(Editorial) A Case for Customs: What We Can Learn from Smaller Competitive Communities

Have any of you guys ever heard of Team Fortress 2?

Of course you have. Everyone who's been into gaming for any significant amount of time has heard of TF2. Its arguably one of the most addictive online shooters out there, and its built up a momentous fanbase over it's almost ten years of existence. Chances are if you haven't played it, you've at least seen it, and acquired a significant level of knowledge through osmosis alone.

But did you know TF2 has a really hardcore competitive community?

Who would've thought, right? And it isn't just a few guys getting together every couple of weeks to play teams: we're talking thousands of people, multiple leagues, ranking ladders and a variety of game modes - the most popular of which is Highlander, a 9v9 mode where only one player is allowed per class. In this mode, each team is forced to display not only which has the best players in their respective aspect of the game, but also which has the best synergy and ability to strategize in the moment.

Of course, turning what was originally imagined as a casual, "play for fun" game into a competitive experience wasn't easy: several of the maps and game-modes in TF2 just aren't fun to watch or play at a higher level, becoming frustratingly unbalanced in favor of certain classes or agonizingly slow once organized teams are brought into the mix. Because of this, Leagues usually only use a handful of the existing game modes and pick out a few of the existing maps, even going as far as to customize some of them to better suit competitive play.

Sound familiar?

Unlockables are another point of contention for competitive players, and the way they handle this is what I find most interesting. For those not in the know, TF2 allows its players to create custom loadouts for each of their classes by equipping them with a variety of unlockable weapons. Not only does this give players an extra layer of personalization, it also makes classes more viable for situations where they would otherwise struggle. They're referred to as "sidegrades", since they're not meant to be an improvement over the stock weapons, but tools to be used by players in case their classes' default arsenal isn't sufficient.

For the most part, these weapons are loved by the community: besides adding a new layer of complexity to the game, they also make some of the classes straight up more fun to play. But seeing how the game is balanced around chaotic 12v12 play, some of them become straight upgrades to their default counterparts when brought to Highlander. This causes the problem of not only having an element in the game that has little to no counterplay, but also eliminating all variety in weapon choices by having a "superior" option above the rest.

How do competitive leagues get around this? Simple: they ban said weapons. Before the beginning of each competitive season, most leagues will allow their users to vote on which weapons they think should be taken out of/put back into rotation. This helps keep the game balanced in a way that keeps the community happy while also fomenting discussion amongst players (especially from top-level players to people in lower divisions) to come to a consensus as to which weapons should and shouldn't be allowed.

Of course, I'm not just saying we should blindly copy this system for Smash 4, but I feel it gives us something to think about. Customs have been a source of controversy for the community ever since the game was released, and the arguments and feelings for each side are so strong most people have decided to drop the issue altogether. After all, why risk creating a huge split in the community (and alienating most competitive players while we're at it) when Smash 4 works perfectly fine as it is?

Although the mindset is reasonable, I do believe we as a scene are doing ourselves a huge disservice by not at least discussing ways in which we could make customs work for competitive. “The Custom Moveset Project” proposes an alternative not unlike the one the TF2 community uses: it’s one of the many options worth checking out, and the amount of support it has gotten proves that there’s a part of the community that wants to see this happen.

For a lot of players, customs as a whole may seem unnecessary, but I feel we owe it to ourselves to think about what they could contribute to tournament level play, what they could do to benefit our scene, and whether or not we really want to risk missing out on those benefits for fear of trying something new.

 

Actual competitive TF2 player here; this article is simply wrong.

While highlander is the "most popular" form of competitive TF2, it is by no means the most competitive. The actual competitive scene is in 6v6; this is the format that has crowd-funded multiple international LANs. And 6v6 is very different from Highlander.

First off, most non-stock weapons are banned. Until fairly recently in the game's history (2-3 years ago), the European scene banned all unlocks sans two or three deemed crucial. 6v6 has actually mirrored melee far more than any continuously updated game has the right to; the map pool has remained nearly constant, team compositions have remained the same since 2008 (similar to a character tier list), and no new weapons have been adopted fully into play since 2013 (excepting those which are buffed and then nerfed shortly afterward).

TF2 is honestly a very solid argument against allowing character variants.

 

If someone holds a major with customs, and nothing bad happens, then I'll be totally fine with it. Until then, I'm with Zero and a lot of the other players who got top 8 at evo. Customs are dumb and we shouldn't be getting used to them.

