Early Ganon impressions from SonicTHP

[flashfox]

Posts from SonicTHP about Ganondorf in brawl...

What that video doesn't show you is that his side B has some interesting properties to it.

-It is unblockable. That is correct, this is a dashing grab.

-In the air, he grabs them and slams them into the ground with an explosion.

-With the aerial side B, he can grab an enemy and suicide with them, a la Kirby. I am not yet sure if the otehr person can get out of it yet.

These are things some people I was playing with found, but have not seen documented yet.

Also, his Up B does not have the horizontal range it used to have, and he does not get his second jump back after an aerial down B (same with Captain Falcon). These things affect his recovery, but at the same time, everyone in the game recover's easier, so it doesn't affect him that much...

In general, he felt like he was slower, but with more range. Ganondorf is still very powerful though. His jab is very good example of this. It's not longer the quick close range move that it was in Melee, but rather a longer reaching punch with the same knock back properties of the old jab, but with noticeably more startup and recovery time. His ftilt is that "Leonidas kick" that people seem to be mentioning, but I was unable to angle it up or down like in Melee. It also felt like it had less range and put him in more dange because of it's forward moving properties. The dash attack was the same as Melee (shoulder that knocks opponent behind him). His aerials generally were the same attacks as they were in melee, but with this new model (based on Twilight Princess) makes them different. He seems to have long arms and shorter legs, effectively making his kick based moves feel different. I think the biggest loss comes from his shorter legs which make his uair not as good as it used to be. He also does not extend his body with his dair (stomp) like he used to, and it felt a little slower coming out, but it was still very powerful. His bair and fair all seemed about the same, and because of his arm length suffer no loss at all. The nair looked like the second kick came out a little slower, but didn't seem to suffer a big hit to it's range like his other kick moves.

Unfortunately, with my time playing with him I didn't pay enough attention to his grabs, so I can't really say much about those yet.

Any other questions? I'll try to do my best in giving and finding out answers. But I only get to play the game a few times a day on weekdays.

Sorry for not explaining it better.

Ganondorf's model is different now obviously. He stands upright as you can tell in the video, and his proportions are strange compared to his older model. His arms are long in proportion to his body, but are essentially the same length that they were in Melee. His legs however are much shorter in proportion to the rest of his body and it has indeed affected a number of his kick moves. I would say that his uair and dair have indeed been affected. The animation for his dair is also different, and he doesn't extend his body vertically the same way Captain Falcon does and he used to do, this has decreased the range below him that the attack is effective. His uair is affected simply by having a smaller range in general, even though it is still the flip kick that he had before. His bair actually seemed to have maybe a little more range due to his arms, but the fair seemed to be the same as it was before.

I don't think the jab will have escape properties like it did before. I think it is too slow for that in all honesty. I think you could use it at a range to make the move safe from non-ranged shield/normal grabs but it will be hard to counter with it after being hit.

I forgot to mention before that his usmash is different now. It's a single strong kick upward, not the double kick that he had from C. Falcon before. His fsmash and dsmash are the same though. The dsmash has indeed been affected by his shorter legs. I unfortunately did not notice any of that superarmor to go through moves, but I may simply have missed it, so don't take that to mean he definitely does not have it.

His specials seem to have seen little change outside of their animations. He still felt like the majority of his power lies in the strength of his normal attacks. His down B seemed faster, but I think it isn't effective at close range due to a start up animation and essentially the hit box not being active until you see the purple energy coming off of his foot. His Up B seemed similar, but it holds them for a longer time and the energy that hurts them is slower. It doesn't seem weakened all that much at all, just different. As I said before though, there is a definite decrease in it's ability to move horizontally. The standard B is the powerful punch, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have super armor and can be interrupted easily, just as before.

Feel free to spread any and all of this information around. I learned to like playing Ganondorf in Melee as one of the main three characters I used and I was effective with him, but I won't claim to be at any kind of tournament skill level with him. I figure I will share what I find about about him and other characters jsut as I'd wish someone else would do if they were in my position. If you have any more questions, I'll try to get answers.

I can tell you right now that the Ganoncide works. I did it myself. I am unsure if the person can wiggle out of it like Kirby's throws in SSBM, but I doubt it.

I checked on some of that stuff you asked about. Here are some of my findings:

-The uair does not have that spike quality at the end of it anymore. I hit with the last part of it and it just did some simple knockback, similar to a normal jab (not Ganondorf's though).

-I didn't quite figure out how to reduce or what caused the reduced lag in his aerial attacks. I noticed it happens for other characters too. My theory is that it has to do with where in the animation of an aerial you land, with the least lag coming near the end. Then agian, this is just a theory.

-The quadruple jump (jump, double jump, aerial down B, jump, Up B) is definitely gone. Captain Falcon also doesn't have it.

-Also, I am not sure anyone mentioned, but you can turn around at a certain point of Ganondorf's neuteral B punch, just by tapping the other direction. Neat stuff.

