Elemental effects actually DOING something?

[LaniusShrike]

Pardon if something like this has been posted before, I couldn't find anything.

What do you guys think about elemental effects actually doing more than just graphically altering the victim? That is to say, maybe if captain falcon lights a character on fire, other characters that touch the victim would light on fire as well, causing small damage over the course of a few seconds.

So here's what I was thinking.
Fire- Contagious flame that inflicts damage like the lip's stick.
Shadow- Makes movements just the slightest bit slower.
Ice- Already has the chance to freeze enemies, and that's all it needs.
Lightning- Just have lightning attacks have a longer stun time (and bring back the X-ray effect from SB64)

 

[Lawrencelot]

I like the fire idea. But if i'm right theres another element: explosion. It's the same as fire but has more knockback (samus missile, cpt falcons upB). You could see these two as one element of course. If there will be more pokemon they could add more elements, like grass and rock and such. As long as the effects don't have too much influence, it would be a great addition i think.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

(and bring back the X-ray effect from SB64)

I miss that so much.

BRING IT BACK!

 

[Wizzlecroff]

I don't like the slowing effect of shadow. That would suck to be on the recieving end. Fire and Electric is okay, but I would suggest that shadow hits make the opponent fall down or something like that.

 

[JLoc]

what about wind and water? I would like for them to finish the complete set. They have light now.

 

[Numa Dude]

They absolutelly need to bring the X-ray thing back the raygun was useless in melee withought it.

 

[alpha n00b]

that's a brilliant idea!, even the smallest gamplay changes will make it better!, now let's just hope other gameplay nuisances like phantom hits and sloppy controls disapper...

 

[Vyquinzum]

Pardon if something like this has been posted before, I couldn't find anything.

What do you guys think about elemental effects actually doing more than just graphically altering the victim? That is to say, maybe if captain falcon lights a character on fire, other characters that touch the victim would light on fire as well, causing small damage over the course of a few seconds.

So here's what I was thinking.
Fire- Contagious flame that inflicts damage like the lip's stick.
Shadow- Makes movements just the slightest bit slower.
Ice- Already has the chance to freeze enemies, and that's all it needs.
Lightning- Just have lightning attacks have a longer stun time (and bring back the X-ray effect from SB64)

Great idea; infact I was thinking about this a few weeks ago and forgot to post it...

what about wind and water? I would like for them to finish the complete set. They have light now.

That could be interesting...

...do you have suggestions on what would they do?

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Shadow: Shouldn't really have a slowdown effect, it should cause extra damage, like fire but not be contagious.
Water: Should have the slowdown effect, and decrease traction making the characters skiddy like Luigi.
Wind: Doesn't really need an effect.
Rock: Makes your character control more sluggishly, like they were giant, without them actually being giant.
(Seriously, having a rock bash YOUR head would make you feel lethargic too.)

 

[Chickenboy666]

Shadow: Shouldn't really have a slowdown effect, it should cause extra damage, like fire but not be contagious.
Water: Should have the slowdown effect, and decrease traction making the characters skiddy like Luigi.
Wind: Doesn't really need an effect.
Rock: Makes your character control more sluggishly, like they were giant, without them actually being giant.

The water effect should bring more weakness against electric attacks and some resistance to fire attacks while the character is wet.

(Seriously, having a rock bash YOUR head would make you feel lethargic too.)

LOL

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Also, the characters should drip when wet, and fling water with their attacks.
Fire Fox/Fire Bird should completely dry them off.

 

[Chickenboy666]

Also, the characters should drip when wet, and fling water with their attacks.
Fire Fox/Fire Bird should completely dry them off.

I was just about to add that to my post
Great idea!!

 

[Percon]

Neat idea. They just need to make sure that things like shadow aren't abusable to the point of cheap.

