Dthrow - The Bread and Butter Move of Palutena

[mimgrim]

So what is so great about Palutena's Dthrow? Well this particular move pretty much leads into all of her aerials as well as her Usmash. Dthrow > any aerial or Usamsh are all legitimate combos/strings and is he most of her combo game will work, small bursts of 1-2 combo strings to rack up damage. Dthrow also allows for set-up into the higher precintle then just low to mid as well. Which gives her a reliable kill set-up with Dthrow > Uair or Usmash (or Dair if at the edge). Palutena's grab game is going to be extremely important to her meta and fishing for that grab will be a big part of her play.

So how exactly do we get the grab then?

Well the easiest and most common way is Jab > Grab at mid to high percents, doesn't work as well at lower percents. You will also want to avoid dash grabbing due to the lagginess, if you are running then shield > grab is way more reliable or pivot grab, which you can do in the dash animation as well unlike shield grabbing (Turn in the running or dash animation and immediately press the grab button, if you are to slow you will do a pivot Ftilt instead).

If you give her the Sspeical called Super Speed she can grab out of it as well at a high speed, though it will be her dash grab and if you try to shield during it you will spot dodge. Nevertheless the speed boost she gains out of the move can take the opponent off guard for an easy grab.

If you give her the Dspecial know as Lightweight she will receive a significant boost in movement speed. Like Super Speed but you have more control over her and can shield grab when you run.

The you have then general stuff like punishing shield happy players, punishing laggy moves, ect...

Follow ups of Dthrow are as follow;

Dthrow > Fair
Dthrow > Fair > Fair
Dthrow > RAR Bair
Dthrow > Nair
Dthrow > Uair (kills)
Dthrow > Dair (Kills at edge or can use as a tech chase)
Dthrow > Running Usmash (Kills)


Discuss more ways for Palutena to get the grab in and more follow-ups she can do out of Drthow.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Thank you. I was looking for something like this. I have known many of these for a while now but some I did not, like Up Smash. Do you need to Dash to follow it up?

Also, you can pivot grab out of Super Speed.

Simple Mixup: Super Speed. If the hitbox on it connects, you can follow up with an attack. If it's blocked, you can still go for the pivot grab.

 

[mimgrim]

Yea, you need to run to be able to connect Usa\mash and you need to be quick about it, but if done right it will connect. I didn't try pivoting with Super Speed though, thanks for that.

 

[TheTrueLombardi]

I discovered everything you mentioned yesterday. I tested with a buddy. Doesn't work as well on light characters. They can vector out and some don't have to such as jiggs. Also for mid to heavy weigh characters..... down throw to up air is more reliable and it's a guaranteed kill on most characters at high damage, up smash can be avoided unless caught off guard. I'll try to be more active and share things on here as I find them. She's also my main.

Btw, fair auto-cancel to grab works pretty well at lower percents.

 

[mimgrim]

@ TsuKiyoMe How the hell are you pivoting out out Super Speed? Everytime I try to turn around in that move she comes to a dead stop.

Btw, fair auto-cancel to grab works pretty well at lower percents.

What's the window for this? Is it at the very to of her short hop, which I thought was just her finishing the attack before landing? Or is the window for ACing Fair somewhere else?

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Back + L at the same exact time. The timing is really strict but trust me with practice it does work.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I love her down smash, and the combos. It's so fun!

Question: Why doesn't jab to grab work as well at lower percents than higher? If it has to do with knockback, I didn't know % affects knockback in smash.

 

[Naisora]

didn't know % affects knockback in smash.

Uhh...

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

LOL sorry, I meant STUN.

STUN!!!

 

[mimgrim]

I love her down smash, and the combos. It's so fun!

Question: Why doesn't jab to grab work as well at lower percents than higher? If it has to do with knock back, I didn't know % affects knock back in smash.

It's about hitstun more then knock back. At lower percents the opponent takes less knock back which allows them to act before you can grab out of Jab, since you have to wait for Jab to end. Jab doesn't have much knock back at any percent at mid to higher percents opponents take more hitstun though.

