Dthrow to UpB - What's the catch?

[Darklink401]

So I was messing around in training mode (I don't use Meta Knight, but I kinda wanna learn him) and I found something interesting, against Toon Link.

Dthrow to up B is a true combo on the little guy, at 95%, and it kills every time. (and the training mode 'idle' CPU DOES DI, though I'm not sure if its optimal/perfect DI)

And I would assume it'd work as a true combo as well, on other characters.

So...what's the catch?

Because last time I checked, Diddy is considered broken because of a dthrow to up air, but Meta Knight seems to have a kill combo from a grab as well o.o''

 

[Katakiri]

MK actually has a fair number of KO setups starting as early as 35%. In fact, Meta Knight has a combo game that easily rivals Diddy and Sheik. The big difference is that he lacks Diddy & Sheik's zoning tools (Banana, Monkey Flip, & Needles, Bouncing Fish respectively) as well as their aerial approach options with their lag-less F-Airs. But he makes up for his lack of zoning with safe ground options, a strong combo game, plenty of KO options, and unrivaled off-stage gimping prowess (High-tiers Diddy, Ness, & Luigi are done for if they recover low.) Still, MK's not quite as potent as Diddy nor Sheik but he's right on their heels.

MK just got really bad publicity early on in Smash 4 with many, many people harping on his range nerfs compared to Brawl. But for every nerf he got, he got a buff somewhere else: Less range, more KO power, less damage, more combo potential, smaller nado, better cape, etc. He's still a fantastic character, he just plays nothing like he did in Brawl. I often say that Smash 4 MK plays much more closely to Melee Fox than Brawl MK.

Also, don't let people lead you to believe that KO throws/KO combos from grabs make a character broken. Diddy's great for a lot more reasons than that. We'd have a lot of "broken" characters if that was the case.

 

[Darklink401]

Thanks a lot =3

I guess I was right xD I always thought MK was underrated, people were even saying he was the worst character in the game, which didn't seem right at all.

Why would you compare him to Melee Fox btw? o.o


And yeah, I just always found it weird that people harp about the hooha, when characters like Rob, Luigi, etc also have kill setups from throws.

I don't believe the hooha makes Diddy broken (in fact I still think Sheik is a better character overall, due to her massive number of options) but since thats the popular opinion, I just put it out there XP as a comparison of sorts.

 

[Katakiri]

I make the Fox comparison due to MK's high-speed, juggling options (Up-Air, Shuttle Loop, Dash-Cancelled Up-Smash, Up-Tilt, and Grabs), and his uncanny ability to convert nearly any single hit into a combo. D-throw, F-Throw, Dash Attack, Up-Air, D-Tilt, and even D-Air at certain percents transition into combos for 18%~25+% a pop or a KO and every one of those moves are bread & butter options for MK that are relatively safe to go for. Not even Diddy nor Sheik can boast that they get combos off their dash attack and MK has one of the safest dash attacks in the game.

 

[warionumbah2]

People to this day go on about his range despite Mario,Dr Mario and Tink having pretty bad range too(Tink having slower start up on his moves). He's underrated because he isn't easy to pick up and people try him then drop him at a blink of an eye(I did this but mainly because of 3DS controls).

Out of all Smash characters he's definitely like Melee Fox but in Sm4sh he's more closer to C.Falcon, i make this comparison because people approach MK with the Brawl mindset or the foolish swordsman mindset too. He plays nothing like Brawl MK nor does he play like a swordsman, so making the comparison to C.Falcon who alot of people play makes it easier for people to click with MK(especially players who never played Melee).

Falling off stage --> Nair is basically Falling off stage --> Shine.

He's underrated people slap him on mid tier which im obviously not cool with.

Katakiri and Shaya think he's one of the best characters in the game. I see MK as a high tier around Mario's level but i still have alot to learn with MK so i cannot see what Kata and Shaya see. Yet.

Never knew Tink dies so early to Hoo Ha! i knew Up Smash kills him at 105% no rage but damn and yes to answer your main question its guaranteed on all characters.

Is mach tornado still as good as it used to be, but smaller, or is it worse for other reasons?

MT has less priority but now once you're in MT its impossible to get out, it does a maximum of 22%(23% fresh). MT is good at eating/poking shields especially tall characters, it can also beat out projectiles. The end lag is non existent if used slightly above the ground and mashed correctly, this move is the reason why his damage per hit isn't so bad along with F-Smash.

 

[Darklink401]

I make the Fox comparison due to MK's high-speed, juggling options (Up-Air, Shuttle Loop, Dash-Cancelled Up-Smash, Up-Tilt, and Grabs), and his uncanny ability to convert nearly any single hit into a combo. D-throw, F-Throw, Dash Attack, Up-Air, D-Tilt, and even D-Air at certain percents transition into combos for 18%~25+% a pop or a KO and every one of those moves are bread & butter options for MK that are relatively safe to go for. Not even Diddy nor Sheik can boast that they get combos off their dash attack and MK has one of the safest dash attacks in the game.

I haven't really checked his dash attack. But if he can combo out of it, that's pretty amazing o.o
Is mach tornado still as good as it used to be, but smaller, or is it worse for other reasons?

People to this day go on about his range despite Mario,Dr Mario and Tink having pretty bad range too(Tink having slower start up on his moves). He's underrated because he isn't easy to pick up and people try him then drop him at a blink of an eye(I did this but mainly because of 3DS controls).

Out of all Smash characters he's definitely like Melee Fox but in Sm4sh he's more closer to C.Falcon, i make this comparison because people approach MK with the Brawl mindset or the foolish swordsman mindset too. He plays nothing like Brawl MK nor does he play like a swordsman, so making the comparison to C.Falcon who alot of people play makes it easier for people to click with MK(especially players who never played Melee).

Falling off stage --> Nair is basically Falling off stage --> Shine.

He's underrated people slap him on mid tier which im obviously not cool with.

Katakiri and Shaya think he's one of the best characters in the game. I see MK as a high tier around Mario's level but i still have alot to learn with MK so i cannot see what Kata and Shaya see. Yet.

Never knew Tink dies so early to Hoo Ha! i knew Up Smash kills him at 105% no rage but damn and yes to answer your main question its guaranteed on all characters.

High tier, huh? I mean, his recovery is great, as is his kill/combo potential, and he can rack up damage fast, so I definitely can see that xD

I've seen a lot of people complain about his range as well, in fact that seems to really be the only complaint. XP


And yeah, I was surprised it killed so early. I should try it out on heavier characters.