Ooh, and what about items that make all of the users attacks a certain element? :O

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

There's no way shadow can't be cheap; it's basically a lip stick that's slightly more powerful,
and only a good couple of attacks have this effect. The effects only last for 3-5 seconds each.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Don't forget: these idea's are all great, but they shouldn't be a major point in Smash bros. It's not an rpg, it's a fighting game. If all of this really happens, it could be like: ah, you choose fox, then i choose ice climbers (if ice would be better than fire).

 

[LaniusShrike]

yeah- I personally don't think making certain effects stronger against certain characters would be good at all. But, I do like the idea of having certain items add an elemental effect to a character's attacks. Also, maybe special modes could be added, like a fire tag sort of thing- everyone runs away from a computer that's lit on fire and see how long people can last? I agree that the shadow slow down probably isn't the best thing that could be done with it.
Wind- Add delay to aerial attacks, or maybe lower second jump height
Earth- Add delay to ground attacks, or maybe lower initial jump height
Light- That already adds the flower effect, right?
Water- I think a simple water dripping effect would be great.
Explosion- I'd group that with fire. It'd be awesome seeing one person tossed by an explosion and then slamming into the other three and ingiting them all.

I'd certainly use pokemon more if they changed the gameplay like this.

 

[JLoc]

That could be interesting...

...do you have suggestions on what would they do?

well theres Wind Waker Link, he can surely use some wind element.

I can't say much for the water though, I mean pokemon is a giving but I don't want it to be a pokemon. And the character don't have to have his move to be all water. Just 1 or 2 moveset.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Yes, and they don't need to have only one element. Ganondorf has shadow and electric for example.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Pardon if something like this has been posted before, I couldn't find anything.

What do you guys think about elemental effects actually doing more than just graphically altering the victim? That is to say, maybe if captain falcon lights a character on fire, other characters that touch the victim would light on fire as well, causing small damage over the course of a few seconds.

So here's what I was thinking.
Fire- Contagious flame that inflicts damage like the lip's stick.
Shadow- Makes movements just the slightest bit slower.
Ice- Already has the chance to freeze enemies, and that's all it needs.
Lightning- Just have lightning attacks have a longer stun time (and bring back the X-ray effect from SB64)

The idea sounds logical,but the end result would become a very deep unbalance in the game.

Consider this,Characters have diffirent elemental based attacks.Take some of these for example:

Mario=Fire
Ganon=Shadow
Ice=IC's
Lightning=Pikachu

Mario would be able to just camp and shoot fire balls at his opponents.That way he can just cause consecutive burn damage towards his opponents.Not to mention his F-smash can have the same effect.Even Link would be able to tourment people with his bombs.

Ganon would be able to use the speed adjustment to his advantage and combo his opponent with ease.And with consecutive use it can give your opponent a disadvantage.

IC's...Well,that's preety much neutral.

Pikachu would be able to constantly find exposures in his opponents defenses.Consider Pikachu's Fair.Since stun time is increased,and the move has no variable knock back,he would be able to SHFFLC Fair his opponent with a constant,and potentialy have an infinate.

Why would you want elemental effects in smash bros? This isn't an RPG,it's a fighting game.Another thing is implementing this"Elemental Effect" Function would take far too much time to balance out because each move must be tested against every individual character.

Not to mention that it also breaks the simplicity of the game due to the fact you not only have to worry about the character you choose,but the element you choose against your opponent.

And last but not least,no one really cares about elemental effects in smash.And i repeat,this isn't an RPG,it's a fighting game.

And Jloc,Wind Waker link isn't in smash.The whole IC's/G&W/Young Link rumour is false,and has been proven false for nearly 6 months.