Hope this helps. I'll keep looking into the aerial landing lag thing, as I am sure many players are also looking into since it affects everyone.

feel free to post questions here and I'll pass them along.

 

[Phlemingo]

That is very useful info. Thanks.

 

[Kio Iranez]

Well...sounds interesting...

Let's just hope Brawl is not to be judged in gameplay similarly to Melee...

 

[flashfox]

^^;

Edited first post, please feel free to ask questions and I'll try to pass along them. I don't know how long Sonic can answer these questions though.

 

[SpitFire15]

No more quadruple jumps?

 

[FenrirIII]

My question is in regards to his D-Air spike, specifically in this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mxfh5MyMdXY&feature=user
I noticed that he seems to have little to no lag after landing if he hits with it, even if he starts off closer to the ground, yet his lag is atrocious if he misses even from decent heights. Is this a special quality, or just part of every character's game mechanics and it's just more obvious with Ganondorf?
Could you test that out?

 

[Twilight Emblem]

Nice, Fenrir.

Also i've got a question myself. Can you still spike with his reverse up air??

Heres a link to what it looked like in melee just in the very small chance you havn't seen it . Sorry for the bad quality but i couldn't find another vid D:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HOP0IIKTAYE

He could also drop from the ledge and do this to knock you back really far for an even sicker spike, just jump off backwards and do it, etc.

And thanks for relaying the info flash fox, :D

 

[Magus420]

The melee u-air had 3 different knockbacks. A strong diagonally sending hit from startup to when it's overhead that did 12-13 dmg, a moderately powerful very low trajectory (the same as Sheik's f-air in melee) hit from overhead to directly behind that did 10-11 dmg, and the very weak horizontal trajectory hit from straight behind to finish that did 6-7 damage and similar to Fox's shine spike but without fixed knockback.

I've seen what appeared to be the low trajectory hit done in the vid with Pikachu with the later part of the attack, so he probably has the 3rd hit on it too.

 

[Twilight Emblem]

Alright, thanks a ton magus for that look on his up air.

Oh, and SonicTHP and Flashfox, you have both made my day by confirming the up air spike. Which was already made by the amazing possibilities for ganon that i've seen pop up during the day in these amazing suggestions popping up in threads. But this just takes the cake. It is going to be hard to top rediscovering that spike, that is a kick *** discovery and i salute you both for letting us know without a shadow of a doubt its still in there from the experience of you guys pulling it off.

*I wonder if SonicTHP was the first person to actually pull off this spike for brawl since i havn't really seen it anywhere else, if thats true then props to you*

Looks like magus's prediction about it coming back was dead on also, *makes lotsa spaghetti for magus*

I've got another question now about ganondorf, can you try to see if he can chaingrab people at low percents? *like really really really really low O.o* As in, experimenting with every character on the roster to see if its possible to chain grab any of them. It'd be kinda time consuming though so feel free to take your time, i won't mind waiting :D

 

[flashfox]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaode View Post
*AWESOME IDEA INCOMING*

Does Ganondorf's Uair still reverse spike?

If so, try using it after a JBT/RAR
This will be so awesome if it works.


Yes, it does, I've tried it.

Confirmation, I guess.

 

[Twilight Emblem]

Oh, lol. Thanks for that then. I can't wait to see what becomes of the chaingrabbing. This should be quiet a treat.

 

[flashfox]

Ganoncide confirmed....pretty sure its side-b in air. Drags them down to their death, with you. =)

 

[FenrirIII]

Ganoncide confirmed....pretty sure its side-b in air. Drags them down to their death, with you. =)

Then the question is, is it as escapable as Kirby/DeDeDe or DK's? If it isn't, then this actually may be the thing that makes Ganon not a bad character. His moves have some great knockback, especially the 'Sparta' Kick as far as horizontal distance goes. It might make for a great way to suddenly find yourself an entire stock ahead, or to capitalize on an aerial pursuit (from the likes of MetaKnight, Jiggs, and Kirby for example). Of course obivously this loses effectiveness if your opponent's better KO techniques rely on them being near the edge, like Falco and Fox, or if their recovery is more agile (like MetaKnight, Lucario, Diddy).

If it is then, well.
Boo to that >

 

[flashfox]

check the first post, SonicTHP doubts its escapable, but more tests are needed.

 

[flashfox]

uhoh, conflicting information...look at the last quote... but interesting new findings at the least..

 

[Kio Iranez]

Wait. According to the last quote, you can turn around the Neutral B Punch. Is this if it is grounded, or in the air? I see some new mindgames coming from this. >;D

 

[EvilGenki]

I am wondering about the properties of his new up smash. In Melee I remember the double-kick up smash had unusual priority; it seemed to stuff some other moves cold, like fox/falco's forward b sometimes. How is the horizontal and vertical range of the new up smash? Does it cover above his head more? Also, how long do the hit frames stay out for?

Also his down B looks like it puts him higher in the air. Can he slide over low pokes like marth's down tilt? Can he use it to pass over Snake's land mines?