comments, post them so we can propel or unify our understanding of this character.

1. fluidity and style
2. playing D
3. recovery
4. the opponent


1. There are a million different ways Olimar can be played, but his ability to combo because of his range and speed are nearly unrivaled. I look for a character who has a firm understanding and execution of the depth of Olimar's moveset. Everyone can perform the standard dthrow>Usmash>Uair combos. But there are lots of ways to tack on additional hits with UpB, pikmin toss, additional grabs, additional smashes. And using those combos for more than doing damage, by that I mean setting opponents up for the kill, moving them off the stage, and being aware enough of pikmin order to deliver the final blow. Having that kind of command demonstrates an understanding of timing, spacing, and predicting your opponent's reaction.

2. But, of course, Olimar can't always be punishing his opponent every second, and there are some players who are able to turn the table back in their favor more quickly than others. The ability to spot dodge (something I need to work on), create space through rolls and DI, and shield can quickly separate the great players from the mediocre. And a lot of this has to do with knowing your opponent and your opponent's character. Which moves can be shieldgrabbed? What attacks lead to what attacks? Where am I vulnerable and out prioritized? For this, the best player will be able to sustain inevitable hits while preventing further damage and regaining the offensive. Haven't we all seen videos of Olimars just getting railed on for 15-30 seconds? It just shouldn't happen.

3. For Olimar, this is the biggie. Understanding the dimensions of Olimar's recovery and getting creative are crucial. Any decent opponent will know how to grab the ledge and let Olimar sink like a rock. It's our first priority to prevent that, and fortunately we have SO MANY options at our disposal. Using the whistle in the air, boosting from UpB onto the stage, saving the second jump and Uairing or Fairing edgehoggers to the UpB, purple pikmin throw, complete pikmin ditch into the Olimar lunge, and the tether spike. Am I missing any? Being able to implement whichever of these will be the most beneficial at the time requires loads of Olimar skill, and they will implicitly add up to fewer lives lost and more wins.

4. But judging an Olimar also depends on the skill and strength of the opponent too. There are so many videos of people 3 stocking their little brother and asking for feedback. It's as easy to tell how good an opponent is as anything else. We know which moves are dangerous and which moves cause trouble for ourselves and for our little space man. Being able to maneuver around Snake's Snakedashes and mines, MK's tornado/air game, or whatever great move whatever character has is a good indicator of skill. Personally, I would rate an
Olimar who can drag a match out to 5 minutes against the best Snake and lose higher than an Olimar who has fifteen videos of beating less-skilled players.

Ok, these are some of my thoughts that I'm throwing out there. Probably not entirely comprehensive, so post if you notice a gap. It's all for the benefit of Olimar and our play so I hope people are able to take a better look at themselves with this. What do you think?

 

[DanGR]

I liked it. good read. I'll quote this thread the next time someone in the matchup chart says "TL>>>Olimar. He sucks".

 

[Excellence]

What a very nice guide, I loved it, you basically summed it all up! Now where I fall here >_<

Comboing and styling, I personally think my Olimar is awesome. I can usually get 6 attack (down tilt jab, down tilt, down tilt, Up Smash, Up Aerial, DI, Pikmin Rope), and so on like that. I'm also unpredictable, people think Olimar needs his Pikmin all the time, I disagree. I combo really well with Olimar's increased jump and quick attacks, but I also pluck Pikmin at about 30%.

Dodging, not great, but decent. I've had a Ganondorf player (I've played him maybe 20 matches, not all in the same day) read my rolls like a book and punish me. I barely spot dodge, and when I do it's not with great results. So I definately need work in that.

Recovery, I think I do nicely. If I'm close enough, I knock people off with Purple Pikmin, if I'm too far down, I'll suicide, ect.

The opponent, I've had so many mixed results I don't know what to say. I've played crappy players and performed horribly, and played champs and performed beautifully. Go figure. So I'm going to say I need work.

2/4 isn't too great, so I'm going to say I'm not too great. =/

 

[DanGR]

I'd say that if you can do number 1 and number 4 pretty well in matches, then it's a little more important than the rest.

