Dymamic Mess Em Up Smash

[himemiya]

I noticed marth has a dacus but the timing is super tight. I know how how to dacus since I play brawl but they're easy to pull off lol. I'm just wondering if someone here has a practice method of timing that tight dacus? Also answering the reasoning to be super tight to begin with is also appreciated.

 

[Amazerommu]

Yeah there's like a one frame window where you can perform a DACUS with Marth. I've been practicing it forever and still can't do it at least 90% of the time. I have random periods where I can't do it at all, and random periods where I'll do it 10 times in a row.

As far as a method of practicing it... I'd say just do it. I imagine you have your controls set up so that it's easier to perform? Setting 'Attack' to one of the triggers or 'Z' button make doing this a lot easier. Someone posted somewhere else this little tip that helped me to learn it. If you do a dash attack when trying to perform a DACUS, it means you're doing the Up Smash too late after the dash attack. And if you do an Up Smash but without the movement boost it means you're doing it too early.

 

[Oro?!]

I claw to dacus just for the 1 frame dacus characters. The reason it's 1 frame is due to Marth's jump squat. Characters with slower jump speeds like Ganon and Snake are easier, while Marth is frame perfect. Characters with faster jump speeds than Marth cannot dacus like Fox/Sheik/Pikachu.

 

[CyberZixx]

I don't dacus at all. How useful is it? In what situation would dacus be a good idea?

 

[Amazerommu]

I don't dacus at all. How useful is it? In what situation would dacus be a good idea?

I'm no expert, but in my experience Marth has very few instances where DACUS is useful. Some weird DI out of a forward throw can lead to a DACUS tip... Also occasionally to catch people off guard. Like DACUS under someone standing on one of the bottom two platforms on BF... or any stage with tip-range platforms for that matter. You can do it to spacies out of an up throw too if they try to DI maximum distance away from you at higher percentages. Some who like to ledge jump can be caught by surprise as well, although some characters jump too high for Marth's up smash to connect.

 

[himemiya]

Yeah there's like a one frame window where you can perform a DACUS with Marth. I've been practicing it forever and still can't do it at least 90% of the time. I have random periods where I can't do it at all, and random periods where I'll do it 10 times in a row.

As far as a method of practicing it... I'd say just do it. I imagine you have your controls set up so that it's easier to perform? Setting 'Attack' to one of the triggers or 'Z' button make doing this a lot easier. Someone posted somewhere else this little tip that helped me to learn it. If you do a dash attack when trying to perform a DACUS, it means you're doing the Up Smash too late after the dash attack. And if you do an Up Smash but without the movement boost it means you're doing it too early.

So changing button commands is the only method for marth dacusing?

 

[Amazerommu]

So changing button commands is the only method for marth dacusing?

That's the only way I'm able to do it. I personally set attack to left trigger since I use R for shield. I tried setting it to Z... which was a lot easier, but I couldn't break Melee habits of pressing Z to grab when dashing and/or jump cancelling into grabs. DACUS is still pretty easy for me with left trigger... but it's definitely much easier with the Z button. So if you don't particularly use that a lot, I'd definitely use that.

 

[himemiya]

That's the only way I'm able to do it. I personally set attack to left trigger since I use R for shield. I tried setting it to Z... which was a lot easier, but I couldn't break Melee habits of pressing Z to grab when dashing and/or jump cancelling into grabs. DACUS is still pretty easy for me with left trigger... but it's definitely much easier with the Z button. So if you don't particularly use that a lot, I'd definitely use that.

Actually I use both shield buttons, having to re-map button command seems weird to me. I'm just sooo use to the default layout (with rumble on) and for every time I go to a tourney/smashfest/friend's house I'll have to keep remembering a mental note to re-map the buttons, just weird thing to get used to for me.

 

[Amazerommu]

Actually I use both shield buttons, having to re-map button command seems weird to me. I'm just sooo use to the default layout (with rumble on) and for every time I go to a tourney/smashfest/friend's house I'll have to keep remembering a mental note to re-map the buttons, just weird thing to get used to for me.

Ooooh that is quite the conundrum. Do you use Z at all then? That would be your best bet. And yeah it is weird having to remember to change your controls. (The last time me and my friends actually played I forgot to change to my profile before one match and couldn't do anything for some reason lol) You do get used to it tho.

 

[himemiya]

Ooooh that is quite the conundrum. Do you use Z at all then? That would be your best bet. And yeah it is weird having to remember to change your controls. (The last time me and my friends actually played I forgot to change to my profile before one match and couldn't do anything for some reason lol) You do get used to it tho.

Well yes I do since grabbing is apart of marth's game. I'm soo used to dacusing by c-down z-up-smash.

 

[Amazerommu]

Well yes I do since grabbing is apart of marth's game. I'm soo used to dacusing by c-down z-up-smash.

