Edgeguarding

[RobTurv]

Say I'm playing on Hyrule as Falcon coming back to the level after getting thrown by Ness at about 50% is there anything I can do to prevent getting stomped or hit with the yo-yo?

I'm guessing there is nothing about getting stomped if the other person is good enough to get you, since Falcon's up B can't dodge very well, but what if I get hit with the tip of the yo-yo, is there anyway to DI out of that so that I end up back on the level or close to it?

I can DI the yo-yo when coming from underneath it, but never if I get hit with the tip. Is it even possible to DI back onto the level when you get hit with the tip or am I just hoping for the impossible?

 

[Wenbobular]

You need some freaking ridiculous horizontal DI to manage to hit the ledge if you get hit with the yo-yo at the longest extension.
If the throw is at the very edge and with your up-b you JUST make the ledge, it's very unlikely you'll make it back.

 

[Zen Yore]

Or just stop playing throw dummies.

 

[Wenbobular]

Or just stop playing throw dummies.

The question is relevent whoever you're playing, although there isn't really too much you can do if you get hit at an odd angle off the stage.

 

[RobTurv]

Or just stop playing throw dummies.

Not at all, obviously a throw is good from there so why not do it?

 

[Leech]

It's possible if the Ness messes up.. other then that, u have to be very lucky or excellent timing and even then you might not be able to..

 

[NixxxoN]

Yes it is possible. With Falcon's Up+B.
Its difficult though. I once was doing the same edgeguarding with a Falcon, when he hit his up+b just a little down to the ledge and he went through the space between the yoyo at full extent and Ness himself and he could do the falcon dive to me. Difficult indeed, little chances to succeed

 

[Winston]

Yes it is possible. With Falcon's Up+B.
Its difficult though. I once was doing the same edgeguarding with a Falcon, when he hit his up+b just a little down to the ledge and he went through the space between the yoyo at full extent and Ness himself and he could do the falcon dive to me. Difficult indeed, little chances to succeed

That means the ness messed up.

You can't get around it unless you get the lucky DI that sends you over the edge (quite frankly I don't know if ANYONE can do that consistently on purpose).


Welcome to ssb... don't get hit xD

Seriously though, that's what it comes down to. If you get grabbed near the edge by ness or pikachu, you're dead. But falcon has his own advantages =)

 

[NixxxoN]

That means the ness messed up.

You can't get around it unless you get the lucky DI that sends you over the edge

No I didnt mess up, i put the yoyo in the right place and the right time but falcon just got away within that space, I dont know if you understant what I mean...

 

[Zen Yore]

Lawlz thats why I hate playing Pika or Ness. They have gay voices and throw all long of a match.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Lawlz thats why I hate playing Pika or Ness. They have gay voices and throw all long of a match.

lol **** sux?


Anyway to the thread starter..the only thing i can tell you is remember Falcons dive has an extra

If you mash in the direction of the NEss (or whom ever) when you are getting close it them, the Falcon dive kinda "sucks you in" to them...thats the only thing i can see helping you in this situation....and even this wont really do anythign for Dair =.=

 

[Winston]

No I didnt mess up, i put the yoyo in the right place and the right time but falcon just got away within that space, I dont know if you understant what I mean...

I don't know if you understand that falcon doesn't sweetspot before he puts most of his body above his head... meaning above the edge. Meaning that you can't escape without the lucky over-the-edge DI.

 

[NixxxoN]

I don't know if you understand that falcon doesn't sweetspot before he puts most of his body above his head... meaning above the edge. Meaning that you can't escape without the lucky over-the-edge DI.

lol yes I do and you didnt understand me obviously because that Falcon didnt sweetspot, he did a Falcon dive to me.

 

[Surri-Sama]

lol yes I do and you didnt understand me obviously because that Falcon didnt sweetspot, he did a Falcon dive to me.

I hate to say this but, your right hahaha....

there are frames where you can falcon dive, and connect to the edge without getting hit by the yoyo...but let me tell you its hard...and yea...its hard...Ant-D wanna do some frame work to prove me wrong or rght?

 

[NixxxoN]

I hate to say this but, your right hahaha....

there are frames where you can falcon dive, and connect to the edge without getting hit by the yoyo...but let me tell you its hard...and yea...its hard...Ant-D wanna do some frame work to prove me wrong or rght?

Yeah its so hard that It saw it only once in hundreds of matches of me Ness vs a Falcon. Its probably not very hard to do it planned. The hardest is to do it in a match.

 

[Wenbobular]

Winston's (Gustav_Wind) point is that if you're sneaking in with the up-b in between Ness's yo-yo at the fullest extent, the Ness messed up his edgeguarding.
His question was not "can I use up-b to grab the ledge when Ness's yo-yo is extended the fullest," but rather was more along the lines of "can I make it back if the Ness doesn't mess up?"
Back to the original question, I've only managed to reverse ledge DI a couple times in my SSB career, so it's hard, but not impossible to do if you get yo-yo'd. Every so often I manage to DI the edge so I fly straight up, which usually gets me spiked anyways...heh.

 

[Winston]

Ok, so my point is:

After a throw from the edge at any reasonable percentage by ness, there is a correct distance from the edge and timing (based on the situation) that he can throw the yo-yo so that it will hit falcon, falcon will not go in the gap, and ness will not get falcon dived.

 

[NixxxoN]

Ok, so my point is:

After a throw from the edge at any reasonable percentage by ness, there is a correct distance from the edge and timing (based on the situation) that he can throw the yo-yo so that it will hit falcon, falcon will not go in the gap, and ness will not get falcon dived.

err..... obviously but there's also the possibility I explained that answers the thread's question.