And yea KB is affected by percentage as is hitstun.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Interesting, so even though it's a jab, the hitstun still increases? That's pretty sick ;O

 

[-Jax]

I didn't know % affects knockback in smash.

This just made my morning, lol.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

So in the OP it says Dthrow > Anyair is a decent combo, but I've only been able to Dthrow into Fair and Nair. Am I doing something wrong? Or are Bair, Uair, and Dair from Dthrow not true combos? Dthrow off a ledge true comboing into Dair would be pretty terrifying.

 

[Big-Cat]

Reposting what I said in the social thread.

So I was testing some potential mixups reflector when I made an accidental discovery. I DThrow'd Pac-Man at the edge. I do reflector by accident and he tries to tumble back to the stage. The Pac-Man goes through the reflector but his descent is greatly slowed down, leaving him open for an attack.

I'm gonna mess around with this more, but this could be some deadly stuff.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hey guys, I just realized -- since in Smash 4 you can cancel the start of a dash into anything else, you can actually do standing pivot grabs very easily. I haven't been able to test it out a lot, but it has potential to be better than a standing grab in 100% of situations, because Palutena's pivot grab is great range and is pretty fast.

At the very least, it will be better than a normal standing grab in many situations. For example, someone approaches you with a fair and you block it, they land slightly too far from your standing grab, while your dash grab will be too slow.

Or maybe he lands really close to you and you can standing grab him, but you're not sure if he will recover from the lag and grab you first or not, so instead you go slightly backwards while also pivot grabbing, that way you're out of his range while you're still within his.

Or when you're doing the jab -> grab combo, if he's slightly too far away you can do a super short pivot and do a pivot grab.

I wonder how fast you can do this dash into pivot grab, I am doing it pretty fast but I wonder if her dash can be cancelled on frame 1.

So in the OP it says Dthrow > Anyair is a decent combo, but I've only been able to Dthrow into Fair and Nair. Am I doing something wrong? Or are Bair, Uair, and Dair from Dthrow not true combos? Dthrow off a ledge true comboing into Dair would be pretty terrifying.

It depends on their DI; just gotta react. Not all options will be available unfortunately X)

 

[mimgrim]

Dair doesn't work to well at high percents but instead more around mid to mid-high percents. You gotta be really quick and really precise with it.

Uaire doesn't work very well at low percents, you shouldn't be using it at low percents anyway, but rather mid and high percents. I've been able to go Dthrow > Uair at even 150% before the oppoenet is able to react. You just need to read how the opponents vectors.

Bair needs to be RAR'd and needs to be done rather quick and requires a bit of precision.

 

[κomıc]

D-throw to Angelic Missile is also great.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

How do you RAR in smash 4 anyways? Never did it in Brawl either.

Thanks in advance.

 

[mimgrim]

Run > Turnaround > Jump

 

[Cap'nChreest]

D-throw>charge up smash>they air dodge (because you've been following up the down throw the whole match) they have landing lag>release the charged up-smash>kill. lol

Its so satisfying to get that on someone.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Run > Turnaround > Jump

Easiest input to RAR out of Down Throw (assumes default controls):

Down throw => Forward, Back => X~A + Forward

After you input the back, slide your thumb from X to A. While sliding your thumb, tap forward again. After practicing for 20 minutes last night, I was able to get it with a 80 to 90% consistency. This is probably going to be one of my preferred ways to kill now as it's very easy and fast.

I'm still struggling to hit the timing on Up Air and Down Air. I think Up Smash is kind of off the table in some matches as a kill option. They air dodge before it comes out due to how far they get sent. And if you charge it, they'll still drift away from the terrible horizontal hitbox.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Up-Air is a nice combo option for me along with Up-Smash. F-Air seems difficult to hit sometimes though. Seems like I need to learn to slide that Circle Pad about like those Jiggs-players do to get best out of Palutena's air game.

 

[overgamer]

Dthrow to Uair is never is almost never a real combo. If you have too much rage effect, your opponent is too floaty or too damaged, he can always air dodge it. It works on bad vectoring though, like vectoring up. Same for Dair.