 

Depth is the amount of options a game has to offer, not complicated button presses. Customs increase the amount of things possible (which you just said and I quote," having a variety of different options for every situation only complicates the meta"). Customs aren't bad at all honestly, it's just that unlocking them and getting together a universal rule set (that still haven't even happened yet) has diminished the look of customs by the public, which is a shame since customs really enhance the amount of play styles that are available in the game.

The two flaws that keeps customs from being used globally right now is that's unlocking them is beyond a hassle and we've came too far now. Everything too developed towards the current rule set and I doubt that's going to change.

You're supposed to balance depth with complexity. Minimum Complexity for maximum depth. Sure, customs would add depth. But they would also add unreal complexity. Vs what we have now which is a pretty good amount of depth and borderline too much complexity as is.

We shouldn't add customs because all the complexity will scare people away.

 

If someone holds a major with customs, and nothing bad happens, then I'll be totally fine with it. Until then, I'm with Zero and a lot of the other players who got top 8 at evo. Customs are dumb and we shouldn't be getting used to them.

Be sure to tune in for the customs tournament at Glitch on Saturday then (VGBootCamp).

 

I don't know what depth is and will keep using the word like it's going to be there if we turn on customs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU

I'll just leave this here. Come back when you know what you're talking about.

 

Unfortunately, with the meta as young as it is, everyone is talking about how to expand it with customs and miis and whatnot and it's getting really annoying really fast.

 

can somebody define complexity to me because I'm sure I'm using a far different definition of it than Owlflame or Munomario777 is using.

My definition is what the beginning competitive player has to learn in order to do well.

 

can somebody define complexity to me because I'm sure I'm using a far different definition of it than Owlflame or Munomario777 is using.

My definition is what the beginning competitive player has to learn in order to do well.

Complexity does result in having to learn things, but that's not the entirety of it.

Complexity is, in essence, the amount of different systems present in a game. So for example, custom moves are one of those systems. Complexity also includes, well, how complex those systems are. So a mana system (think PP in Pokémon) where each spell has a different cost, is more complex than one where every spell costs the same amount.

The idea is to minimize complexity, while maximizing depth (the options, strategies, choices, etc presented by complexity). Complexity, in that sense, can be seen as "money" that you use to "buy" depth – you want the biggest bang for your buck. Remember that mana system? While one with a unified cost is simpler (a desirable quality), one with different costs – while more complex – presents a lot more depth. That way you can have more powerful spells cost more mana, presenting interesting choices (e.g. weak, cheap spell vs strong, costly spell).

And just like you can only afford to spend X amount of money, you can't add too much complexity to your game either without it becoming overwhelming and inaccessible. This is the problem with customs: while they add a lot of depth, they also add way too much complexity to be worth it (analogy: a really nice mansion that you cannot afford).

So that's the gist of depth, complexity, and how they're used in games – and how we can apply these fundamentals to make competitive a Smash Bros. a better place.

 

Complexity does result in having to learn things, but that's not the entirety of it.

Complexity is, in essence, the amount of different systems present in a game. So for example, custom moves are one of those systems. Complexity also includes, well, how complex those systems are. So a mana system (think PP in Pokémon) where each spell has a different cost, is more complex than one where every spell costs the same amount.

The idea is to minimize complexity, while maximizing depth (the options, strategies, choices, etc presented by complexity). Complexity, in that sense, can be seen as "money" that you use to "buy" depth – you want the biggest bang for your buck. Remember that mana system? While one with a unified cost is simpler (a desirable quality), one with different costs – while more complex – presents a lot more depth. That way you can have more powerful spells cost more mana, presenting interesting choices (e.g. weak, cheap spell vs strong, costly spell).

And just like you can only afford to spend X amount of money, you can't add too much complexity to your game either without it becoming overwhelming and inaccessible. This is the problem with customs: while they add a lot of depth, they also add way too much complexity to be worth it (analogy: a really nice mansion that you cannot afford).

So that's the gist of depth, complexity, and how they're used in games – and how we can apply these fundamentals to make competitive a Smash Bros. a better place.

How are customs adding too much complexity? How much is too much? How do we know smash isn't already too complex? How do we know we're at the limit? How can smash be at the limit of complexity when there are games more complex than smash while enjoying a great deal of success? How does smash have heaps of complexity when it's game mechanics are simplistic compared to melee?

That's my problem with the arguments that's been delivered since last page and stuff.

 

How are customs adding too much complexity? How much is too much? How do we know smash isn't already too complex? How do we know we're at the limit? How can smash be at the limit of complexity when there are games more complex than smash while enjoying a great deal of success? How does smash have heaps of complexity when it's game mechanics are simplistic compared to melee?