 

[LaniusShrike]

. . . I don't see how balancing would be any harder than it already is. It's not like certain characters would be weaker against certain elements. I'm not proposing the characters being exactly the same with these added effects- Duh, that would obviously change balance. But, if you lessened the initial damage of fire attacks then the real difference would be that the fireballs could (barely) damage clumps of enemies instead of individuals. Besides... camping? Camping doesn't work now, why would adding these effects change that?
Things like pikachu getting infinate combos obviously would have to be balanced out, yeah. Something tells me they're going to be spending time balancing out characters anyway. Though- I think the shadow slow down is probably just stupid, either it'd have too much of an effect or not enough. Perhaps it could slightly reduce the enemies damage for as long as the shadow effect is present (which is only a second or two anyway). It wouldn't break the simplicity of the game at all. It's not really that difficult of a concept, and really wouldn't actually change gameplay to a great degree.
Don't say no one really cares about elemental effects, it's just... obviously untrue, and therefore a stupid thing to say. I started this thread because I cared about it, people responded because they cared about it.
What would link elemental effects to RPGs would be strategizing and figuring out which attack would be against which enemy. The effects would be the same to everyone, so it isn't an RPG-esque problem at all. Again, it wouldn't change the strategy of the game much.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

. . . I don't see how balancing would be any harder than it already is. It's not like certain characters would be weaker against certain elements. I'm not proposing the characters being exactly the same with these added effects- Duh, that would obviously change balance. But, if you lessened the initial damage of fire attacks then the real difference would be that the fireballs could (barely) damage clumps of enemies instead of individuals.

Sir,i laugh at your folly.So,you are basicaly saying that the damage initial from the fire ball will be reduced so that the burn damage will come to an equilibrium of damage as if it were a regular fire ball?Ok,just speaking hypothetically,if the fire ball were to do as much damage as a regular non burn fire ball,then what would be the purpose?Why on earth would you want it to take longer to inflict 6%-7% damage upon an enemy?Just so it can look realistic?

I would rather have a fireball. . .

Contact=6% damage

rather than. . .

Contact=3%>5%>6%

Besides... camping? Camping doesn't work now, why would adding these effects change that?
Things like pikachu getting infinate combos obviously would have to be balanced out, yeah. Something tells me they're going to be spending time balancing out characters anyway.

Camping doesn't work? You obviously never played a competative Samus have you?

And you don't relize that balancing things such as elemental attacks takes more time to balance.Here s how they design character movesets.Each characters moves must be tested on every character after they finish the neccessary configurations,so for Example:Mario's A punch,that move must be used on every character to examine:how much knockback it does on each character,how ot effects their trajectory,and how it effects their weight via distance.Now..when you add these elemental effects,they will have diffirent effects on diffirent characters,and all of these factors must be ooken into consideration.And depending on the multitude of elemental attacks per character,it can consume alot of time,just to add nifty feature.Even adding a scratch on Mario's clothing during battle is a difficult task...

Though- I think the shadow slow down is probably just stupid, either it'd have too much of an effect or not enough. Perhaps it could slightly reduce the enemies damage for as long as the shadow effect is present (which is only a second or two anyway). It wouldn't break the simplicity of the game at all. It's not really that difficult of a concept, and really wouldn't actually change gameplay to a great degree.

It isn't a difficult concept,but it is difficult to balance and implement into gameplay,and the brawl team is working hard enough as it is.

Don't say no one really cares about elemental effects, it's just... obviously untrue, and therefore a stupid thing to say. I started this thread because I cared about it, people responded because they cared about it.
What would link elemental effects to RPGs would be strategizing and figuring out which attack would be against which enemy. The effects would be the same to everyone, so it isn't an RPG-esque problem at all. Again, it wouldn't change the strategy of the game much.

Despite your positive attitude..it would.Perhaps you don't understand how much time it takes to design a game,or how difficult it is to implement effects into a game.Well the fact of the matter is that this idea is far fetched and time consuming.

I'm not flaming you,i'm telling you the facts of the matter.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Naw, I wasn't figuring that you were flaming or anything, give or take a "I laugh at your folly." However... your facts really are even less substantiated than mine, with comments like "You don't understand how much time it takes to design a game, or how difficult it is to implement effects" so on so forth. Neither of us are working on this game, and I think it's likely you aren't a Wii programmer either. So... your thoughts on what's feasible or not really doesn't mean much to me.
Regardless- I present this idea as something they'd already be working on. If they aren't, I'm not suggesting in any way that they try to implement it now. Additionally- a change like this would be considerably easier to balance than an attack's strength, as really this effect is extremely universal to every character (assuming there aren't things like my original slowdown effect... that'd be annoying). They did it for ice climbers, they can do it for others.

