Escaping Falco's Chaingrab ASAP?

[Jarabe 93]

What's the fastest way to get out of Falco's chaingrab, assuming that I (Wolf) am at 0%?
-Which way to I DI? Regular or Smash?
-Do I use my Shine?
-Do I dodge?
-Do I jump?
etc.
Thanks in advance.

 

[ArcPoint]

As I just figured out like two days ago, you can't. You're going to get spiked if Falco grabs you, unless the Falco messes up. So you'd better be ready to Meteor cancel it ASAP =) Be sure to avoid the grab for as long as possible. And if possible, stay around the edges at earlier percents. If he grabs you, and goes across the stage, then you'll be too high of damage, if he grabs you and spikes you at the closest edge, you won't have enough damage.

And of course, don't get grabbed. ^^

 

[colored blind]

Avoid the grab and space with your Bairs. If all the Falco is looking for is the grab, you can punish him for it.

Once you're in the grab, you're screwed unless the Falco messes up. Your best bet would be the Reflector because it activates the quickest of the options you mention (and DI'ing doesn't help), has three our four frames of invincibility, and quickly puts them in a more disadvantaged situation. But like I said, it'll only happen if the Falco screws up. Fast fall once you get off the ledge to hopefully avoid the Dair finisher, or Meteor Cancel if it hits.

 

[Beetle Juice]

lol in other words u can't do jack **** against his grab so it would be common sense to fight at the middle of the stage until you are at 40% damage in order of avoiding the spike.
Falco *****. =)

-Beetle Juice

 

[colored blind]

Correction: You can't do jack **** against his grab if you get grabbed. My brother mains DDD and Falco, so I'm pretty good at avoiding grabs by spacing. Falco's grab range isn't that spectacular.

Plus, I'm a Wolf main and you're a Falco main. I'm gonna sugar coat the pwnage, lol.

 

[Beetle Juice]

yea sorry about the spelling it is hard to do aim and write on the boards at the same time but falco can always find a way to grab anyone because it is not like DDD's when he just shields and waits for you to approach when falco does grab is usually from you being punished from either a laser, jab, or hitting his shield. Either being predictable or not he is gonna grab you one way or the other.

 

[derv]

when you know the spike is coming (your off the stage)
Just DI backwards and semi-scar onto the stage.
ive only tried this twice, but it worked, if this happens to be a complete failure
then just DI backwards, midair jump then wolf kick horizontally and hit falco with the final kick

 

[Azure Rune]

...........

 

[§witch]

Avoid the grab and space with your Bairs. If all the Falco is looking for is the grab, you can punish him for it.

Once you're in the grab, you're screwed unless the Falco messes up. Your best bet would be the Reflector because it activates the quickest of the options you mention (and DI'ing doesn't help), has three our four frames of invincibility, and quickly puts them in a more disadvantaged situation. But like I said, it'll only happen if the Falco screws up. Fast fall once you get off the ledge to hopefully avoid the Dair finisher, or Meteor Cancel if it hits.

Spacing with your bairs will be an easy sheildgrab. Not reflector. Spot dodge is your fastest option. Jab is second. I ahve a question, that I'm pretty sure no one will have thought of or tried. Try to grab falco during his chaingrab. Wolf has a pretty fast grab, maybe that would work...wait wtf am I helping you guys beat my main?

 

[WULFN]

Spacing with your bairs will be an easy sheildgrab. Not reflector. Spot dodge is your fastest option. Jab is second. I ahve a question, that I'm pretty sure no one will have thought of or tried. Try to grab falco during his chaingrab. Wolf has a pretty fast grab, maybe that would work...wait wtf am I helping you guys beat my main?

Lol, its because now the wolf boards might become beter and so that you can say you are helping us and still can pwn us

 

[~ Gheb ~]

A good falco has the advantage against Wolf either way. If he really only goes for a CG he might lose but usually a Falco beats Wolf, even without CG

 

[WULFN]

A good falco has the advantage against Wolf either way. If he really only goes for a CG he might lose but usually a Falco beats Wolf, even without CG

Not in all cases. if u use your spacing right, and punish him whenever possible, u can surly win. I, personally, when at higher a damage, I try to stay on him the entire time, not letting him be able to do a single move. i kind of laugh to myself when he cant do anything about it

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not in all cases. if u use your spacing right, and punish him whenever possible, u can surly win. I, personally, when at higher a damage, I try to stay on him the entire time, not letting him be able to do a single move. i kind of laugh to myself when he cant do anything about it

You can beat everyone "if you punish him whenever possible". It just happens to be the case, that Falco can punish better than Wolf with his better Combo potential and...well ...his CG.
Wolf can't really outcamp him and Falcos Shine destroys any attempt to approach.
Honestly, I think Falco is the only character, that Wolf can't beat (at same skill level) in any case.

