Dthrow to Uair Kill Percents for All Characters

[Pegasus Knight]

I have a question about the dthrow to uair combo. In many cases, I miss it when I THINK I should be able to land it... the opponent manages to air dodge just in time. My input is d-throw, single jump, CStick Up to input Levin Sword UAir.

Am I losing too many frames flicking my thumb to the C-Stick, is this something I need to learn to do using the movement stick + A instead?

 

[QuantumKiller]

I have a question about the dthrow to uair combo. In many cases, I miss it when I THINK I should be able to land it... the opponent manages to air dodge just in time. My input is d-throw, single jump, CStick Up to input Levin Sword UAir.

Am I losing too many frames flicking my thumb to the C-Stick, is this something I need to learn to do using the movement stick + A instead?

The timing is pretty tight even at the true combo percents. You're not losing any frames from using c stick. Neither method affects frames, but you should really use it over up+A because short hop uair is very difficult to do consistently than with the control stick. Don't be too quick with the c-stick and do JC upsmash lol.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Technically, no. But physically I would be spending some time moving my thumb from the X/Y button to the C-Stick. Anyway, I'll keep trying it with this method.

 

[Zareidriel]

When I use either the Gamecube or Pro Controller (been tending toward Pro recently, due to the responsiveness of its R) I use jump mapped to the R button (or L, if you prefer) which really helps in situations like this where you don't want to waste a fraction of time moving your thumb from one location to another. It takes a good week or two of hard practice to get used to, but once I did, I couldn't imagine going back to NOT having my jump on a dedicated finger.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Ooh, that's an idea. Think I'll give it a shot. ...And since that's starting to verge off-topic, I'll end my replies here since I don't have any data to contribute on combo percentages.

 

[Nah]

Ok so for some reason every time I try to edit my previous post it wigs out and I can't update it, so I'ma just re-do it here and hope it works out.

Data was collected in Training mode, so no rage and I'm assuming that the combo counter does if fact indicate a bona fide true combo, but I did attempt to simulate some things that a live human opponent might try to do so we (hopefully) have somewhat more practical data:

Partial Robin Dthrow Data:

Update: Data for added, data for updated

Spoiler: Mario

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 33%-59%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 34%-59%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 33%-59%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 10%-32%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-32%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 43%-63%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 43%-60%
-True Combos at (DI up): 43%-62%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Cannot AD at any % Utilt would hit him
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-32%

Spoiler: Luigi

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 43%-55%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 43%-55%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 43%-55%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 0%-35%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-42%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 44%-62%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 44%-62%
-True Combos at (DI up): 44%-62%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Utilt via AD from 0%-32%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-24%

Spoiler: Sheik

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 28%-58%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 28%-58%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 28%-58%
-Shield: Can shield against Jab 1 after Dthrow from 0%-20%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to jump out of combo at relevant %s

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 35%-61%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): needs to be tested, but likely no significant difference
-True Combos at (DI up): needs to be tested, but likely no significant difference
-Shield: Can shield against Utilt after Dthrow from 0%-25%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to jump out of combo at relevant %s

General Checkmate Range: 93%-121%

Spoiler: Zero Suit Samus

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 21%-62%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 21%-56%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 21%-62%
-Shield: Can shield against Jab 1 after Dthrow from 0%-5%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to double out of combo at relevant %s

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 31%-60%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 31%-56%
-True Combos at (DI up): 31%-60%
-Shield: Can shield against Utilt after Dthrow from 0%-11%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to double jump out of combo at relevant %s

General Checkmate Range: 95%-120%

Spoiler: Sanic

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 42%-49%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 42%-49%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 42%-49%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 12%-26%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-17%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 37%-48%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 37%-48%
-True Combos at (DI up): 37%-48%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Utilt whiffs at %s he could AD
-Jump: Utilt whiffs at %s he could jump out

Spoiler: Pikachu

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 20%-52%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 20%-52%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 20%-52%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 0%-19%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-19%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 29%-51%%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 29%-51%
-True Combos at (DI up): 29%-51
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Utilt via AD from 0%-27%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-6%

Spoiler: Diddy

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 38%-60%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 38%-60%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 38%-60%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 23%-27%%
-Jump: Unable to double jump out of combo

