Dtilting Quickly

[FE_Hector]

I know I've seen PPMD push his opponent virtually across the entire stadium solely off of dtilt, but I can't remember when he did or who he was fighting. Basically, though, he's dtilted (double when the first one sourspots), and is almost immediately upon his opponent again after the second one pushes them back. Even if it is due to crappy DI on their part, I feel like this would be super useful to learn how to do. Is it just poke, WD forwards, poke, rinse and repeat, or is there something that I'm missing? For example, one of the things I realized he might have been doing (especially given how good his Falco is), is poke -> dash -> WD -> poke. Anybody know? This has been bugging me for a bit.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

I know I've seen PPMD push his opponent virtually across the entire stadium solely off of dtilt, but I can't remember when he did or who he was fighting. Basically, though, he's dtilted (double when the first one sourspots), and is almost immediately upon his opponent again after the second one pushes them back. Even if it is due to crappy DI on their part, I feel like this would be super useful to learn how to do. Is it just poke, WD forwards, poke, rinse and repeat, or is there something that I'm missing? For example, one of the things I realized he might have been doing (especially given how good his Falco is), is poke -> dash -> WD -> poke. Anybody know? This has been bugging me for a bit.

Falco or Marth? As Marth you could just dash, crouch cancel the dash, and poke, then wd. As Falco, they'd have to have worst DI imaginable to be pulled across the stage by d=tilt alone.

 

[FE_Hector]

Falco or Marth? As Marth you could just dash, crouch cancel the dash, and poke, then wd. As Falco, they'd have to have worst DI imaginable to be pulled across the stage by d=tilt alone.

Lol it was with Marth. Managing that with Falco would be ridiculous. And whenever I've tried to just CC the dash, I've found it actually does a dash attack unless you were completely in the dash animation, so do you have to WD all the way in order to manage the maneuver, or what?

 

[Stride]

As Marth you could just dash, crouch cancel the dash, and poke, then wd.

And whenever I've tried to just CC the dash, I've found it actually does a dash attack unless you were completely in the dash animation, so do you have to WD all the way in order to manage the maneuver, or what?

"Dash" and "run" are different states; when you say "completely in the dash animation" you mean "in the run animation".

"Dash" is what happens when you smash the control stick from a stand, another dash, or the IASA frames of a grounded animation.

• This is the state you can dash-dance in.
• You can't cancel it with a crouch.
• You can perform instant side specials out of it, but not other specials.
​

"Run" is what happens when you keep holding the control stick beyond the dash threshold after you've been dashing in the same direction for a while ("a while" being the duration of the dash animation).

• You can't dash-dance from it; you do the slow turnaround (TurnRun) if you try to dash back. Jumping out of TurnRun will leave you in the direction you were running and not the direction you turned until very late in the animation, well after it looks like you've turned around.
• You can cancel it with a crouch, which takes 2 frames (1 frame of RunBrake and 1 frame of crouch).
• The animation when you return the stick to neutral during a run is much longer than it is when you do so during a dash, so you can't quickly dash out of a run without cancelling it first (with a crouch, wavedash, etc.).
• You can instantly perform any special out of it.​

If you're getting a dash attack instead of a down tilt, then you're not dashing for long enough to transition into run before you try to crouch/down tilt.

 

[FE_Hector]

"Dash" and "run" are different states; when you say "completely in the dash animation" you mean "in the run animation"

"Dash" is what happens when you smash the control stick from a stand, another dash, or the IASA frames of a grounded animation.

• This is the state you can dash-dance in.
• You can't cancel it with a crouch.
• You can perform instant side specials out of it, but not other specials.
​

"Run" is what happens when you keep holding the control stick beyond the dash threshold after you've been dashing in the same direction for a while ("a while" being the duration of the dash animation).

• You can't dash-dance from it; you do the slow turnaround (TurnRun) if you try to dash back. Jumping out of TurnRun will leave you in the direction you were running and not the direction you turned until very late in the animation, well after it looks like you've turned around.
• You can cancel it with a crouch, which takes 2 frames (1 frame of RunBrake and 1 frame of crouch).
• The animation when you return the stick to neutral during a run is much longer than it is when you do so during a dash, so you can't quickly dash out of a run without cancelling it first (with a crouch, wavedash, etc.).
• You can instantly perform any special out of it.​

If you're getting a dash attack instead of a down tilt, then you're not dashing for long enough to transition into run before you try to crouch/down tilt.

