Esports growth and future discussion

[Smasher89]

So im interested in what you think about Esports future, since this is on Smashboards, which game will get the most growth, how will event change, coverage and similar things.

What is Esports currently missing that sports have and what can we learn from other competitions.
Both the ESC(European Smash circuit) and events like Smashcon, the new documentary, EVO and definitly other tournaments in the summer makes for a very promising year to come and exciting development.
What can help making event not only bigger but also better for everyone. Same with coverage and basicly the entire Esportsmarket.
Lets discuss and get some nice ideas out here :D

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

From my stand point in the community, I think that Melee will continue to get bigger and bigger, tournaments will increase in quality and overall coverage. I feel that small/medium size scenes will erupt as we get more and more exposure. In my opinion, Smash 4 will unfortunately see its peak during late 2015 or mid 2016 and die off soon after (as brawl did). As for PM, I believe that we, as a fan base, a community, and a family, will pull through this low point, and come back for the better. Looking at Brawl, I have to say, I'm *GLAD* that it has died off completely, not to say that it's a bad game, or that its fanbase is in any way inferior, I just feel it's better for the overall competitive smash community if it were to be completely gone. Now to the classic, 64, I know it's a lot to ask, but I hope that we can revive this scene, it's unfortunate that such a great game is dying off (mainly in the US), after all, if it weren't for 64, we wouldn't be where we are. Event-wise, I think they'll continue to get larger and higher quality, I believe that if we can avoid bad TOing *cough* sandstorm *cough* and have more great streams like VGBC, CT, and VSGC, we can get more viewers and a bigger audience, Another thing about tournaments, I think we need to make it more audience friendly, I've noticed people freaking out about girls, and kids, I think it'd be a lot easier to enter the community if being you didn't attract attention, although that's nothing big, it barely happens anymore. A week or two ago someone posted an interesting idea to Reddit: why not let viewers donate money into the pot? I think that'd help our hype factor, and it'd mean the winners are able to get to more tournaments, meaning bigger tournament turnout rates. I also think it'd help if people increased the quality of their streams, specifically big streamers, *looks at MVG*.

Overall, I think everything is going positively, though there are quite a few flaws we need to hammer out.

 

[ranmaru]

I think we have to become a bit more social or at least recognize most of us have problems socializing and need to improve on that part, on the 'freaking out on girls and babies' thing. If you freak out about girls, that means you should put yourself out of your comfort zone and talk to more girls (at a party or club or something). That's not something that will improve our image, but our life skills as well.

I like the idea of viewers donating to the pot, definitely can introduce a level of hype and it helps the viewer feel like they contributed something to the scene.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I think we have to become a bit more social or at least recognize most of us have problems socializing and need to improve on that part, on the 'freaking out on girls and babies' thing. If you freak out about girls, that means you should put yourself out of your comfort zone and talk to more girls (at a party or club or something). That's not something that will improve our image, but our life skills as well.

I like the idea of viewers donating to the pot, definitely can introduce a level of hype and it helps the viewer feel like they contributed something to the scene.

I don't really agree with the first thing, from past experiences I've gathered that people are just find in social atmospheres, at least at majors/nationals/regionals.

 

[ranmaru]

Oh, then can you clarify what you mean by making things 'more audience friendly' and what solutions you propose for that? That's what I was thinking about.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Oh, then can you clarify what you mean by making things 'more audience friendly' and what solutions you propose for that? That's what I was thinking about.

What I meant was that the tournament-going community needs to realize that just because someone is female, or underage doesn't mean that we need to go crazy over it, they're members of our community just like everyone else. I don't think there really is a set "solution" I just think we need to become more tolerant.

