I am having trouble edge guarding, one reason is because I don't want to go out, mess up and lose a stock(working on this now), but another reason is because I dont really know what I should use to edge guard. If they are coming high do i go out and hit with a nair or fair or do i choose to stay on stage and try to read what they do or do i drop down and hog the ledge? I think to much about it and lose a lot of chances to edge guard them. If someone could give a brief explanation of what strategies work the best in most situations that would be super cool, thank you.
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Edge Guarding Problems
- Thread starter Cumbi
- Start date
Gいたん
Smash Apprentice
It sounds like you don't grab ledge enough.
Ledge hogging is one of the most optimal ways to kill and there are a lot of options off of it, so definitely do that. It all depends on the character you're fighting, though, and theres really a lot to say about this.
I've been playing and studying the Sheik boards for a little over a year and this is what I've found to work for me.
Anyone feel free to correct me on anything I've said wrong or with anything that is a better option, it would better the OP and even myself
Spacies:
Falcon:
Sheik:
Marth:
Jigglypuff:
I dont think you really edgeguard puff. You kind of just kill her after racking percentage because she destroys offstage, but needles are an option i guess if you want to poke her while she's off
Peach:
Ice climbers:
I hope this helps any, lmao. This is the first detailed advice i've given but its all personally how i handle top tiers when it comes to edge guarding.
My scene has a variety of low and mid tier characters too so I know those as well if you have any questions about them.
Ledge hogging is one of the most optimal ways to kill and there are a lot of options off of it, so definitely do that. It all depends on the character you're fighting, though, and theres really a lot to say about this.
I've been playing and studying the Sheik boards for a little over a year and this is what I've found to work for me.
Anyone feel free to correct me on anything I've said wrong or with anything that is a better option, it would better the OP and even myself
Spacies:
When Fox is off stage, generally what I do first is I see what position they're at. If they're using their Up B and its above stage and not too far out, you can run off the stage, rising fair, and up b back.
If the Fox/falco is using up B further out and above the stage, grab ledge and wait to react to his angle with a good back air from the ledge. If you don't know how to do those, you have to flick the stick away from the ledge, double jump, and back air. You can space it differently according to how you time your jump.
If Fox is under the stage trying to up b, I usually grab ledge and wait until their Up b is going to hit me, then I fastfall down, immediately double jump nair and fade onto the stage.
What should happen is the back hitbox of your nair will push them back off the stage with some pretty good knockback, depending if you get the stronger hitbox of the nair. It can be repeated and eventually you can just hold ledge for the kill. If you get the softer nair you can still get back into an edgeguard situation i mentioned above, or if
Falco's up B is a lot easier to challenge.
When both Fox and Falco are trying to side b onto stage or ledge, a good thing to do that stuffs that is :
run off ledge and rising nair onto stage.
The nair is a good edge guarding tool for spacies trying to come onto stage because it stays out forever, it will cover their side B's and push them back off stage and then you can react from there.
If the Fox/falco is using up B further out and above the stage, grab ledge and wait to react to his angle with a good back air from the ledge. If you don't know how to do those, you have to flick the stick away from the ledge, double jump, and back air. You can space it differently according to how you time your jump.
If Fox is under the stage trying to up b, I usually grab ledge and wait until their Up b is going to hit me, then I fastfall down, immediately double jump nair and fade onto the stage.
What should happen is the back hitbox of your nair will push them back off the stage with some pretty good knockback, depending if you get the stronger hitbox of the nair. It can be repeated and eventually you can just hold ledge for the kill. If you get the softer nair you can still get back into an edgeguard situation i mentioned above, or if
Falco's up B is a lot easier to challenge.
When both Fox and Falco are trying to side b onto stage or ledge, a good thing to do that stuffs that is :
run off ledge and rising nair onto stage.
The nair is a good edge guarding tool for spacies trying to come onto stage because it stays out forever, it will cover their side B's and push them back off stage and then you can react from there.
Edge guarding falcon is pretty simple. If he's higher up and further away from the stage, grab ledge and make sure you remember to watch out for his down b he'll use to regain his double jump.
The fall from ledge rising nair onto stage works well for falcon the same as it does fox and even better since falcon's recovery isn't anywhere near as good.
The way to do that is to flick away from ledge, fast fall down a little bit, and double jump nair while holding towards the stage.
If you aren't on the ledge, i suggest sniping him with needles. The more needles you hit him with the lower his recovery is going to be because of the start up animation of his up b, so you can either needle him until he gets too low to be able to recover which is kind of tedious and hard, or you can just needle him until he's low enough for you to have time to turn yourself around and grab ledge from him.
The fall from ledge rising nair onto stage works well for falcon the same as it does fox and even better since falcon's recovery isn't anywhere near as good.
The way to do that is to flick away from ledge, fast fall down a little bit, and double jump nair while holding towards the stage.
If you aren't on the ledge, i suggest sniping him with needles. The more needles you hit him with the lower his recovery is going to be because of the start up animation of his up b, so you can either needle him until he gets too low to be able to recover which is kind of tedious and hard, or you can just needle him until he's low enough for you to have time to turn yourself around and grab ledge from him.
Edge guarding yourself. Just think about how you have to recover when fighting others and exploit that.
Always grab ledge, keep your invincibility. If you're there the Sheik will be afraid to sweet spot (You should be too) and be forced to do an awkward tricky recovery option.
Sheik has a really laggy landing animation for her up B, so you have plenty of time to get on stage and react from ledge.