 

[§witch]

falco's downfall is his lack of killing options. Combine that with wolf's weight, and you have all you need to beat him. Provided you don't get spiked of course.

 

[colored blind]

Spacing with your bairs will be an easy sheildgrab. Not reflector. Spot dodge is your fastest option. Jab is second. I ahve a question, that I'm pretty sure no one will have thought of or tried. Try to grab falco during his chaingrab. Wolf has a pretty fast grab, maybe that would work...wait wtf am I helping you guys beat my main?

No Falco has shieldgrabbed my Bairs, because I don't jump straight into shields. Wolf has amazing aerial control, so once I get the Bair off, I immediately back off out of grab range. I said space, not jump into them.

Spotdodge has two frames of startup lag, jab even more. I thought the reflector started near immediately. I could be wrong, but whatever.

The great thing about Wolf is that he can keep the pressure on the opponent really well. Once he's above the percentage for Falco's cg to work, constant chasing and pressure is the key to winning.

 

[§witch]

...
10 whoops

 

[§witch]

No Falco has shieldgrabbed my Bairs, because I don't jump straight into shields. Wolf has amazing aerial control, so once I get the Bair off, I immediately back off out of grab range. I said space, not jump into them.
Not possible to do that with wolf's bair. he does NOT have as good aerial control as a jiggs or kirby, you can't get your bair sheilded and DI out of grab range before the grab would connect.

Spotdodge has two frames of startup lag, jab even more. I thought the reflector started near immediately. I could be wrong, but whatever.
Soptdodge is the fastest option you have.

The great thing about Wolf is that he can keep the pressure on the opponent really well. Once he's above the percentage for Falco's cg to work, constant chasing and pressure is the key to winning.
Falco still has his amazing laser pressure after that point, never think for a second that CG is the only thing he has, that will only get you beaten.

My points will be in red

 

[colored blind]

Wolf's horizontal air speed is almost as good as Wario's and Jigglypuff's:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167952
In my experience, hitting the very top of the shield with a Bair and DI'ing back will keep you safe. You say I haven't faced good Falcos. Whatever, you may be right. But the Falcos I've played sure as hell know about the cg and have certainly tried to shieldgrab my Bair, and I can't once remember when I spaced my Bair correctly (again, as in not stupidly jumping into the shield) and got shieldgrabbed for it.

I'll concede on the spotdodge bit--I wasn't sure on this. In that case, how many frames of startup lag does the reflector have, so that I better know my options later?

I know Falco has good laser pressure, but Wolf has pretty good pressure up close. I even said to chase, which intends to close the distance in which the laser would be more effective. I never said the chaingrab is all Falco has, but it frankly is his scariest combo since it can zero-death quite a bit of the cast, so it's understandable that that's what the focus is on. The battle is a lot more balanced when the chaingrab isn't a danger, which even you can't argue.

 

[§witch]

I don't dispute the advantage of his 0-death, but a falco can easily escape pressure with with an AIP. He falls too fast to have as good aerial control as the others stated. Also, you realize that horizontal air movement speed =/= air control right? I'll repeat for the third time, wolf can't hit with a bair. then DI out of grab range.

 

[KramerDsmash]

why doesnt someone prove it. Arguing back and forth doesn't help anyone learn cause you aren't bringing in new information.
One of you get a friend and see if someone can grab wolf if he DIs after Bair.
But just saying something is so doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

The chaingrab is impossible to escape unless he screws up. Usually when he goes to spike me at the edge I use my reflector to try to stop him and it seems to work quite a bit.

 

[§witch]

why doesnt someone prove it. Arguing back and forth doesn't help anyone learn cause you aren't bringing in new information.
One of you get a friend and see if someone can grab wolf if he DIs after Bair.
But just saying something is so doesn't mean it's true.