 

[Puddin]

I personally think my Olimar is awesome.

lol I should quote that. Anyway good guide to help players along, personally I think over-coming his recovery is the most important thing, no matter how good you are if you're edge guarded at a low percent it counts for nothing. I do enjoy surprising my opponent by being able to recovery with them on the ledge "ZOMG I WAS ON THE EDGE AND U WERENT U SHUDA DIED" this seems to be what most people think =\ fortunately for Olimar he has many ways to overcome this, purple pikmin, saving a jump, everything mentioned in the guide and being able to recover with an opponent on the edge "ZOMG" is a hard thing to do, but can be accomplished with some quick thinking and strategy. I do enjoy a Dthrow Fair combo though, so simple and easy to pull off.

 

[Coen]

So there is actually difference between Olimar styles? To me they all seem LOLSMASH SPAMSPAMSPAM O_o

 

[Puddin]

What kind of Olimars are you fighting?

 

[WhoseReality?]

So there is actually difference between Olimar styles? To me they all seem LOLSMASH SPAMSPAMSPAM O_o

This definitely brings up the issues of perceptions of non-olimar mains and the abuse of Olimar as a character.

There are plenty of people who are ready to shamelessly spam moves and I believe this is a misuse of Olimar. Like I pointed out in another Olimar thread (and is pretty widely known otherwise), spam-playing any kind of character will only get you so far, so failing to explore the nuances of this character will quickly send those spammers out the door at any tournament once they are up against a competent player.

On the other hand, there are tactful ways of exploiting his strengths and I think there are reasons for his abilities that are inherently logical. He has the punch of a bigger character, but he is incredibly fragile. His smashes are his moves, unlike other characters (I'm thinking of TL because he's my second) who must rely on jabs and tilts (and projectiles) because smashes can be too slow and can leave too big an opening. Olimar is like the saying "a good offense is a good defense," because he needs that buffer zone of his range since he just can't take the hits.

 

[peeup]

Spamming smashes with Olimar is definately not how to beat a skilled player, but knowing when to smash to get the enemy out of your face is pretty important. Being able to read an opponent helps, also. For example, if you know the opponent is about to roll behind you, anticipate that and smash behind yourself.

Spotdodging can be insanely useful, too.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Actually, Olimar styles seem to differ more than many characters in this game. Unless they suck, then they're exactly the same.

 

[Coen]

My perception (and trust me, I fight good Olimars):

When I try to projectile camp/run away, they will endlessly throw Pikmins until you approach. It's a fact though that it's ridiculously hard to safely approach a good Olimar. His smashes are almost perfect and when you shield, he will simply grab. He's also super tiny, so that works out to his advantage even more. When I hang onto the ledge, all Olimar has to do is spam grab from a distance, which means I can't stand up, roll or attack from the ledge. That leaves me with jumping from the ledge or jumping on the ledge with an attack, which will probably not reach him due to his ridiculous grabbing range. But wait, he also has that ******** upsmash and up-air if I jump. Simply put, Olimar can space himself so well that I'd say he's the hardest character in the game to approach when played right. It might be worse than Snake, but at least you can outcamp Snake with several chars. It's a true blessing we can gimp Olimar, or he would be the best char in the game period.

Posted this because I would like some input from Olimar mains. I'm actually thinking of secondarying him or something, simply because he's so gay and easy to win with.

 

[asob4]

olimar fails at camping falco =/

 

[WhoseReality?]

Simply put, Olimar can space himself so well that I'd say he's the hardest character in the game to approach when played right.

Posted this because I would like some input from Olimar mains. I'm actually thinking of secondarying him or something, simply because he's so gay and easy to win with.

It's obvious you have a clear understanding of Olimar's strengths and how he works. One thing I would add to your point about how difficult it is to approach him, which you might want to play around early with if you're thinking about picking him up, is to utilize his UpB tether to deter any diagonal air approaches.

I really got into the habit of using this when trying to counter a Mario short hop fair, but it works so well against any diagonal approach, like a floaty Peach or a tornado spamming MK. It's also great for gimping some recoveries, such as Dedede's and Ike's.

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

olimar is indeed, super tiny

 

[Roager]

My evaluation of Olimar, being an Olimar player.

