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Early Joker Frame Data (and other data)

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Jan 31, 2008
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Joker Data (Frame Data, Damage Values, Kill Percents) [No Arsene]:

Jab1 - f4, 2.4% damage
Jab2 - 1.8% damage
Jab3 - 4.8% damage
Ftilt - f8, 9.6% damage, kills at 148% from the edge
Utilt - f8, 9.6% damage, kills at 170% off the top
Dtilt - f8, 7.2% damage
Fsmash - f16 (f11 after charge release), 16.8% damage, kills at 104% from center stage (72% edge)
Usmash - f10 (f6 after charge release), 14.4% damage, kills off the top at 122%
Dsmash - f12 (f16 from back, f7 after charge release), 14.4% damage (front or back), kills at 135% from center stage (98% edge)
Dash Attack - f6, 9.6% damage

Stand Grab - f6
Running Grab - f8
Pivot Grab - f8

Fthrow - 9.6% damage, kills at 184% from the edge
Bthrow - 12.0% damage, kills at 205% from center stage (142% edge)
Uthrow - 8.4% damage, kills at 220% off the top
Dthrow - 8.4% damage, kills at 197% off the top
Pummel - 1.8% damage

Nair - f12, 7.1% damage (8.4% with sweetspot, seems to be a little late and directly under Joker)
Fair - f7, 7.1% damage, kills somewhat later than bair but becomes an unreliable multihit at kill percents so have fun with that
Bair - f7, 9.1% damage, kills at 172% from center stage (122% edge)
Uair - f5, 6.1% damage
Dair - f13 (initial hit behind Joker), 9.6% damage (8.1% sourspot)

Gun mechanics:

On the ground or in the air, you can press special to shoot once. This fires a horizontal linear projectile that goes about half the length of Battlefield but only does hitstun for about 1/3 the length of Battlefield. Continuing to hold special will shoot at a slightly different trajectory that is still mostly horizontal. Joker has some long sequence of incredibly similar shots he'll cycle through if special is held. Landing while shooting will cancel the current shot and put Joker into a landing animation; you cannot "flow" from the air to the ground with this special.

When in a firing sequence, you can hit left or right as you hold special to do a dodge shot instead of an ordinary shot. On the ground you will roll either forward or backward and then shoot in the same direction you were initially shooting. In the air you will do what is effectively a left or right airdodge with a very slight downward angle and then shoot in the same direction you were originally shooting.

On the ground, you can press jump and special during a firing sequence to do the "bullet rain" attack. Joker will jump and fire a rain of bullets downward. You can hold left or right to air control during this to influence where the bullets will land, but it seems like you always fire the same number of bullets.

In the air, you can press up and special to do the spinning gunshot move. Joker spins in circles shooting in all directions. You can also air control during this, but be cautious as Joker will continue shooting for a very long time. You can land to stop shooting, but if you are shooting off-stage it's very likely you'll self destruct before Joker finishes. However, this does not consume any jumps or put you into helpless fall state so if you started this extremely high up you have some chance to recover.

In the air, you can press down and special to do the bullet rain move. This variation of the bullet rain fires much slower than the grounded version, but like all other special Joker gun moves, you can air control during this freely. The total time this takes is much lower than the spinning gunshot move so it can realistically be used off-stage and you might be able to recover.

The initial gun shot has three damage values. At very close range, it does 6% damage. At mid ranges where it still does hitstun, it does 3.6% damage. At far ranges where it does no hitstun, it does 1.2% damage. The initial gunshot hits on f12, and if the gun is held, the next hits occur every 30 frames thereafter. For the sake of my sanity and because it really isn't the most important thing, I'm not going to measure frame data of his million variations at this time.

Eiha - f16, does 3.6% damage on initial hit and ticks 1.2% damage 8 times (13.2% total damage). The damage over time does not go away if Joker is hit. Landing while executing this special causes the special to continue execution.

Grappling Hook - f20, 13.2% damage.

This move cannot grab opponents who are shielding and does not hit a grounded opponent on Joker's level, but it will happily pull opponents off platforms and into Joker's arms. The aerial version also hits on f20 but instead of the "hit grab" effect of the grounded version it just hits the opponent for a weak 6% hit. The air version is of course Joker's primary recovery move. It stalls Joker in the air the first time it is used in the air and tethers the ledge. The ledge tethering has very similar behavior to Simon/Richter's aerial attacks that tether; it doesn't need to be aimed like Ivysaur's up special though the total area that is possible to tether seems more vertical and less horizontal as compared to Simon/Richter (warning: this is anecdotal evidence; I don't know how to measure that easily). This move can grab ledges from the back but only over a fairly small area; it is heavily suggested when recovering to properly do this toward the ledge. As a tether move, holding down when executing this special will not prevent Joker from tethering the ledge. Landing while execution this special causes the special to continue execution.