 

[The_World]

From my stand point in the community, I think that Melee will continue to get bigger and bigger, tournaments will increase in quality and overall coverage. I feel that small/medium size scenes will erupt as we get more and more exposure. In my opinion, Smash 4 will unfortunately see its peak during late 2015 or mid 2016 and die off soon after (as brawl did). As for PM, I believe that we, as a fan base, a community, and a family, will pull through this low point, and come back for the better. Looking at Brawl, I have to say, I'm *GLAD* that it has died off completely, not to say that it's a bad game, or that its fanbase is in any way inferior, I just feel it's better for the overall competitive smash community if it were to be completely gone. Now to the classic, 64, I know it's a lot to ask, but I hope that we can revive this scene, it's unfortunate that such a great game is dying off (mainly in the US), after all, if it weren't for 64, we wouldn't be where we are. Event-wise, I think they'll continue to get larger and higher quality, I believe that if we can avoid bad TOing *cough* sandstorm *cough* and have more great streams like VGBC, CT, and VSGC, we can get more viewers and a bigger audience, Another thing about tournaments, I think we need to make it more audience friendly, I've noticed people freaking out about girls, and kids, I think it'd be a lot easier to enter the community if being you didn't attract attention, although that's nothing big, it barely happens anymore. A week or two ago someone posted an interesting idea to Reddit: why not let viewers donate money into the pot? I think that'd help our hype factor, and it'd mean the winners are able to get to more tournaments, meaning bigger tournament turnout rates. I also think it'd help if people increased the quality of their streams, specifically big streamers, *looks at MVG*.

Overall, I think everything is going positively, though there are quite a few flaws we need to hammer out.

I don't see the logic in how having Brawl and Smash 4 die but having three other games keep their scene. The reason Brawl died out (even though it hasn't really, although it could be said at least it is in the process of dying out) is because Smash 4 was a true successor: it didn't overhaul any mechanics and kept the gameplay similar enough to Brawl to be easily accessible to those who played it, while improving upon them to offer a better experience. Smash 4 won't die, especially now that Nintendo is at least pretending to care.

But in terms of Smash growing as an Esport, I think there is one thing that stands as essential (excluding social issues). The main issue is that the Smash community is too divided. To my knowledge, no other fighting game community is split between each release of its series and argue about which one was the best. Although I think that every game in the series is excellent in its own way, the only way to truly bring together the community, is for there to be another Smash game that kills off every other game's scene. The series needs to establish a mechanical coherence that it's lacked since the release of Melee, and at this point, the best way to do that is to essentially combine whatever made each previous title good and unique, but in such a way that it doesn't stray too far from the gameplay of the most recent title, Smash 4. Obviously that isn't something the community itself has control over(?) but having a game to bring together players from different games under one game would definetly solve a few problems down the road. I'm sure Evo would prefer to just have one Smash game in its line up rather than two.

But until that day comes, I think people need to be more accepting of the choice of games people play. Generally people point to Melee as the best and most competitive game, but that game has signficant problems that 64, Brawl and even PM suffer from. I'm sure as time goes these sort of problems will surface more in Smash 4, but the game is definelty a step in the right direction.

I also think that Smash needs to be a bit more financially viable, so it will become more attractive for players, spectators and sponsors, although Smash is in a position to get more money than any other fighting game. Among the top 100 paid fighting game players, the games that appear are Street Fighter, Marvel Vs Capcom 3, Dead or Alive, Tekken, Soul Caliber, Mortal Combat, and both Melee AND Brawl. Smash games are about as lucrative as other fighters WITHOUT official support from the creator to the community. Certainly getting official support would help generate revenue, thus more incentive to play.

In terms of improving our community from a social stand point, think everybody who plays Smash Bros competitively should watch the video of Milktea talking about sexism in the community. That should get us on the right foot.


**sorry for any spelling errors or jumps in logic, I'm tired and typing this on my phone.

 

[ranmaru]

Definitely think everyone should watch the milktea video. Think about how outspoken the women in this community are before you think about her own intentions.

I don't think there will be a game that unites everyone together. We like melee so much we are good. Some don't, and that's fine. Best we can do is focus on our own games, I really like having rooms for each event. Shell Shocked had two rooms for PM and Melee. Each had enough space and setups for each. We can co-exist together, especially if we remember that we are all smashers. Maybe if there was some after-event that all smashers could participate in, that would celebrate them being smashers without having to play the game. I feel like that can be a way to bring smashers together of all games. Don't know what though.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I don't see the logic in how having Brawl and Smash 4 die but having three other games keep their scene. The reason Brawl died out (even though it hasn't really, although it could be said at least it is in the process of dying out) is because Smash 4 was a true successor: it didn't overhaul any mechanics and kept the gameplay similar enough to Brawl to be easily accessible to those who played it, while improving upon them to offer a better experience. Smash 4 won't die, especially now that Nintendo is at least pretending to care.