 

[Wenbobular]

err..... obviously but there's also the possibility I explained that answers the thread's question.

The possibility you were talking about was a screwup on the Ness's part, unless you wrote something else which has thus far eluded me.

 

[NixxxoN]

The possibility you were talking about was a screwup on the Ness's part, unless you wrote something else which has thus far eluded me.

LOL no! Its not exactly a Ness screwup, its more like a Falcon spot on.

 

[Wenbobular]

It's more like Ness mistimed the freaking yo-yo.

 

[NixxxoN]

Ness mistimed.. or Falcon timed perfectly.... it depends... I think its not ness fault, you can edgeguard all the other characters with the same position with the yoyo besides Falcon for that trick.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Winston's (Gustav_Wind) point is that if you're sneaking in with the up-b in between Ness's yo-yo at the fullest extent, the Ness messed up his edgeguarding.
His question was not "can I use up-b to grab the ledge when Ness's yo-yo is extended the fullest," but rather was more along the lines of "can I make it back if the Ness doesn't mess up?"
Back to the original question, I've only managed to reverse ledge DI a couple times in my SSB career, so it's hard, but not impossible to do if you get yo-yo'd. Every so often I manage to DI the edge so I fly straight up, which usually gets me spiked anyways...heh.

so basicly , your saying the question should be...

"If Ness throws Falcon at 50%, and hits him with his edgegaurd attack( yoyo Dsmash or Usmash) can he not get hit by it"


i dont get it o.o;;

 

[ant-d]

From your example, there's basically nothing Falcon can do anyway.
If he does jump-falcon punch-falcon dive

then Ness can down smash at the same time no matter what he decides to do (after the jump-falcon punch)

if it's too confusing think of it this way

after the jump-falcon punch there's a frame (actually multiple frames) where ness can down smash and always hit falcon. so ness can always use this frame, even if falcon decides to:
up+b as soon as possible (high) [89-99]
up+b as late as possible (low) [89-99]
up+b anywhere in between [89-99]

the numbers in [*] show the frame where ness can attack and hit falcon (this is just to make it easier to understand)

what this means is falcon cannot do anything 'right', the decision is placed soley on ness. this is because ness can hit him 100% of the time (given the same frame of attack) no matter what falcon decides to do. there's no such thing as falcon timing it perfectly in this example we have seen that the timing for ness never changes (frames 89-99 always result in a hit), given what falcon decides to do.

remember that this is only for the example he gave [50% thrown from the edge, with ness standing 3 body spaces from it]

maybe this is what the poster meant

 

[Surri-Sama]

From your example, there's basically nothing Falcon can do anyway.
If he does jump-falcon punch-falcon dive

then Ness can down smash at the same time no matter what he decides to do (after the jump-falcon punch)

if it's too confusing think of it this way

after the jump-falcon punch there's a frame (actually multiple frames) where ness can down smash and always hit falcon. so ness can always use this frame, even if falcon decides to:
up+b as soon as possible (high) [89-99]
up+b as late as possible (low) [89-99]
up+b anywhere in between [89-99]

the numbers in [*] show the frame where ness can attack and hit falcon (this is just to make it easier to understand)

what this means is falcon cannot do anything 'right', the decision is placed soley on ness. this is because ness can hit him 100% of the time (given the same frame of attack) no matter what falcon decides to do. there's no such thing as falcon timing it perfectly in this example we have seen that the timing for ness never changes (frames 89-99 always result in a hit), given what falcon decides to do.

remember that this is only for the example he gave [50% thrown from the edge, with ness standing 3 body spaces from it]

maybe this is what the poster meant

hah well this is kinda what i ment by prove me wrong or right...

i was assuming that if you forced the Ness to Dsmash or Usmash early, you might be able to grab the edge...but what Wenbob was saying kinda made no sense

"how do you not get hit if ness does his attack right and hits you " o.o;;

 

[ant-d]

or maybe nixxxon meant this, since he also said 'any percent'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Bi7HE0fOQ

the first part shows that the hitbox is only on the yoyo
the second part shows that falcon dive is of course fast enough to get through

 

[Wenbobular]

Learn to read Surri my post wasn't that nonsensical
Ant-d is haxing!

 

[NixxxoN]

or maybe nixxxon meant this, since he also said 'any percent'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Bi7HE0fOQ

the first part shows that the hitbox is only on the yoyo
the second part shows that falcon dive is of course fast enough to get through

Yeah, thats it :bigthumbu

Really hard to see it on a match because

a) if you do a yo-yo edgeguard, you shouldnt be that close to the ledge
b) theres a very few frames where Falcon can go through the yoyo extent

 

[Nintendude]

That means the ness messed up.

You can't get around it unless you get the lucky DI that sends you over the edge (quite frankly I don't know if ANYONE can do that consistently on purpose).

I sort of can actually. You need to have your up-B bring you a tiny bit above the ledge (aka don't sweetspot) and DI down and into the stage.

 

[Winston]

Say I'm playing on Hyrule as Falcon coming back to the level after getting thrown by Ness at about 50% is there anything I can do to prevent getting stomped or hit with the yo-yo?

I'm guessing there is nothing about getting stomped if the other person is good enough to get you, since Falcon's up B can't dodge very well, but what if I get hit with the tip of the yo-yo, is there anyway to DI out of that so that I end up back on the level or close to it?

The bolded parts were what I was responding to. I didn't think he was asking about being able to slip through the space between the yo-yo and the edge...

ant-d specified that his analysis was only for one specific scenario, but I'm pretty sure there's a broad range of percents and situations for which, like he said, the "right" or "wrong" action is solely ness' to make, not on falcon's.