That's my issue, though. I've seen PPMD manage quick dtilts across a large portion of the stage, all of which made contact, but attempting to run up to my opponent doesn't allow for the run animation to actually start, yet it didn't to appear to be mere wavedashes. I may be wrong, though... I'll try to find an example later and put it through gfycat to see if you can simply say what he did.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

"Dash" and "run" are different states; when you say "completely in the dash animation" you mean "in the run animation".

"Dash" is what happens when you smash the control stick from a stand, another dash, or the IASA frames of a grounded animation.

• This is the state you can dash-dance in.
• You can't cancel it with a crouch.
• You can perform instant side specials out of it, but not other specials.
​

"Run" is what happens when you keep holding the control stick beyond the dash threshold after you've been dashing in the same direction for a while ("a while" being the duration of the dash animation).

• You can't dash-dance from it; you do the slow turnaround (TurnRun) if you try to dash back. Jumping out of TurnRun will leave you in the direction you were running and not the direction you turned until very late in the animation, well after it looks like you've turned around.
• You can cancel it with a crouch, which takes 2 frames (1 frame of RunBrake and 1 frame of crouch).
• The animation when you return the stick to neutral during a run is much longer than it is when you do so during a dash, so you can't quickly dash out of a run without cancelling it first (with a crouch, wavedash, etc.).
• You can instantly perform any special out of it.​

If you're getting a dash attack instead of a down tilt, then you're not dashing for long enough to transition into run before you try to crouch/down tilt.

I know lol, I forgot the actual terminology.

 

[Rlagkrud]

pretty sure he just wavedashes dtilts.
wavedash dtilts are pretty fast and safe when they're following up a run dtilt.
there are pivot dtilts but those are just unrealistic, unless you going for that 20xx shenanigans

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

Falco or Marth? As Marth you could just dash, crouch cancel the dash, and poke, then wd. As Falco, they'd have to have worst DI imaginable to be pulled across the stage by d=tilt alone.

I'm actually curious to see if this is possible. . . You'd have to shift the DI so it wasn't completely down otherwise you'd have the opponent in non-teched knockdown or CC, maybe with one of the floatier characters? I'll do some testing and post of video of the results soon (purely out of personal curiosity).

More on topic. WD into multiple Dtilts is a common thing for Marth. Sometimes you see Kirbys doe this because the low profile they maintain while crouching is enough to duck SH lasers and Kirby's dtilt actually has some decent range + he's got a good WD. Sometimes the exact spacing for it can be a little difficult to get right out of dash dance since Marth's opening animation is so long so you might consider opening dash (with lots of extra space) -> WD forward -> dtilt or alternatively WD in place (input directly down) -> dtilt.

 

[FE_Hector]

I'm actually curious to see if this is possible. . . You'd have to shift the DI so it wasn't completely down otherwise you'd have the opponent in non-teched knockdown or CC, maybe with one of the floatier characters? I'll do some testing and post of video of the results soon (purely out of personal curiosity).

More on topic. WD into multiple Dtilts is a common thing for Marth. Sometimes you see Kirbys doe this because the low profile they maintain while crouching is enough to duck SH lasers and Kirby's dtilt actually has some decent range + he's got a good WD. Sometimes the exact spacing for it can be a little difficult to get right out of dash dance since Marth's opening animation is so long so you might consider opening dash (with lots of extra space) -> WD forward -> dtilt or alternatively WD in place (input directly down) -> dtilt.

Alright, I'll try it out. I'd tried just WD into multiple Dtilts before, but I was met with limited success.

 

[QuantumKiller]

Alright, I'll try it out. I'd tried just WD into multiple Dtilts before, but I was met with limited success.

It is a very good technique for conditioning your opponent. You can mix it up with grabs, sh fair if they decide to jump, or another dash or WD if they decide to WD or roll away then repeat the process again. A crouch canceling opponent at low percents might be a problem though.

Also check out this post by Kadano to see the differences in approach variations.