Edgeguarding

[Mocha Boy]

Hey guys looking for some general edgeguarding/ledgeguarding tips and sequences. I'm fairly fine going off stage when I find it appropriate but my main issue is letting them get back on the stage too often while I'm there trying to pick the best move to put out/ guess or react to their get up. Against any character, just some moves you guys like to use/what they cover. All that jazz. They can be great baits and option coverages, or gimmicks as well. I.e far back fire breath so they can't roll past on ledge, d tilt before they grab, occasionally bowser bomb. Thanks.

 

[Tri10]

Well I suppose if we're talking favorite edgeguards I'd give it to weak F-Smash released a split second before the invincibility wears off.
Generally though, if they're pretty deep I suggest waiting till they get in your zone, which actually is pretty big and stretches off the actual stage. D-Tilt and F-Tilt can be considered for the two frame punish at the ledge, but don't expect a KO every time. A well spaced and correctly timed Fortress covers a lot of ledge options, same as D-Smash with different spacing.
If they go high there's obviously F-Air and B-Air if you can get to them. Of course as a Bowser main...the D-Air spike is your most evil option.
If they go low and you want to attempt to send them farther, F-Air is surprisingly helpful. I know it might not seem safe but a runoff FF F-Air is quick, can KO at the right percentages, and can easily be recovered from. There's also B-Air for a stage spike if you're feeling up to it.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

The cautious Fire Breath should really only be considered in the case of sword-wielders and maybe projectile users due to the ease they can out-prioritize you. Yoshi counts as both for purposes of priority and annoyance at the ledge.

After that, it depends on how dominating the character is off-stage. Bowser is very middle of the road when it comes to his off-stage tools. This is better than it sounds. In most cases, you should be looking to wall your opponent with the threat of a FAir, UAir, or BAir. Which tool you get to use largely depends on your opponent. FAir is more effective for sudden aggression (big hit box, disjointed). UAir is great for catching characters that double jump or attempt to send out a projectile at a trajectory you can avoid by traveling under. BAir is extremely effective if the opponent either doesn't have a response or makes an execution error (ie. mistiming a jump or air dodge). BAir is also easy to aim if you grab the ledge first for positioning.

In the case where you need to just keep calm and maintain stage control, your go-to-options should vary between down-angled FTilt, DTilt, Bowser Bomb, ledge trump, pivot grab, or a SH aerial in case they jump from the ledge. Be aware that Bombing to the ledge is an all-in gamble, as it will reverse your positions if you fail to hit. Of course, if they (can) challenge you, try experimenting with Shield -> USmash or Fortress. In the case of weird things like Ike's Aether, you could even experiment with just double jumping into a ledge canceled Bomb. This sounds dumb, but most things that work with Bowser are kinda dumb.

For an idea of which characters dominate off-stage, ask yourself if the opponent has a significant mobility option (ZSS, Sheik), super armor (Charizard, Yoshi), is named Jigglypuff, or possesses a way to outspace you with high priority rising hit-boxes (Ness, MK, Yoshi).

 

[Jerodak]

Spaced firebreath: Covers basically everything except waiting (unless they have an exposed hurtbox while hanging on the ledg) but loses effectiveness as it shrinks so smart opponents will wait you out if you over use this.

Fortress: Also covers everything except waiting, drift towards center stage to make sure you cover the roll and to increase the chance they launch back offstage.

Down smash:.motionless Fortress with no influence on launch direction but more k.o potential and better disjoints.

Upsmash: it cannot quite cover all the get-up options simply because it's a bit too small. It's still useful because it can be done out of a run or out of shield.

Foward smash: depends on what you're trying to do. As listed above, timing it to hit the ledge as invulnerability wears off can work if they don't try to get up. You can also hit them as they try to grab the ledge for a difficult but rather strong snapback though you will be punished if you miss.

My personally prefered use of Fsmash is to cover ledge get-up options since it can cover almost everything if spaced right. No matter how you use it, you're talking about high risk high reward. Don't try it unless you're certain.

Ledge trump: A universal option that beats waiting, use in tandem with other options to create a 50/50.

Forward tilt (angled down): a five frame active hitbox with intangibility through the arm for the five frames it's active. Makes for easy snapbacks and keeps dtilt fresh for when it'll k.o

Down tilt: slightly harder snapback option. Good for ending stocks fairly early. (By the way, a snapback is just when you hit an opponent during the two frames of vulnerability of their ledge snap animation.)

Down air: Use this to control "The Dunk Zone" that I wrote about some where in the meta game thread. Also, you can use it offstage by trading with other attacks (typically an up b) or as an air dodge punish (If you're really bold an know how those work)

That's my two cents, hope it helped!

 

[S_B]

I'd suggest watching @KingKong_ad 's recent video which includes TONS of awesome edgeguarding with Bowser:

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I really do recommend @KingKong_ad's video above. Study each scenario in terms of "what other options could Bowser have gone with, and why did this one work" or "what was the risk in performing that move" or "what information did Bowser have before attempting that option". Each one serves a valuable case study. Bowser doesn't have just one move that covers everything, so it's really the player's job to guage what is best in terms of risk and reward. Certain matchups also lend to more particular choices. Sheik, for instance, recovers from too far away to hit with run off Fair, and only has 0-2 frames of invulnerability when snapping to the ledge. So you might think offstage stuff is objectively worse than staying back to cover ledge options or performing ledge trumps. But against ROB, Pit, Duck Hunt, some characters have no hitbox at all when using recovery moves, so hitting them is just a matter of being at the right place at the right time. Furthermore, there are recoveries in which Bowser can trade with Dair. The aforementioned video also adds Mario to the list, must have missed him. Getting the Dair Dunk and not losing your stock is just about the best you could hope for, but a lot could go wrong there too.

Getting them off the stage in the first place is tricky. Bowser's strongest moves are almost all vertical kill options, so you'll be attacking targets above you more than targets recovering. Jab 1 +2 has a great angle for getting people offstage, and is Bowser's safest move on block and for poking. Stray hits of Ftilt and Dtilt also have appropriate angles. These are key to putting your opponent in positions to take early stocks with runnoff Fair and Bair.

For covering ledge options, I'm a fan of standing as far as I can on the edge of the stage once they've grabbed it. Then I wait for their ledge option before inputting Fortress. Fortress itself doesn't really kill, but it gets them back out there for a harder edgeguard opportunity. Plus, it's guaranteed to hit people during their vulnerability frames for every ledge choice, except for ledge roll. You have to use Fortress' ability to move in order to catch that option. I also have a finger over shield, because what I'm really doing is baiting a ledge let go > Double jump aerial. Bowser can shield that and drop shield for a Dtilt punish. It's a pretty devious way of baiting the opponent to do one of their 5 options.

 

[Big Sean]

The one option that J Jerodak didn't mention is bowser bomb. There a ton of options that bowser bomb covers. Basically anyone not immediately rushing to grab invincibility will be hit. Even people who are rushing to grab the ledge from above, can often be scooped with the rising hit of bowser bomb. If you whiff your timing and get slightly after they grab the ledge, then there's even an edge guard opportunity!

 

[Mocha Boy]

Wow, thanks guys for all the advice and lists of moves and options! That video was disgusting and I really need to look into dair as i rarely use it. Some of the footstool and Nair stuff was neato too. I'll make sure to start using the down angled f tilt to catch the "snapback" as that seems very nice. Thanks again.