But in terms of Smash growing as an Esport, I think there is one thing that stands as essential (excluding social issues). The main issue is that the Smash community is too divided. To my knowledge, no other fighting game community is split between each release of its series and argue about which one was the best. Although I think that every game in the series is excellent in its own way, the only way to truly bring together the community, is for there to be another Smash game that kills off every other game's scene. The series needs to establish a mechanical coherence that it's lacked since the release of Melee, and at this point, the best way to do that is to essentially combine whatever made each previous title good and unique, but in such a way that it doesn't stray too far from the gameplay of the most recent title, Smash 4. Obviously that isn't something the community itself has control over(?) but having a game to bring together players from different games under one game would definetly solve a few problems down the road. I'm sure Evo would prefer to just have one Smash game in its line up rather than two.

But until that day comes, I think people need to be more accepting of the choice of games people play. Generally people point to Melee as the best and most competitive game, but that game has signficant problems that 64, Brawl and even PM suffer from. I'm sure as time goes these sort of problems will surface more in Smash 4, but the game is definelty a step in the right direction.

I also think that Smash needs to be a bit more financially viable, so it will become more attractive for players, spectators and sponsors, although Smash is in a position to get more money than any other fighting game. Among the top 100 paid fighting game players, the games that appear are Street Fighter, Marvel Vs Capcom 3, Dead or Alive, Tekken, Soul Caliber, Mortal Combat, and both Melee AND Brawl. Smash games are about as lucrative as other fighters WITHOUT official support from the creator to the community. Certainly getting official support would help generate revenue, thus more incentive to play.

In terms of improving our community from a social stand point, think everybody who plays Smash Bros competitively should watch the video of Milktea talking about sexism in the community. That should get us on the right foot.


**sorry for any spelling errors or jumps in logic, I'm tired and typing this on my phone.

Brawl and Sm4sh should die in my personal opinion. I just don't like them from a SSBM main stand-point.

 

[The_World]

Not liking something doesn't provide grounds to condemn it. The "Brawl Scene" moved on to Smash 4, so Brawl isn't too relevant at this point. I'll be the first to admit that Melee has things that I wish could be in Smash 4 (L Canceling and more improv combo gameplay would be nice), but the game shows plenty of potential.

Preferring one game over another is ok; thinking one Smash is superior is ok; telling others their game should die because you don't like it is not okay, and only perpetuates divisions in the community.

Also, I still don't see the logic of killing off the most recent game yet keeping the oldest. 64, Melee, PM and (Brawl)Smash 4 can coexist, and they are all great games.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Not liking something doesn't provide grounds to condemn it. The "Brawl Scene" moved on to Smash 4, so Brawl isn't too relevant at this point. I'll be the first to admit that Melee has things that I wish could be in Smash 4 (L Canceling and more improv combo gameplay would be nice), but the game shows plenty of potential.

Preferring one game over another is ok; thinking one Smash is superior is ok; telling others their game should die because you don't like it is not okay, and only perpetuates divisions in the community.

Also, I still don't see the logic of killing off the most recent game yet keeping the oldest. 64, Melee, PM and (Brawl)Smash 4 can coexist, and they are all great games.

Well, in my point of view, Sm4sh just takes audience from the (in my opinion) superior smash games. I agree that we should live undivided, but if Sm4sh dying is what it takes, I'm happy with that.

 

[The_World]

If in your opinion Melee is the most superior, then why bother giving 64 or PM the time of day? They just draw audience away from Melee.

Pardon if I sound rude, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

If in your opinion Melee is the most superior, then why bother giving 64 or PM the time of day? They just draw audience away from Melee.

Pardon if I sound rude, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.

64 should get attention because it's the original, it's where we all started. In PM's case, I'm hoping that anyone that plays PM eventually will switch to Melee (due to its obvious superiority).

 

[Rikkhan]

being a follower of big e-sports games like SC2 and LoL, it's hard for me to believe that smash will get bigger, I think that it will remain as a niche e-sports, having high peaks during releases of a new smash game.