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 38%-53%%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 38%-53%
-True Combos at (DI up): 38%-53%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Utilt via AD from 0%-28%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-15%

Spoiler: Fox

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 20%-56%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 20%-56%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 20%-56%
-Shield: Can shield against Jab 1 after Dthrow from 0%-15%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to double jump out of combo at relevant %s

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 37%-56%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 37%-56%
-True Combos at (DI up): 37%-56%
-Shield: Can shield against Utilt after Dthrow from 0%-31%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to double jump out at relevant %s

General Checkmate Range: 93%-122%

Spoiler: Captain Falcon

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 34%-72%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 34%-71%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 34%-71%
-Shield: Can shield against Jab 1 from 0%-6%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to double jump out at relevant %s

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 45%-83%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 45%-64%
-True Combos at (DI up): 45%-82%
-Shield: Can shield against Utilt after Dthrow from 0%-19%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant %s
-Jump: Unable to double jump out at relevant %s

General Checkmate Range: 109%-121%

Spoiler: Pit/Dark Pit

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 43%-57%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 43%-57%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 43%-57%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 9%-42%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 9%-42%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 43%-71%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 43%-62%
-True Combos at (DI up): 43%-71%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Utilt via AD from 0%-36%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-36%

Spoiler: Link

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 39%-63%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 39%-63%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 39%-63%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 22%-33%
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-22%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 45%-70%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 45%-59%
-True Combos at (DI up): 45%-69%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: ???
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 0%-22%

Spoiler: Meta Knight

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 20%-56%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 20%-56%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 20%-56%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 5%-19%
-Jump: Unable to double jump out of combo at relevant %s

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 29%-56%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 29%-56%
-True Combos at (DI up): 29%-56%
-Shield: Utilt whiffs at %s he could shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid combo via AD from 0%-27%
-Jump: Unable to jump out of combo at relevant %s

Spoiler: Marcina

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 36%-51%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 36%-51%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 36%-51%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid Jab 1 via AD from 10%-30%
-Jump: Able to double jump out of combo from 10%-26%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 37%-59%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 37%-59%
-True Combos at (DI up): 37%-58%
-Shield: Unable to shield
-Airdodge: Can avoid combo via AD from 0%-25%
-Jump: Able to double jump out of combo from 0%-16%

Spoiler: Greninja

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 27%-61%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 27%-61%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 27%-61%
-Shield: Can shield against Jab 1 after Dthrow from 0%-24%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant percents
-Jump: Unable to double jump out of combo at relevant percents

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 42%-62%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 42%-61%
-True Combos at (DI up): 42%-61%
-Shield: Unable to shield at relevant percents
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid combo via AD at relevant percents
-Jump: Unable to double jump out of combo at relevant percents

General Checkmate Range: 106%-116%

Spoiler: Ike

Jab
-True Combos at (no DI): 50%-70%
-True Combos at: (DI away from Robin): 50%-70%
-True Combos at ( DI up): 50%-67%
-Shield: Can shield against Jab 1 after Dthrow from 0%-10%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid via AD at relevant percents
-Jump: Can double jump out of combo from 10%-28%

Utilt
-True Combos at (no DI): 50%-75%
-True Combos at (DI away from Robin): 50%-65%
-True Combos at (DI up): 50%-74%
-Shield: Able to shield against Utilt after Dthrow from 0%-17%
-Airdodge: Unable to avoid combo via AD at relevant percents
-Jump: Unable to double jump out of combo at relevant percents

 

[Zareidriel]

I really like Nah's jab and uptilt combos. It's something I've totally forgotten about until coming back to this thread. The problem is remembering to incorporate it into one's gameplay...if only there was a way to have a bunch of Robin information in one place...! Haha. Hoping there'll be time for that this semester.

But anyway, the reason for this necromancy was because I think I remember a thread or something that also had the MAX percents for Checkmate as well as the original minimums. If anyone remembers where to find it could they direct me toward it please? I'm often finding myself going for the combo around 120% against various characters with no clue as to if it's gonna actually work or not.

 

[Nah]

Zareidriel I found this in another thread that lists the minimum and maximum values that Checkmate should true combo at for the entire cast (including all DLC characters): https://www.dropbox.com/s/b610pltvl1kesyw/Checkmate min- max ko%s.xlsx?dl=0

Said thread also contained numbers for Dthrow->Utilt.