I really don't think the idea seems far fetched at all, especially considering they've already started implementing it (freezing effects in ice climbers' attacks).

And, since saying this completely negates anything remotely offensive, let me add- I'm not flaming you, I'm telling you the facts of the matter.
Oh wait, no, like you I'm actually just asserting my opinion. Hmm.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Naw, I wasn't figuring that you were flaming or anything, give or take a "I laugh at your folly." However... your facts really are even less substantiated than mine, with comments like "You don't understand how much time it takes to design a game, or how difficult it is to implement effects" so on so forth. Neither of us are working on this game, and I think it's likely you aren't a Wii programmer either. So... your thoughts on what's feasible or not really doesn't mean much to me.

For one,i may not design the Wii nor the games on it,but i have been able to study and understand graphic design.As stated,Sakurai is creating this game with an emphasis on balance of characters,and it is only natural that some of these effects will be implemented towards certain characters,and it is only natural that some of the effects will become better than others(Unless taken the time to balance).In smash bros. even the slightest edge in battle can turn a 1 on 1 match to a 1 sided slaughter,as you can see with Fox and his reflector(The shine),which has the ability to give him a deadly infinate.

So knowing that,even a slight decrease in speed,or an increase in hit lag can unbalance the game.The only supporting possible way to implement elemental effects is to make the elements have little to no effect.As in SSBM,IC's have the ability to posible freeze an opponent.But as you may notice,they have little to no effect upon the enemy,as an opponent can break free of the ice in a mear second.And in some cases immediatly.The only way i can see elemental effects make it into brawl is if they had little effect.Other than that,it would be hard to implement.

Regardless- I present this idea as something they'd already be working on. If they aren't, I'm not suggesting in any way that they try to implement it now. Additionally- a change like this would be considerably easier to balance than an attack's strength, as really this effect is extremely universal to every character (assuming there aren't things like my original slowdown effect... that'd be annoying). They did it for ice climbers, they can do it for others.

Well,if i understand correctly,the IC's freeze effects were weak,so you basically want the effects to be weak? If so,i misunderstood what you said,and i an agree to a slight effect,as long as it doesn't cause any further unbalance.

I really don't think the idea seems far fetched at all, especially considering they've already started implementing it (freezing effects in ice climbers' attacks).

And, since saying this completely negates anything remotely offensive, let me add- I'm not flaming you, I'm telling you the facts of the matter.
Oh wait, no, like you I'm actually just asserting my opinion. Hmm.

Like wise.I understand now.So can we cease these arguments?=D

 

[Red Exodus]

I don't agree, then characters with minimum elemental capabilities will be screwed while people that use pokemon like Pikachu can spam electric attacks until their effect screws their opponent up.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Yeah- I definitely think the effects would be extremely minimal, to the effect of iceclimbers' freezing.

And, that is why I don't think pikachu would be able to screw up characters. I don't think effects would be stackable, so spamming electric attacks wouldn't be any more effective than just one. And, for easy to do electic attacks... the effects really wouldnt' do anything more than they already do, just to keep it balanced.
So, keep things minimal, and keep things balanced. Sounds dandy to me.

 

[Red Exodus]

Ok, I thought you meant the effects would be 'pwnage', lol. I agree now.

 

[2l82masterb8]

Even though I can agree that elements would be nice to have, this is ssb. This isn't some kind of RPG, all you try to do is beat the **** out of each other. Not to mention, the ice climbers down b attack did freeze opponents, even if it was only for a split second

 

[Itchi]

That absolutely is a brilliant idea with the fire thing and all!

 

[boricuaboy]

I like the idea & there should be poison but i dont think this would happen any ways but i wish it did then i could use a character without elemental effects then u can brag when u win.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dont like the idea...