There is no way to prove it to him other than by playing him on wifi, but that could throw off both of our timing. I know for a fact that it can be done, as I've played plenty of wolf's and have sheildgrabbed them to hell.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Falcos grab range is good enough to Shield Grab Wolfs bair

 

[JFizzle]

So Wolf Bair's a falco who is shielding, and Wolf will always get shield-grabbed if his Bair hits the shield, even with DI? I'll need to make a vid for this cause it could be useful to know the truth. I'll have it posted later on tonight if anyone's interested.

 

[§witch]

K, sounds good. I mean, you need impeccable timing, but it's doable.

 

[colored blind]

I just decided to let the argument die, in hopes that more productive conversation may ensue. Especially since at the end, it pretty much digressed from the topic of Falco's chaingrab.

Okay, besides what we've already mentioned (and disputed), what are some less debatable ways to avoid/escape the chaingrab and/or spike? How should one approach a Falco? How should one DI at the end of the stage to avoid the spike? I'd actually like to hear letterbomb's response (due to the lack of inflection in text, I'll make it clear that I'm NOT sarcastic), or any other experienced Falco mainer.

 

[kailo34ce]

falco can outspeed wolf...falco can insta-kill him before 60% period
(trust me i fight sethlons falco often and sethlon>sk92)
falco out prioritizes wolf period. falco outspaces wolf easily
..the way to escape cg-spike is the dumb way to beat 99% of the things in brawl..

be a homo and pick metaknight :D

much much love to my wolfy brothers

 

[§witch]

I still like SK more...but since I haven't played either of them I guess that doesn't matter. Mmk, at the edge, his fastfalling makes it hard to get the SH dair to hit until somewhere around 35%. I dunno, I'm not on the receiving end of the CG spike too often so i can't say the best way to get out. Oh, with fox the second I hit the edge I start mashing down B to stall but idk if that'll work with wolf, it probably will.

 

[JFizzle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-oxDGo1a3w

The video doesnt explain anything, it was just for testing, so I'll explain the results.

If Bair is power-shielded, then you WILL be grabbed, unless you DI away from Falco BEFORE your Bair comes out, AND you hit with the tip of your Bair. If just regularly shielded with no DI by Wolf, you will NOT be grabbed if you hit with the tip of Bair. Wolf can DI away and Bair at close range safely, again, unless power-shielded. Any other situation, you WILL be grabbed.

Now I'll see if I can come up with a theory on how to DI the spike after the chain-throw.

 

[colored blind]

Using the Reflector to stall? I assume you mean slow the fall once you get hit, right? It won't work with Wolf because his Reflector doesn't slow his fall. The thing about the spike being hard to pull off because of Wolf's gravity is good to know, though.

Um...Another thing about the chaingrab...Do NOT mash the jump button to try to get out of it. I've lost my jump/jumped straight into the Dair spike that way before, so don't do it. Spotdodging is a better option while onstage, and Reflector/DI offstage.

Does anyone know how soon you can react after getting hit with the spike? I haven't played in about a week, but I was thinking that using your double jump, you could jump backwards then Firewolf onto the stage diagonally to avoid edgehogging and get directly onto the stage. Of course, a Falco with good timing might still be able to pull off another spike, but it'd be useful thing to try and see if it's worth using once spiked.

Thanks for the video JFizzle. It's useful. Bair isn't as safe as I believed it was, but it's still useful.

A better question for the Falco mainers (at least, better than asking them how to escape their spike >_>) would be what sorts of things make it difficult to face a Wolf or hard to get a grab off on them? What things make Wolf still dangerous against you at low percentages, even with the danger of the chaingrab?

 

[Turbo Ether]

Properly spaced Bair and Fair does not get shield grabbed. Wolf can DI stupidly far away.

Falco's smashes and Shine are all punishable by different smashes depending on range.

If Falco reflects your blaster at mid/long range, it won't reach you.

Falco's nair has good priority, but yours can cut through.

You can Nair, Shine and bayonet Falco out of UpB.

 

[kailo34ce]

your post if half DUH half DUMB

 

[WTF!]

i experienced falcos chaingrab like 1 day ago whit my wolf and it sure does suck

they guy used it on me when :

I was wining

I had 1 stock left. to do damage so he can win (he dint)

he was just pamming to do some damage easy cuz he cant do normal atacks