Have....you really never done Dthrow->Jab/Utilt before tho?

 

[Zareidriel]

OH. Dthrow->Jab/Utilt. Duh. For some reason something I read made me think it was Jab/Utilt->Grab combos. Haha. Well it's even more particularly nice to have the data for the former thing that I actually know bout and use already.

Great, thanks for finding that Nah, that was the exact thing I was looking for.

 

[BballLuke13]

Oh, I should probably add this juicy data to the Pastebin. Is this all up-to-date with the latest patch?

 

[Dollabills]

Not sure where else to put this but I labbed the checkmate %'s for Bayo, Corrin, and Cloud. These are the minimum percentages that will kill at FD with Robin at 0%, not the true combo percentages. It would be nice if someone could check and see if they're correct.

Bayonetta: 94
Corrin: 99
Cloud: 100
Cloud with limit: 103

I don't think this thread is used anymore, but when I find time I'm going to check all characters for minimum %'s and true combo %'s for checkmate. I also want to see if Fthrow - Thoron will ever true combo on any characters. I've been unsuccessful so far, so if anyone has tested that at length let me know.

 

[Dollabills]

Finished labbing out checkmate, these are the minimum kill %'s I found. Note that I did it in training so there's no fresh move bonus and it's possible you can get a % or two lower if you've just lost your stock. This is FD/no rage. The first percentage is the original from the first poster, the one in parentheses is the value I found. Bayo, Corrin, and Cloud I have done myself so there's no original. Mewtwo I found the same value.

BAYONETTA 92
BOWSER 110 (108)
BOWSER JR. 97 (102)
CAPTAIN FALCON 108 (105)
CHARIZARD 104 (99)
CLOUD 101, 104(Limit)
CORRIN 99
DARK PIT 97 (95)
DIDDY KONG 95 (96)
DONKEY KONG 115 (113)
DR. MARIO 98 (96)
DUCK HUNT DOG 97 (96)
FALCO 91 (89)
FOX 88 (86)
GANONDORF 107 (106)
GRENINJA 91 (90)
IKE 106 (104)
JIGGLYPUFF 74 (73)
KING DEDEDE 121 (119)
KIRBY 80 (82)
LINK 102 (101)
LITTLE MAC 97 (94)
LUCARIO 95 (102)
LUCAS 91 (90)
LUCINA 95 (94)
LUIGI 92 (90)
MARIO 97 (96)
MARTH 95 (94)
MEGA MAN 105 (103)
META KNIGHT 88 (86)
MEWTWO 83
MII BRAWLER
MII GUNNER
MII SWORDFIGHTER
MR. GAME & WATCH 79 (78)
NESS 91 (90)
OLIMAR 85 (83)
PAC-MAN 93 (92)
PALUTENA 89 (87)
PEACH 88 (85)
PIKACHU 80 (84)
PIT 97 (95)
R.O.B. 102 (101)
ROBIN 96 (95)
ROSALINA & LUMA 82 (80)
ROY 100 (99)
RYU 100 (98)
SAMUS 100 (98)
SHEIK 87 (85)
SHULK 101 (99)
SONIC 95 (92)
TOON LINK 91 (88)
VILLAGER 94 (92)
WARIO 104 (102)
WII FIT TRAINER 92 (90)
YOSHI 96 (94)
ZELDA 89 (87)
ZERO SUIT SAMUS 89 (88)

 

[WindHero]

I think the discrepancy between numbers could be from a patch since the first labbing. Not sure if the original numbers factored in DI or not either, which could be the other explanation.

 

[Dollabills]

I assumed patches might have been a contributing factor, as well as perhaps weight changes for the very few characters that have been buffed/nerfed in weight. The only value I have no explanation for my discrepancy is Charizard. I imagine that because of Charizard's air speed/acceleration he may be able to get out but I haven't checked that out yet. Also forgot to add Monados, so I'm gonna drop my link here.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1USrpy3pfRm-T_lDMlawgKL4it2jyTaU6u-Y2scf1Eew/edit?usp=sharing

This one has mins closer to mine in general, but it also has max %'s, which I have not labbed yet.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b610pltvl1kesyw/Checkmate min- max ko%s.xlsx?dl=0