Early falco combo-crafting

SDFox

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
138
#1
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SDFox

So Just wanted to post some research I'm doing and create a place for early combo-crafting for the community.
I'm no expert on this so please take this stuff with a grain of salt, This stuff is of course subject to change via patches and greater understanding, as well as more intended as a jumping off point for those more qualified then me to throw in their hat.
My methodology
All I'm doing for research and testing is taking a lvl8 bot into training mode and smacking it around at certain % thresholds.
I first test it with the bot inactive and on a flat plane, while double-checking it via the combo meter.
second put the bot into active and see if I can preform it 3 times in a row, while the combo meter remains the same.
This method is flawed and vulnerable to mistakes.
However it is also fast and I have no interest or capability in making a comprehensive guide at the moment, this is simply to start discussion on combo theory.

*This will mostly be throw combos*
*Also a good chunk of these combos might not depend on weight, OP will be updated later when I have more time to test*

I'll be updating this OP with more discoveries.

Throw combos
Heavies (tested on K-rool)

(0%)d-throw -> JC up-smash
old faithful, interestingly this seems to work up to significantly higher %s then in smash 4, though at higher % it seems di dependent


(0%) d-throw -> SHFF n-air ->
SHFF n-air -*> SHFF n-air
Old faith full, the first n-air is guarantied, however you can go further then that with good timing.
Just for notes, the full 5 rep SHFF n-air + f-air ender did ~70% from 0

(0%) d-throw -> Skid cancel u-tilt -> SHFF n-air -*> f-air
Easy BB combo, the f-air is pretty hard to get and might be di dependent, or might be that I'm not n-air-ing with the maximum distance, might be more pratical then the other combos as it requires less space.
~34%

(0%) d-throw -> SHFF n-air -> regrab -> SHFF n-air -*> regrab ->f-air
~49%
This one is pretty difficult, but I've managed to get it several times while the bot was active so idk. combo seems vulnerable to di as for each successive grab to work you need to be pretty specific distance from your target. However I'm pretty confident the first 2 reps are true.

(~30-90%) d-throw -> laser
This is actually a extremely good set up combo, the laser hits forcing them to fall onto the ground a lot of the time, allowing for a regrab or any number of things.

Medium (Tested on Link)

(0%)d-throw -> JC up-smash
works on medium weights

(0%) d-throw -> SHFF n-air -*> SHFF n-air *
Same as in the heavy section, only now getting the farthest distance with the first n-air is key. If you don't see yourself going past link while you're n-air-ing, end it with a f-air instead.

(0%) d-throw -*> SHFF crashing up-air -> Up-smash
-> Regrab?
Tight timing and requires a missed tech, but potentially a good and flashy combo starter.

(0%) d-throw -> skid cancel f-tilt (angled up) -*> dash regrab

not actually a combo but the window for getting out of the re-grab is very short, and if they shield they obviously get punished.

(~30-90%) d-throw -> laser
This is actually a extremely good set up combo, the laser hits forcing them to fall onto the ground a lot of the time, allowing for a regrab or any number of things.

(~30-90%) d-throw(near the edge of the stage) -> laser -> n-air (Falling offstage)
This, again, isn't a true combo, but rather a hard to get out off and sets up for edge guarding really well.

Too late for me to continue, will update list later, please post your own findings below.
peace
-SDFox
 
Last edited:

compares

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
1
#2
Love what you're doing here this is going to help me so much! I'm going to post anything I find as well. Thanks!
 

Valand43

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
18
#3
Thanks for these! I've been trying to search for good stuff to use with Falco as well, so this will help a lot.
 

Chatmanm

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Messages
6
#4
SDFox SDFox

Have you had any luck with the Falco up air out of Dthrow combos on light weights?

In Sm4sh you could dthrow mid to light weights and link a RAR up air into uptilt.

I haven't had a chance to lab super hard yet. Might be worth looking into since upair covers more space and can set up a regrab. The starting hitbox used to be weaker and lead into grabs.

Love the post!
 