Yeah I definitely wish it worked the same way as in vBrawl... Then I wouldn't have had to change my controls... It's still pretty fun tho. A lot of people get surprised when I pull off a DACUS in the middle of a match. Marth's can be pretty scary... and I guess used to scare people for that reason.

 

[himemiya]

Yeah I definitely wish it worked the same way as in vBrawl... Then I wouldn't have had to change my controls... It's still pretty fun tho. A lot of people get surprised when I pull off a DACUS in the middle of a match. Marth's can be pretty scary... and I guess used to scare people for that reason.

Thats the main reason why I want to dacus as marth, to suprise melee players and make them go "wtf."

 

[Oro?!]

Just learn how to claw for dacus and get used to adjusting your hands when you want to use it.

 

[DarkFlame]

And what exactly is DACUS? I see a lot that people can do it now and everything like that, and including this forum, but, I've no idea what it is in the first place, the button combinations to be able to pull it off.

 

[Player -0]

And what exactly is DACUS? I see a lot that people can do it now and everything like that, and including this forum, but, I've no idea what it is in the first place, the button combinations to be able to pull it off.

It's a
Dash
Attack
Canceled
Up
Smash

In brawl it's pulled off by hitting down on the C-Stick and hitting Up and Grab at almost the same time. To my knowledge the PMBR has made the DACUS much more precise, especially since there's no buffering in P:M.
Edit: You also can't use grab anymore for charging the smash, only the attack button.

 

[DarkFlame]

Huh, ok, well, I kinda doubt I'll ever be using that! XD I've never been too good with advanced tactics lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

In brawl it's pulled off by hitting down on the C-Stick and hitting Up and Grab at almost the same time. To my knowledge the PMBR has made the DACUS much more precise, especially since there's no buffering in P:M.

it's by hitting down on cstick and up + attack. grab inputs attack on frame 2 if it can't perform a grab or shield, making it 1 frame slower for DACUSing than an Attack button (this is why you can't use Z for 4 frame jumpers)

Edit: You also can't use grab anymore for charging the smash, only the attack button.

this isn't true

 

[Burnsy]

Are you guys sure it isn't only 1 frame when you use a grab input for the usmash? I read something from the PMBR member Shell that said using attack rather than grab increases the window to DACUS by 1 frame. I dont feel like Marth's DACUS is very hard at all when I use attack, so 2 frames would make sense to me. I've never been able to do it with grab, maybe its not possible with a grab input because the window overlaps with the boost grab window

 

[~Frozen~]

4 Frame jumpstart characters cannot DACUS with Grab, it's a 1 frame window for Attack.
5 Frame jumpstart chars have a 1 frame window with Grab, 2 frames for Attack.
6 Frame chars have 2 frames for Grab, 3 frames for Attack, and the pattern continues

 

[Player -0]

Awesome, so now I know.....
And knowing is ha-...

 

[himemiya]

Just learn how to claw for dacus and get used to adjusting your hands when you want to use it.

What do you mean by "claw for dacus?"

 

[Oro?!]

You can't use the Z method for 1 frame DACUS. Because of that, you either have to use C stick to dash attack and then smash up+A in one frame,
OR
you dash attack with A and hit up+up Cstick one frame after the dash attack.

The C stick method is preferred because CStick is the literal ONLY way on standard controls to do an instant dash attack. If you try to do an instant dash attack with A or an alternate attack button, then you get Forward Smash as your input.

Clawing just means that I use my right thumb to press Cstick right, and use my right index finger to press the A button. You are hitting those buttons in a plink motion. It looks like this, but with a GCC.

I think he shows off the Claw method at around ~1:17.

I only use the claw method for DACUS.

 

[himemiya]

You can't use the Z method for 1 frame DACUS. Because of that, you either have to use C stick to dash attack and then smash up+A in one frame,
OR
you dash attack with A and hit up+up Cstick one frame after the dash attack.

The C stick method is preferred because CStick is the literal ONLY way on standard controls to do an instant dash attack. If you try to do an instant dash attack with A or an alternate attack button, then you get Forward Smash as your input.

Clawing just means that I use my right thumb to press Cstick right, and use my right index finger to press the A button. You are hitting those buttons in a plink motion. It looks like this, but with a GCC.

I think he shows off the Claw method at around ~1:17.

I only use the claw method for DACUS.

Oh thats what its called? I remember having to do something like that on dkc on virtual console (wii wich gcc). I now need to practice getting that index finger up & down quick, thank you.

 

[himemiya]

Changed the thread cause I propose to call marth's dacus "Dymamic Mess Em Up Smash" cause it reminds me of mr.satan's mess en up punch on dbz bt3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvp8qb2e4Jk 0:15 -0:30 is self explanatory.