If the sheik up bs directly upward next to the ledge to trick you into letting her fall to grab it if your invincibility is out, do a regular getup onto stage and then regrab her as she's falling, and then you get a dthrow followup which could potentially lead to fair or up air to kill, depending on percentage.
If she up b's kind of diagonally onto the platform above you, regular getup and react from there with whatever you find optimal. Fair is usually what i end up doing.
Always grab ledge, keep your invincibility. If you're there the Sheik will be afraid to sweet spot (You should be too) and be forced to do an awkward tricky recovery option.
Sheik has a really laggy landing animation for her up B, so you have plenty of time to get on stage and react from ledge.
If the sheik up bs directly upward next to the ledge to trick you into letting her fall to grab it if your invincibility is out, do a regular getup onto stage and then regrab her as she's falling, and then you get a dthrow followup which could potentially lead to fair or up air to kill, depending on percentage.
If she up b's kind of diagonally onto the platform above you, regular getup and react from there with whatever you find optimal. Fair is usually what i end up doing.
Marth can be easy and tricky to edgeguard
If the Marth doesn't save his double jump he gets destroyed by Sheik's edge guarding. Sheik can snipe him with needles off stage if you cant get to ledge in time, or she can just grab ledge and ledge hop back air.
You can go really deep with ledge hop back air because sheik has great distance on her up b and a good quick double jump, so while a marth is side b stalling to try to get back onto stage, fall from ledge and hit him with a rising back air and he cant really come back.
If they save their double jump however you kind of have to edgeguard them like you do sheik because you can't keep your ledge invincibility without them getting to close (Or else theyd just be able to recover on stage for free or hit you with the up b)
So just get on stage and react from there with grabs into kill followups
If the Marth doesn't save his double jump he gets destroyed by Sheik's edge guarding. Sheik can snipe him with needles off stage if you cant get to ledge in time, or she can just grab ledge and ledge hop back air.
You can go really deep with ledge hop back air because sheik has great distance on her up b and a good quick double jump, so while a marth is side b stalling to try to get back onto stage, fall from ledge and hit him with a rising back air and he cant really come back.
If they save their double jump however you kind of have to edgeguard them like you do sheik because you can't keep your ledge invincibility without them getting to close (Or else theyd just be able to recover on stage for free or hit you with the up b)
So just get on stage and react from there with grabs into kill followups
I dont think you really edgeguard puff. You kind of just kill her after racking percentage because she destroys offstage, but needles are an option i guess if you want to poke her while she's off
Peach:
Peach is extremely annoying to edgeguard because of her up b being really good and able to change speeds from floaty to falling on stage.
If you decide to grab ledge shes going to have to watch out for your ledge hop back airs so she'll usually try baiting you into doing one so she can get on for free. Sometimes they mess up and you get that bair, but they'll DI it upward and be in an even better recovery situation.
So you'll have to react to that by getting back on stage and hitting her back off somehow. If she ends up above you you can always ledge hop up air and get some damage or a kill depending on percentage (Kills at like 109+ on most stages i think, earlier on yoshis and probably like 120+ for Dreamland)
If you're on stage, try to get her with needles or maybe challenging her float with a fair
If you decide to grab ledge shes going to have to watch out for your ledge hop back airs so she'll usually try baiting you into doing one so she can get on for free. Sometimes they mess up and you get that bair, but they'll DI it upward and be in an even better recovery situation.
So you'll have to react to that by getting back on stage and hitting her back off somehow. If she ends up above you you can always ledge hop up air and get some damage or a kill depending on percentage (Kills at like 109+ on most stages i think, earlier on yoshis and probably like 120+ for Dreamland)
If you're on stage, try to get her with needles or maybe challenging her float with a fair
SoPo:
You gotta kill Nana anyway or else you'll be handed off or wobbled and dealt more damage by both climbers,
But just grab ledge and react to SoPo's Side b's by ledge hop fair/up airs or bairs if he is a little further out.
Nana: Killing nana is really easy. She doesn't up b or side b by herself so really all you have to do is fair or throw her far enough off stage to where her double jump wont reach the ledge. Your opponent will be trying to save her by running to ledge and up b'ing but usually that leaves them open to a free grab, and you can either down throw and react or back throw to keep them away as they watch nana get bodied
You gotta kill Nana anyway or else you'll be handed off or wobbled and dealt more damage by both climbers,
But just grab ledge and react to SoPo's Side b's by ledge hop fair/up airs or bairs if he is a little further out.
Nana: Killing nana is really easy. She doesn't up b or side b by herself so really all you have to do is fair or throw her far enough off stage to where her double jump wont reach the ledge. Your opponent will be trying to save her by running to ledge and up b'ing but usually that leaves them open to a free grab, and you can either down throw and react or back throw to keep them away as they watch nana get bodied
I hope this helps any, lmao. This is the first detailed advice i've given but its all personally how i handle top tiers when it comes to edge guarding.
My scene has a variety of low and mid tier characters too so I know those as well if you have any questions about them.
Last edited:
Liamcal
Smash Rookie
Sometimes simple things such as needles can do the trick. I do fair if they are near the mid point of the stage (off stage), and if they are up high, sometimes a uair can do the job.
Gいたん
Smash Apprentice
No problem Man, and I completely agree.
Feel free to quote me here or pm me if you run into any other problems
With edge guarding I haven't gone over or have any problems doing anything I mentioned, will definitely get back to you.
Palmerfan
Smash Apprentice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBD8au4jQbg Watch m2k play and do what he does, his punish game is as close to optimized as it gets
Claing
Smash Rookie
I plan on reading that info Glitched. Looks like a good read thanks!