Ffamran

The Ravioli's Gale
Moderator
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,569
#5
If only I knew how to read in Japanese... These are falling Nair setups, but I'm not exactly sure what the requirements are exactly or if they factor in DI.

This one was done against Incineroar where falling Nair is followed up with Utilt, Uairs are used to juggle, and Fair is the finisher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY7RupOGYQ0.

This one was done against Cloud where falling Nair is used to confirm a U-throw into Dair into another falling Nair, Utilt to launch, and Bair to kill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuAvZJagjxY.
 

YoboyAjax

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
3
#7
If I grab at low to mid percent I go u throw to upair. True combo and puts falco in a good position for more strings.

At the percent that the u throw takes a double jump to combo into upair I think it's best to instead just throw them off stage. Falco struggles to kill on stage.

Falling Nair seems to combo into grab. But I haven't been able to use rising ff Nair to the same effect. Either I use a rising Nair as a get off me tool or I delay and use falling Nair for setups.

Outside of grabbing, utilt seems like a good combo starter but it's probably best when used to catch lands rather than any other situation. Which leads me to think that landing those grabs is going to be a crucial part of falcos neutral game.

But how to we land those grabs? So far what I've been doing is forcing approaches with the new laser/reflector but that hasn't always worked. Falling Nair is going to be good but Nair in the neutral can be just as hard as grabs considering it's extremely limited range.
Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

ShinyPip

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
1
Location
Niagara, ON. Canada
#8
|\_/|,,_____,~~`
(. " .)~~ )`~}}
\o/\ /---~\\ ~}}
_// _// ~}
SDFox

So Just wanted to post some research I'm doing and create a place for early combo-crafting for the community.
I'm no expert on this so please take this stuff with a grain of salt, This stuff is of course subject to change via patches and greater understanding, as well as more intended as a jumping off point for those more qualified then me to throw in their hat.
My methodology
All I'm doing for research and testing is taking a lvl8 bot into training mode and smacking it around at certain % thresholds.
I first test it with the bot inactive and on a flat plane, while double-checking it via the combo meter.
second put the bot into active and see if I can preform it 3 times in a row, while the combo meter remains the same.
This method is flawed and vulnerable to mistakes.
However it is also fast and I have no interest or capability in making a comprehensive guide at the moment, this is simply to start discussion on combo theory.

*This will mostly be throw combos*
*Also a good chunk of these combos might not depend on weight, OP will be updated later when I have more time to test*

I'll be updating this OP with more discoveries.

Throw combos
Heavies (tested on K-rool)

(0%)d-throw -> JC up-smash
old faithful, interestingly this seems to work up to significantly higher %s then in smash 4, though at higher % it seems di dependent


(0%) d-throw -> SHFF n-air ->
SHFF n-air -*> SHFF n-air
Old faith full, the first n-air is guarantied, however you can go further then that with good timing.
Just for notes, the full 5 rep SHFF n-air + f-air ender did ~70% from 0

(0%) d-throw -> Skid cancel u-tilt -> SHFF n-air -*> f-air
Easy BB combo, the f-air is pretty hard to get and might be di dependent, or might be that I'm not n-air-ing with the maximum distance, might be more pratical then the other combos as it requires less space.
~34%

(0%) d-throw -> SHFF n-air -> regrab -> SHFF n-air -*> regrab ->f-air
~49%
This one is pretty difficult, but I've managed to get it several times while the bot was active so idk. combo seems vulnerable to di as for each successive grab to work you need to be pretty specific distance from your target. However I'm pretty confident the first 2 reps are true.

(~30-90%) d-throw -> laser
This is actually a extremely good set up combo, the laser hits forcing them to fall onto the ground a lot of the time, allowing for a regrab or any number of things.

Medium (Tested on Link)

(0%)d-throw -> JC up-smash
works on medium weights

(0%) d-throw -> SHFF n-air -*> SHFF n-air *
Same as in the heavy section, only now getting the farthest distance with the first n-air is key. If you don't see yourself going past link while you're n-air-ing, end it with a f-air instead.