Question though : Doesn't eletricity already stun you? I know fire does nothing but Ive noticed that attacks like falcons knee and fox's shine are harder to get out of and it seems like you are stunned longer, and lets not forget falcos shl... lightning seems to be associated with stun its the only pattern ive picked up on.

 

[Cojiro]

I think this is a really innovative idea, but talking about its worth over several seconds is going too far IMO. If each effect worked for just over a second I think it could work without making "shock-spam" or "fire-spam" broken.

Minute additions are fine, no serious DOT action, and this would be so cool.
Imagine Mewtwo (If he gets back) being able so micro stun for an extra couple of frames, that would help out his crippling lack of speed.

EDIT: YES, BRING BACK X-RAY!

 

[Volrec]

This is one of the most beautiful ideas I've ever seen on the Brawl Boards, I like it.

Here's how I would have it..

Fire- 1% damage ever 2 seconds someone is on fire(because 1% every 1 seconds is O-D), and damages characters who are known for Ice a little extra more(1ish 2ish). Also, they should be on fire as long as the severity of the attack. someone could hit and run camp fireballs with mario. The fire palm should have 3 seconds, with the fireball having less then a second
Thunder= absoulutely nothing. Having you freeze for a frame is broken. All we need is the X-Ray effect.
Water= have em play a LITTLE bit slower, have them have darker color schemes, and drip with water as someone said. Will dry off in a couple seconds.
Shadow= I have no clue, actually. I'll go with "move slower on this one" like everyone else"
Ice- No change, leave same.

 

[boricuaboy]

If mr game & watch came back he could use his forward be and burn freeze and stun them with electricity

 

[dotdotdot!]

To people who think that this would unbalance the game. I don't know about that.

I mean, sure, on the wrong character this could prove disastrous. Fox, Sheik, Falco, and other really strong characters should probably not have access to this little buff, but as long as the right characters gain the benefits, it would be useful for actually balancing characters who are slightly deficient. Take Bowser for example, Giving him the fire thing could potentially make him a stronger character and bring him up to par with the rest of the cast. Or how about Mewtwo. I don't know if I like the idea of shadow effecting speed, but it would certainly be useful in making Mewtwo a stronger character in the long run.

I admit, this isn't something to just throw around willy-nilly. That'll make people mad, but for a couple characters this could be a good tool to help balance it out.

 

[whitekirby]

I agree with phoenix fire little additions like this do take up time and don't make the game much more funner. And yes I do make games. They're okay games. I made a game called super smash uncles it took me forever and it's still kinda bad. Bur it's still a coo idea just kinda pointless and agonizing to program.

 

[Cojiro]

I made a game called super smash uncles

You sir, are what we term in the industry, a HERO.

On topic, little things like things are cool so long as they have a minor impact. There is already a very slight stun in some SSBM moves, I think we're talking of this magnitude rather than several seconds.

 

[dynamic_entry]

On topic, little things like things are cool so long as they have a minor impact. There is already a very slight stun in some SSBM moves, I think we're talking of this magnitude rather than several seconds.

agreed. anything more than a real short time for these moves would be crappy. i like this idea though, especially if u get wet u become like luigi...he truly is, for the gamblin' man!

also, mr blue chicken, the quote in your sig is funny as hell! nipples indeed.

 

[Solid_Sneak]

Good idea, but it would be absolutely rediculous in a normal smash mode. It should definately be a different game mode, not the default.

If it were default, that would just be totally imba. Slowing opponents? That's just about the worst thing that could happen to a char, even if it's by a little. And even if the opposer does have a (example) 'flame DOT' thing, it doesn't matter since they're constantly being slowed; they won't hit a skilled player.

Regardless, the fact is that the idea is totally imba. It would be difficult if not impossible for them to balance it out properly. But still, as I said, great idea for an alternate game mode.

 

[Phaazoid]

not a bad idea
i would like the inclusion of this