That's my problem with the arguments that's been delivered since last page and stuff.

There are over 400 custom moves. That's a LOT to familiarize yourself with, a lot of added complexity, and a great way to make a game intimidating and inaccessible.

The amount of complexity in a game, and how much is too much, is ultimately quite subjective, personal preference and all – but this is still a lot of the stuff, and I don't think that this will help our scene anyway; worsen it if anything, due to the inaccessibility.

 

If they were all available to unlock right at the beginning with no effort, i'd probably be all for it. Some of the custom moves seem like better replacements and some characters become miles better with them!

But as it stands right now Customs would limit the game to the people with either the right amount of luck/ set of circumstances. If you don't have everything unlocked or the means to unlock them, you're essentially stuck with practicing with what little you have managed to obtain. Meanwhile, somebody else who was either lucky enough or had a 3DS and a cheat device will be able to practice with everything available to them. That just screams "Unfair" to me. And that will scream "Unfair" to everyone who experiences this scenario.

Without customs, everyone has access to the movesets of every character to practice with, making the game much fairer. In regards to DLC, you are able to purchase these on the fly as and when you can afford them, and they cost nowhere near as much as buying a 3DS + Smash + Cheat device (if you are unable to find someone with a cheat system or a 3DS with it all unlocked).

The problem isn't with the moves themselves. The problem lies in the barriers created by the mechanisms in which you obtain them. It's unfair to expect every tournament participating smash player (of any skill level) to want/ be able to put in the level of effort or money required for the provided workarounds. All that will happen is players will just move to another game where the barrier and cost of entry is much lower.

 

Customs aren't terribly hard to unlock, though it is time consuming. The reason why grinding strategies like Dorf + turbo button + Target Blast take so long is that you're not getting a high enough score. Higher scores improve the odds of obtaining new things way beyond the chances of randomly obtaining it an "easy" way.

If you only go out of your way to unlock customs you need to practice against instead of all of them it's that much easier and faster. Maybe unlock all of your main's customs for experimenting with but besides that you can ignore all the trashy ones and the minor improvements and still be prepared enough for tournaments.

 

This article does not give the real facts between the games.

TF2's unlockables are a core part of the gameplay. You need a good weapon to be better than your opponent. Each weapon offers different perk and/or a negative effect. Smash, on the other hand, has the customizables not be a core part of the gameplay. You can be good without customs. In TF2, you can still be good, but much better than before.

 

In TF2, there are only 9 characters to balance loadouts for. In smash 4, we have 51 characters with customs available. TF2 is a first person shooter, while smash 4 is a fighter. These two games are like night and day, and can not be used to justify rulesets for each other.

Keep in mind that the 7 DLC characters do not have customs, and custom rulesets put those characters at a huge disadvantage.

Custom moves are also centralizing and lame. For some characters, customs define the entire play style of the character and the entire rest of the character's move set is neglected in favor of one or two custom moves.

 

Today I was walking through an electronics store in Tokyo and saw some Middle school kids playing the Smash WiiU dispaly model (I asked and apparently they're skipping school to do this because they don't have WiiUs at home). They were actually pretty good. Not quite pro, but definitely competitive. Playing on the display model, there were obviously no customs, DLC, or even unlocked characters. The kids were playing 2-stock Omega-only no-items matches and were kicking ass. I asked them how often they did this, and one of them said "More than we should, but not enough to compete."

And I thought about this topic, and the future of Smash players, and I realized that there is no way that customs will ever work for including new and upcoming talent into the competitive scene.

 

There are over 400 custom moves. That's a LOT to familiarize yourself with, a lot of added complexity, and a great way to make a game intimidating and inaccessible..

Lets just look at Mario for example.

B
1 fireball
2 fireball goes straight
3 huge fireball goes nowhere

>B
1 cape
2 attack cape
3 windbox cape

^B
1 jump punch
2 further jump without the punch
3 no jump big punch

vB
1 fludd
2 fludd now does damage
3 slow strong fludd

If this is hard for someone to memorize, even just with the simple way I worded them, we may be dealing with a 5 year old.

As for everyone else who is talking about one move being used or over centralizing movesets or lame ways to play. DK has been given tools where he doesn't need to spam ^B(which you can get out of). Villager has been fleshed out a lot now and has been proven that aggressive Villager not only does well, but may be the optimal way to play. It is also a possibility that TO's could just simply ban "planking".