(0%) d-throw -*> SHFF crashing up-air -> Up-smash
-> Regrab?
Tight timing and requires a missed tech, but potentially a good and flashy combo starter.

(0%) d-throw -> skid cancel f-tilt (angled up) -*> dash regrab

not actually a combo but the window for getting out of the re-grab is very short, and if they shield they obviously get punished.

(~30-90%) d-throw -> laser
This is actually a extremely good set up combo, the laser hits forcing them to fall onto the ground a lot of the time, allowing for a regrab or any number of things.

(~30-90%) d-throw(near the edge of the stage) -> laser -> n-air (Falling offstage)
This, again, isn't a true combo, but rather a hard to get out off and sets up for edge guarding really well.

Too late for me to continue, will update list later, please post your own findings below.
peace
-SDFox
Thanks for the info on d-throw! U-throw is really good for mixups obviously. Most of his mixups from smash 4 work and I've been getting U-throw dair pretty consistently
 

YoboyAjax

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
3
#9
So actually I've been struggling to figure out falcos throw combos. Seems like most of what I find is easily escapable. D throw to fair can be died and the same di beats d throw to skid up tilt.

On the first post I'm seeing d throw into shff Nair but I've never been able to combo into that, let alone another one to follow. I'm beginning to think this combo isn't real.

The only surefire combo from throw is up throw into up airs, which may just be the go to combo throw for falco.
 

DWIP

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Messages
13
#10
Not sure if it is usable but yesterday I was messing around in training mod with falco and tried some combo. At 0% I was able to string Uair<Utilt<Utilt<SH Nair<SH Fair for 38%. It appeared as true according to the combo counter.
PS: it was done on DK
 

t-iceman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
322
Location
Washington
#13
Yo I've been playing a lot of falco and I wanted to hit u guys with some info on how to get fatty combos with this character.

Falco really needs a grab or an uptilt to get **** started but if you get an uptilt in the corner you can kill most non heavys at like 60% in the corner with uptilt turnaround fullhop upair dj bair. This should be your go to finisher against people or else your relegated to fishing for bair fsmash or uptilt turnaround bair which I'm pretty certain doesn't true combo.

At 0% on nonplatform stages you should go for downthrow shff Nair run cancel up tilt into shff up air into fullhop up air dj upair bair. This combo does 72% with staling and is the max dmg true combo I've seen so far. It should work on most characters haven't tested on pichu/puff yet but I'm pretty sure it still works. You could start the confirm with a late Nair (2hits) as well. If you are near the corner you can do a rar Nair so that the running uptilt is still possible. You have to make sure to hit the proper hitboxes of upair and drift appropriately for this combo to work

If u are on a platform stage upthrow turnaround fullhop up air falling Nair regrab is your go to. Depending on your positioning after this there are many things you can go for if u can go off a plat towards center stage you can go for dthrow fffair into either another grab or an uptilt. I'll lab more stuff on platforms as I go. You can also do uptilt fullhop upair dj upair up b if u get the proper upair hitbox that's close to falco. Doesnt true combo but if they don't airdodge this will kill
 

JuanmaLegend

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
2
#14
At 0% on nonplatform stages you should go for downthrow shff Nair run cancel up tilt into shff up air into fullhop up air dj upair bair. This combo does 72% with staling and is the max dmg true combo I've seen so far. It should work on most characters haven't tested on pichu/puff yet but I'm pretty sure it still works. You could start the confirm with a late Nair (2hits) as well. If you are near the corner you can do a rar Nair so that the running uptilt is still possible. You have to make sure to hit the proper hitboxes of upair and drift appropriately for this combo to work
I can't manage to do this, do I need to buffer inputs or something, dude? When I dthrow, the enemy goes so far away I can't combo.
 
Last edited:

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,699
Location
Prince Edward Island
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#15
Has anybody explored shff fair yet? If you fast fall it enough you wont get the landing hit or the finisher instead the enemy will plop in front of you, its good for extending combos, starting combos or kill confirms
 
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