Edgeguarding idea

[Schwamus]

disclaimer: i don't play Marth, just Samus/ Ganon i just had an idea today

So while watching Plup vs PewPewU I thought of an interesting idea to edgeguard w/ Marth / Roy against Samus. Why not run off + counter when she is recovering. If you time it right, you should be able to cover both if she zairs to edge (in which case you snipe out her tether) or if she upBs because both put out a hitbox. Or, if she doesn't tether, you are still in a good position to get back to ledge and cover from there.

Thoughts from people who know way more about this character than me?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Counter with Roy I imagine not working because he cannot even hold the ledge and use Bair and 2nd jump without dying if he goes too low. Not to mention the Zair hit is rather weak and his knockback on counter scales with the move that hit him. Countering a jab (does no knockback or hitstun) and likewise with Zair I think.

The other issue with doing this is how will you cover tech attempts? Counter will often hit people into the wall rather than away.Those are several weaknesses from Roy. Marth inherits the counter into wall potential issue. Not to mention the fact that if Samus has her air dodge and 2nd jump available she can go very, very low on stages like FD or dreamland and wait. Not really giving you a good window to time to cover UpB (fairly instant) and the slower Zair with her stall methods.

 

[Schwamus]

My thoughts were that the counter isn't going to be the finishing move of the edgeguard, but instead that you could use it to take away her one tether attempt. It definitely is a gimmick, but if you land it it becomes easier to edgeguard Samus once she doesn't have the tether option.

Counter will often hit people into the wall rather than away

I actually did not know that about counter. I guess since it won't knock her far due to how weak zair is it may not be too much of a problem, but still.

I obviously haven't tested this stuff in the lab yet but next chance I get I will try and let you guys know what I find.

 

[Rhino1337]

I have done this myself and I, a not hugely experienced marth, would say if your opponent tends to react quickly and up recover right away, you should simply bait it, wait it out and punish, or react and counter. Off stage countering from a farther distance also works but practicing this to know how far away you can go is crucial because if you successfully get the counter, you lose your double jump and must rely on your up special. If you miss the counter, you can use your double jump to recover. Something I have not tried but may work is if you miss the counter but they are still close to you off stage, you can f air them while double jumping to recovery. A thought I had is if you can quickly get the opponent under the stage like battlefield or FD, you could then run off stage and up special them into the stage for a stage spike. This may be good for a quick kill. Thoughts on that technique?