You should always try to bait the air dodge and punish it, as they'll always think they could still be hit by it and will air dodge most of the time. If they don't, just apply a 50/50.

Dthrow to Usmash is unreliable, as your opponents can move backward, forward, or not move during their air dodge.
Dthrow to Fair is the most reliable option most of the time. Still, rage effects destroys it past 80 or 90%. Why can't we turn it off, seriously...

 

[D1]

Never knew dthrow to usmash worked. Dthrow uair is a true combo at kill percents but you have to be extremely quick with it. Tap jump on works wonders.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Never knew dthrow to usmash worked. Dthrow uair is a true combo at kill percents but you have to be extremely quick with it. Tap jump on works wonders.

Was telling you last night it worked. It only works on certain characters though, such as Captain Falcon.

 

[mimgrim]

You have to be quick with all of the follow-ups really. Basically you need to know the exact moment you can first run out of Dthrow. It will end up being a lot easier once the Wii-U version comes out and we get the precision of the GC controller.

 

[-Jax]

You have to be quick with all of the follow-ups really. Basically you need to know the exact moment you can first run out of Dthrow. It will end up being a lot easier once the Wii-U version comes out and we get the precision of the GC controller.

A trick I like to use to RAR out of dthrows (which seems a staple on a lot of characters now compared to brawl) is to hold away from your opponent as the animation plays out. This way you can both see exactly when the dthrow ends, as well as turning around as soon as possible so you can easily jump and bair. Though I'm not sure if there's any forward momentum lost doing it this way, it makes bairs out of dthrows much more reliable for me.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

You have to be quick with all of the follow-ups really. Basically you need to know the exact moment you can first run out of Dthrow. It will end up being a lot easier once the Wii-U version comes out and we get the precision of the GC controller.

No, you're right. You have to be near frame perfect to get the Up Smash but it works on everyone, even Jigglypuff and Wario who normally get out of it. Jigglypuff you especially have to be perfect on because if they Vector up, you can't Up Air... they seem to go too high.

 

[MANG]

Thanks for posting this man

Definitely an important move for palutena

I really enjoy her playstyle - requires you to know the other character in addition to how to perform those 1-2 combos that end up being more important than they seem

 

[mimgrim]

So with the little thing I found about Lightweight and platforms.

Getting followups from Dthrow is going to be even better.

 

[JayWon]

Has anyone figured out how to connect with her other throws?

 

[Rashid]

You can try Celestial Fireworks instead of Fair if they DI away and you still want to get a vertical KO.

 

[soru]

Has anyone figured out how to connect with her other throws?

I don't think you should be going for any other throws unless you're planning on killing them (bthrow) or throwing them off stage (fthrow/bthrow). Not really sure what purpose uthrow serves aside from KOing at high percents on high platforms.

 

[ChivalRuse]

It's NOT hard to read rolls and punish with grab. You just have to get a feel for your opponent's rhythm of offense and defense. Palutena's dash speed is great.

 

[Death Arcana]

jab - grab is much tighter to do now imo

 

[Hydde]

Theres a way to do a grab cancel during the dash aniamtion?. I used to do it in melee, but i cant do it in smash4 for some reason.
I did it in melee by running and then pushing up+zbutton

 

[Rashid]

I don't think you can jump-cancel grabs in this game.

 

[mimgrim]

Theres a way to do a grab cancel during the dash aniamtion?. I used to do it in melee, but i cant do it in smash4 for some reason.
I did it in melee by running and then pushing up+zbutton

Sounds like you are describing a Jump Cancel Grab which cannot be done in this game, or Brawl for that matter.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Theres a way to do a grab cancel during the dash aniamtion?. I used to do it in melee, but i cant do it in smash4 for some reason.
I did it in melee by running and then pushing up+zbutton

Closest you're going to get is Shield Dash Grab which is strictly better than Dash Grabbing.

Dash, Shield, A.

 

[Hydde]

I see is ee. Thanks