Pros:
Olimar attacks (that don't use pikmin) are great for damage and combos
Smashes have excellent range, considering his size.
Side-B can rack up damage and murder recoveries. (Ike's side-B with any color, and anyone else's anything with purples)
Tiny
Fast
Floaty (helps with horizontal recovery)
Air attacks have good range, and some have really good damage potential (u-air and n-air)
Unpredictable (lots of animations look really similar. He's a bit hard to read)

Cons:
Light (flys far when hit, of course)
Floaty (helps everyone else combo him)
Tether recovery easily edgehogged, and is entirely reliant on pikmin
Pikmin attacks are kinda gambled, with the different pikmin types (smashes with whites are not useful)
Very little variance in close combat

There's others, I know. But evaluating an Olimar player could easily be based on how well the pros are used to his advantage, and how well he covers his cons.

Of course, it would also have something to do with how well he exploits enemy cons, and finds ways around enemy pros, but it's a start.

 

[Kyas]

I think that a true Olimar master keeps track of which pikmin is on call, is confident off of the edge, and is capable of drawing from all of olimar's moveset. With many and varying types of pikmin at his disposal, Olimar is a character that requires strategy as well as tactics if he is to conquer a challenging opponent. Olimar can be dangerous from almost any distance, too, and any player who can utilize that all the time is an accomplished Olimar user.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

I think that a true Olimar master keeps track of which pikmin is on call, is confident off of the edge, and is capable of drawing from all of olimar's moveset. With many and varying types of pikmin at his disposal, Olimar is a character that requires strategy as well as tactics if he is to conquer a challenging opponent. Olimar can be dangerous from almost any distance, too, and any player who can utilize that all the time is an accomplished Olimar user.

For epic mind games, if you do down throw to a white f-b, they almost never get it off as they go to the "I'm hit with grab, fair" mindset.
This makes it a cool 18 or more damage via the white pikmin as opposed to the shaking it off and hitting you before the combo starts for the second grab.

 

[DanGR]

i'll try that^ out. I'd follow up with grab>upsmash>nair combo afterwards.

 

[Camalange]

You know I love playing as Olimar, but I don't think I could ever main him or use him in a tournament because he's kind of a luck of the draw kinda character. Each pikmin is utilized for certain attacks, and you can only save your recovery if you hit the opponent whos edgeguarding with a purple pikmin...well...what if there isn't one? sure you have your downB, but do you really have time in the midst of battle to organize and rearange that little plant army? And a white pikmin smash is pretty much a whiffed attack...then ya know you go to throw a pikmin and you throw the fat purple guy like 2 cm...(sometimes thats actually useful but not the point) I love Olimar, but I don't think I could main him.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

You pretty much have it.. and I mean.. I hate how -everyone- complains how broken he is. (Not everyone, just all of the average players say so, I get so much 'stuff' for playing olimar).
If you don't have the purple, then you can up+b stage spike them.

If it's in your lineup, you can air attack through your pikmin while falling.

The whole arrangement thing is as good as a strategist you are. So for people who think ahead for 3 attacks, ity's great. "I have white now and I grabbed him, I'll do a dthrow and because white is weak, I can hit them with a foward smash" "I have a purple now, so I will foward b them while they approach me in the air to knock them back and follow it with a quick fair to down smash"

You may not have all of those type of thoughts in your head, but people who play him as their main generally do. (Or at least I do.. I think it would be the same for the rest of them)

 

[WhoseReality?]

The whole arrangement thing is as good as a strategist you are. So for people who think ahead for 3 attacks, ity's great. "I have white now and I grabbed him, I'll do a dthrow and because white is weak, I can hit them with a foward smash" "I have a purple now, so I will foward b them while they approach me in the air to knock them back and follow it with a quick fair to down smash"

You may not have all of those type of thoughts in your head, but people who play him as their main generally do. (Or at least I do.. I think it would be the same for the rest of them)

I think that's definitely a good example of the optimal Olimar mindset with being aware of how different pikmin translate into different combos. And mixing a thrown white in there sounds like an awesome idea, I've never seen it done.

 

[DanGR]

actually, it becomes easier to think like that^ when your lineup is whistled. You have a set pikmin order that you can use to come up with different variations on how to go about your business in certain situations. for ex. if you have red, red, white, yellow, blue pikmin, and you whistle, it'll always change to one order. You can sort of "memorize" this combination of pikmin to come up with certain combos and such.