Dthrow: Retested. *Info on MK tech cases and other characters!*

[B.A.M.]

Dont Move: a Dthrow Re-analysis

Introduction

Snake's Dthrow is one of the pinnacles of Snakes game. It can that sweet extra damage, or in the hands of a top Fox Hound member, a game ender. So I know my good friend Susa <3 compiled a dthrow chart ages ago to better the tech-chase game. Now the game has changed from then and so has snake's tech chasing. However theres seems to be more that needs to be tested. So I, along with some help from my fellow Labbies, am going to start retesting something and what they translate to in terms of covering options. If there is anything that you know that isnt documented in the OP of Susa's thread I would hope that you would place it in this thread so i can post it in the OP. I really wish I couldve gotten this done for Apex, as certain findings may prove VERY useful v. MK, however I still need to properly test how the info translate and how practical it can be in the right hands.

As the weeks progress, I will be filling this up with info found and tested.

New Info Tested by Xeylode!!!

You cannot jab and shield before Meta Knight hits you with an attack after Snake uses Dthrow.

However, MK cannot buffer the attack. You can buffer standing or rolling by keeping the control stick held in a direction. The Jab and shield trick will work if MK is just one frame off in trying to do the get-up attack the moment he can from a dthrow.

This is not one of those guarantee things, but since it cannot buffered, it must be mashed or timed which means there is room for error. And with having to time a one frame window, I would say this is a pretty solid method for covering 3 of meta knights options. Jab will hit if he does nothing. Jab will miss if he does the get-up attack or stand, then shield grab the attack or stand option. Covering rolls are useless with this method UNLESS AN OPPONENT IS IN THE CORNER. In these cases, this can cover virtually anything with the inclusion of bair and dair chases OoS. u can just react before shielding too.


Edit: it seems to be universal. Any character put into a DownWaitU (the animation Snake puts characters in after dthrow) cannot buffer a get-up attack.

This is the list of characters who dthrow -> buffered jab will work on given no option selected in the DownWaitU animation. If any of these characters have get-up attacks on frame 16 or higher, I think jab -> ftilt or Jab -> shield is a solid method against these characters. After that, it would be a matter of cover a roll or in place option.
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DK
Wario
Bowser
Link
Rob
Kirby
MK
DDD
Wolf
Jiggs
Ike
G&W
Charizard
Ivy


Marth
[COLLAPSE="Hidden"]
Some of the first info we were testing ( im sure a ton of you snakes know this already) is the punishing Marth's buffered froll. Marth has 2 frame less of invincibility on his start up. This allows us to do things like buffer ftilt him if we believe hes going for that option or waiting. However there is one problem

Ftilt 1

Base Damage: - All 8
Base Knockback – 32/32/1E
Knockback gain – 4B/64/4B
Weight Knockback – 14(only the hitbox that launches you)
Hitbox comes out at frame - 4
First IASA Frame – 11(for ftilt 2 ONLY)
Direction – 275(only the hitbox that launches you), 361
Total frames - 32
Miscellaneous – Only one of the hitboxes will launch you. That hitbox is IN one of the hitboxes that flinches you. Odd.
Hitbox duration - 2
Landing Lag -
Tripping rate(If any) – 0%
Hitlag multiplier – x1
SDI potential – x1

in other words if you wanted to block after ftilt, you would 21 frames to do so. So you could see how that ruins covering other options. However...........

Jab 1

Base Damage - 4
Base Knockback - 0
Knockback gain - 64
Weight Knockback – 1E/1E/14
Hitbox comes out at frame - 3
First IASA Frame – 6(for jab2 only)/16 (for everything else)
Direction -361/80/88
Total frames - 23

If you buffer a jab, you can not only punish a buffered froll and go into an ftilt or grab, but you gain enough time to deal with anything else, whether it be get up, get up attack, wait, etc.

Areas of interest

Snake always loves platform tech chasing.period. However for this particular MU dont be afraid to grab marth if your back is near the ledge. In this scenario you can effectively cover virtually any option with less reading needed. A scenario to consider: Marth is on the ledge, and due to a DS he has RCO lag. you have a nade in you hand walking backwards. Now if he attacks you he blows up. If he gets up, u can roll away and leave the nade for him to deal with. If he rolls, you dthrow him and tech chase or throw him back out there again to battle snakes great edgeguarding game. [/COLLAPSE]




As always, I would love ANY help the community can give, this isnt for me, I love the character to death but I definitely need to level mine up again before i take him to tournies. I want to see the Snake Community do well. So help if you can and thanks for reading!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hmm... I am still not sure exactly you would like to look into. The only thing that is really different from before though is that we have the ability to better look at hitbox and hurtbox stuff along with other fine tuned execution.

 

[zmx]

Great topic. As a snake main I've been wanting a proper guide on this for ages.

So on the characters listed we should do one jab immediately after downthrow? Because their getup attack isn't fast enough even if done instantly?

If anyone else has more information on tech chasing you think Snake mains don't utilize do let us know.

 

[**Havok**]

Something cool that works on MK but requires MASSIVE reaction. You can actually react to forward rolls (usually you have to read it) with a boost grab. Like see it and while he's still in rolling animation, you can grab him.

I hate his getup attack. If it wasn't for that the MU would be a solid 50-50.

 

[zmx]

Something cool that works on MK but requires MASSIVE reaction. You can actually react to forward rolls (usually you have to read it) with a boost grab. Like see it and while he's still in rolling animation, you can grab him.

I hate his getup attack. If it wasn't for that the MU would be a solid 50-50.

I've been wondering about this for some time. I think this works not just for meta but for a lot of characters especially those with short rolls like TL or Olimar. Sadly, I have yet to punish an option on reaction (other than back rolls). Though that's probably because I'm so used to either committing to direction for a pivot grab or shielding in place.

 

[Attila_]

i can do wario's rolls on reaction, but obviously not the getup attack. actually, this is the case for most characters.

i hate tech chasing dk. damn that awkward rolling animation.

something i dont think many people know. some characters (diddy kong is the main one, but i think there are others) get hit away if you use ftilt1 while theyre on the ground, unless you walk back slightly before using the ftilt. for whatever reason, this allows you to get both hits of ftilt, or mindgame into a regrab or something.

also, something i thought of the other day. if snake has -1 on the dthrow, then if you dthrow someone on the ledge, and they don't have an aerial equal to or faster than 4 frames, you should be able to buffer a jab before they can do anything, except airdodge. this obviously leaves most characters in unfavourable position. havent tested, but it makes sense, i think.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

There is something on MK, but it's sort of a gimmick and you give up tech chasing rolls.
Characters cannot buffer a get-up attack from the stance they are in. So, jab -> shield works to cover the 3 options other than roll. What you do when the jab hits is a mystery since it does not technically lead into anything guaranteed.

@Attila: Yeah, jab works well. However, some characters can fast fall before the jab comes out and grab the ledge. I honestly prefer to just Ftilt or Utilt. It happens too infrequently in a set I am never sure if the other player knows to avoid it or not.