Rebel's Guard - Begins being able to block attacks on f3 on the ground or in the air. Does not protect against grabs. Landing while executing this special causes this special to continue execution. Blocking more powerful moves seems to cause more meter to build, but the amount of meter built is fairly significant even for blocking weak attacks. Unlike most counter style moves, this move does not stall Joker while he is falling, but it does stop Joker from rising if executed from a jump and also kills any horizontal momentum Joker has.

Joker Data (Damage Values mostly) [Arsene]
Arsene's meter builds very slowly with time, in small chunks as Joker takes damage, and very, very quickly when blocking moves with Rebel's Guard. If you don't use Rebel's Guard you can probably expect about one Arsene per stock, but Rebel's Guard can get you this guy in a hurry. Dying mostly empties the meter but does leave a small chunk. Once summoned, Arsene remains active for 30 seconds, but taking damage will remove time from the meter.

Arsene increases the damage and knockback of most of Joker's attacks. The frame data seems unaffected. Arsene can disappear in the middle of an attack and downgrade the attack.

Jab1 - 3.2% damage
Jab2 - 2.6% damage
Jab3 - 8.6% damage
Ftilt - 15.6% damage
Utilt - 15.6% damage
Dtilt - 15.6% damage
Fsmash - 26.4% damage, kills from center stage at 81%
Usmash - 20.4% damage
Dsmash - 21.6% damage
Dash Attack - 16.8% damage

Grabs, throws, and pummels are completely unaffected by Arsene.

Nair - Doesn't seem to increase damage but makes the move multi-hit instead. Damage is highly variable.
Fair - 18% damage
Bair - 19.2% damage
Uair - 13.2% damage
Dair - Doesn't increase damage directly but adds a multi-hit like nair. Can meteor. A clean hit does 19.2% damage.

Gun Special - Shots are three hit bursts now. Total damage at point blank from one is 12.0%. All follow up options are basically the same as they were before except stronger (I think).

Eigaon - Does 5.4% damage with a quick multi-hit with the projectile itself. Inflicts 1.8% tick damage 8 times so the move does 19.8% damage on a successful hit.

Wings of Rebellion - The move doesn't hit. You can air control a bit while flying with it. It goes pretty far. It is invincible from frame 1 from the ground and frame 3 in the air.

Tetrakarn - Still counters on frame 3. Does 14.4% damage; this move does not scale with the power of the opposing attack at all.

Other Quick Joker Data:

Airdodge Invincible On Frame 3
Raw running speed seems pretty close to Ridley's, maybe slightly slower but really close. That puts Joker at around rank 10 in terms of running speed.

Methodology notes:

All moves have the 1v1 damage multiplier but stale moves off in training mode. All kill percents are tested against Robin (the most ordinary cast member for this purpose) who does not DI and on Final Destination with Joker having no rage at all. In practical matches, you will usually kill earlier as you can get a 1.05x multiplier for a move being fully fresh and a 1.1x multiplier for max rage.
 

xZRx

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
24
Switch FC
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Helpful stuff. still really trying to figure out how the special moves work though, idk why they all seem so... goofy(?) to me.
 

Justin Allen Goldschmidt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
309
Helpful stuff. still really trying to figure out how the special moves work though, idk why they all seem so... goofy(?) to me.
You're not alone. They do feel a little weird, especially neutral special. His hitboxes in general also seem odd to me.
EDIT: still fun though
 
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DavemanCozy

Smash Photographer
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May 16, 2013
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He's kinda slow with some moves huh? He has a lot of endlag on F-air; do it out of a full hop and try to double jump after the animation finishes... I can't. It doesn't auto-cancel out of a short-hop either. N-air is also slow on startup.

Then again, I love his b-air (that hitbox is great) and I really have to get used to landing with Down-B.

At low percents: Up-throw. At mid percents: Down-throw. That's what I've been noting with his throws KB wise.

Up-B grapple (before Arsene) is also great for catching landings, it's a pretty unique command grab.

Neutral Special (Gun) is great. Something very cool and useful I've been doing with it is wave-bouncing with it then pressing back after firing once to fade backwards and shoot again. It is a really good fake out, you can also act out of the shot. It's a very useful move. hold B -> up is like Bayo's neutral air when held. Hold B -> down is useful for landing, or for continuing a combo after getting a ground spike with d-air.
 
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Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
This is definitely wrong. It's a 1.6x multiplier afaict. Countering a 23% damage smash inflicted 37% back to them.
I suspect it has a really high floor is the issue that tricked me; there are a lot of moves it can counter where it just does the same thing and seemed the same with everything I was testing in training (I think my dummy at the time was ZSS for her f1 jab... and her smashes are multi-hit so they were also countering for 14.4% damage). I'm on my way out the door but I'll get more precise detail on this probably later tonight though what you said sounds pretty believable.
 

MyFaceIsEdible

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
9
His Up b has a lower range of 7 mabye 8 units vertically under the edge, 5 mabye 6 units horizontally from the ledge and I can't seem to get it to activate more than 1 units above the ledge.
 
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