Edgeguard game even better than we thought?

[⑨ball]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8rpifNUEYo

A lot of things I tested were optimized to use the header spike because I didn't want to risk a reversal on a stage spike. However, apparently the system is much different than previous games and teching is impossible in situations where the hitlag and recoil lag over lap.

This is really important because we have both header and hoops that can cover the 1 frame vulnerability really easily with the latter stage spiking. On top of header cancels buffing our ability to cover the ledge getup and roll we're easily one of the strongest edge guarders in the game.

 

[Chez G.]

What are some edgeguard setups you have in mind?

 

[⑨ball]

Anything you were using before. It's just now we know that wall teching isn't an option when characters are touching the wall.

So for example you're playing Sonic and he goes low. You use upB to cover his spring and as he rises with invincibility and grabs the ledge but gets bopped on the vulnerability frame and gets stage spiked instead of teching.

 

[Chez G.]

I've never really thought of using the hula hoops as an edgeguarding tool. I use Up-B solely for recovery while SS and Header are used for edgeguarding. Well, thanks for the tip.

 

[Kikaioh]

Awesome video, will definitely have to keep the wall-spacing in mind in the future. Hula hoops are a great tool for attacking offstage, esp. since you can weave their movement horizontally back-and-forth (so maybe if you're hugging the wall below an opponent offstage, I think you can weave to their outer side and attack as you recover to try for a stage spike). This actually makes me think some of the surprising hula hoop stage spikes I've had in the past might have been related to the synchronized recoil and hit lag.

That said, I do think some of Wii Fit's edgeguarding was kind of negatively affected by the recent patch with the header ball moving more horizontally and having a longer lifespan (less mixup/options/pressure for attacks from the ledge I think, and increased potential for unintended blocking of SSs). I always felt like her edge game was great, but a bit ways less so after the patch.

 

[Chez G.]

I believe WFT's ledge game with Header is still good after the patch. The ball's new lifespan is probably something to get used to. For instance, sometimes I forget that Robin has a combo throw. Maybe I have better luck, but using Header offstage to edgeguard doesn't really get in the way of other things like using SS.

Speaking of which, on a side note, I use SS and Header in conjunction with each other occasionally. It's just simply cancelling Header, moving back a bit, and launching a fully charged SS. SS will send the ball at around a 30-degree angle while healing and repositioning yourself in the process. Kinda situational for edgeguarding though.

 

[Kikaioh]

Well, it's more than just attacking from the ledge that's problematic with the header changes. The header ball seems to go faster and more horizontal now, which from what I can tell limits her off-stage range a lot more than before. It used to be that you could generally affect the header to shoot at a lower angle depending on how long you waited to hit the ball after pulling it out. This made it so that if both you and the opponent were offstage and you were at a slightly higher position, by varying your distance and height you could safely attack your opponent with the ball (or angle it to ricochet off the side of the stage and hit them) while they were trying to recover. Now that the ball moves more horizontally though, you have to be at the same level as your opponent or the stage itself in order for it to connect, which means that trying to fight with the header offstage is generally more dangerous than it used to be. The fact that you also have to wait longer for the ball to regenerate also means that it's not as reliable for safely stopping fall momentum. And now that the header ball lasts longer, when using it to attack from the ledge you have to wait a bit longer before you can follow it up with an SS, which at least takes away from the pressure she used to have when holding the ledge.

I think instinctually I avoid using a full SS to hit the header since it kinda' feels like a waste, though it's always good to mix things up and do unexpected things like that, so I might try doing it a bit more in the future to see how it works out.

 

[Chez G.]

I've started using Super Hoop to edgeguard now. Stage spikes occur somewhat frquently to gimp some recoveries and when it doesn't, it can link into one of many meteor options Wii Fit such as d-air.