 

Lets just look at Mario for example.

B
1 fireball
2 fireball goes straight
3 huge fireball goes nowhere

>B
1 cape
2 attack cape
3 windbox cape

^B
1 jump punch
2 further jump without the punch
3 no jump big punch

vB
1 fludd
2 fludd now does damage
3 slow strong fludd

If this is hard for someone to memorize, even just with the simple way I worded them, we may be dealing with a 5 year old.

As for everyone else who is talking about one move being used or over centralizing movesets or lame ways to play. DK has been given tools where he doesn't need to spam ^B(which you can get out of). Villager has been fleshed out a lot now and has been proven that aggressive Villager not only does well, but may be the optimal way to play. It is also a possibility that TO's could just simply ban "planking".

But then there is the whole mess of determining what is considered planking and what isn't

The point isn't if you can memorize all the customs for one character, that much is easy. But can you do it for all 51? Can everyone else memorize all 12 customs for all 41 characters?

 

But then there is the whole mess of determining what is considered planking and what isn't

Calling @Lazlo_Bananas to handle this for me if you would be so kind.

The point isn't if you can memorize all the customs for one character, that much is easy. But can you do it for all 51? Can everyone else memorize all 12 customs for all 41 characters?

Already have once but since they are not used anymore I have forgotten a few of them but a quick look will easily help me remember. As for everyone else I can't say but it really isn't that hard so I hope they can otherwise alzheimers seems to have set in early.

 

To grow our scene, we rely on getting two types of players into competitive play: those who play Smash 4 casually, and those who play other games but not Smash 4. Casual players will definitely be turned off by the high BtE, and those looking for a new game to play will likely turn to other, easier-to-enter scenes. Yes, it's possible to memorize all the customs... but I don't think that a lot of newcomers will actually want to spend hours upon hours unlocking and memorizing and studying four hundred custom moves just to get started in the scene.

We want as many new players as possible, and customs aren't going to do anything to help that.

 

The point isn't if you can memorize all the customs for one character, that much is easy. But can you do it for all 51? Can everyone else memorize all 12 customs for all 41 characters?

If I have learned the minimum of 4 skills each of the 111 heroes in Dota have, their approximate cooldown, what they do, their damage and about how much mana they cost, I expect even the slowest learner to learn all these custom moves in little to no time. They are so simple most of the time. It's 99% of the time just a slightly different version of the special move with one thing buffed and another nerfed, such as a longer upB recovery but with a worse hitbox and vice versa. If knowing this is too much then maybe you should reconsider if you should compete at all.

 

[deleting]

 

If I have learned the minimum of 4 skills each of the 111 heroes in Dota have, their approximate cooldown, what they do, their damage and about how much mana they cost, I expect even the slowest learner to learn all these custom moves in little to no time. They are so simple most of the time. It's 99% of the time just a slightly different version of the special move with one thing buffed and another nerfed, such as a longer upB recovery but with a worse hitbox and vice versa. If knowing this is too much then maybe you should reconsider if you should compete at all.

/thread

 

If I have learned the minimum of 4 skills each of the 111 heroes in Dota have, their approximate cooldown, what they do, their damage and about how much mana they cost, I expect even the slowest learner to learn all these custom moves in little to no time. They are so simple most of the time. It's 99% of the time just a slightly different version of the special move with one thing buffed and another nerfed, such as a longer upB recovery but with a worse hitbox and vice versa. If knowing this is too much then maybe you should reconsider if you should compete at all.

I'm sure you're having fun stroking your ego, but you don't need to be a condescending **** about it.

 

I'm sure you're having fun stroking your ego, but you don't need to be a condescending **** about it.

If knowing this is too much then maybe you should reconsider if you should compete at all

 

Just thought of another argument from someone who plays competitively.

Eventually there will be too many viable characters (Better for games with smaller rosters) and learning all those matchups will get annoying. Did you know that, before a tournament, I practice against every character from S to the end of B tier. Past that, practicing against you is a waste of time and I'm probably not gonna see you in a tournament. As it stands now, it takes two days before a tournament for me to be ready for whatever character I'm gonna run into. That's already way too long. I don't want it to be even longer than that and also all the different combinations that go into the same characters. I just don't want that. At lower levels, and from a spectator level customs are fine. Most big players ****ing hate them like Zero, Nairo and M2K.

 

This post makes a huge mistake: it compares two games which have no commonalities. The closest game to Smash is Street Fighter, and that doesn't have customs. We're comparing apples to cars here; they aren't common in anyway.