Down throw guaranteed combos?

[TheRealSkid]

as the title suggests, is there ANYTHING guaranteed in any way from this that doesn't involve a hard Shakespearean read?

 

[Sonicninja115]

as the title suggests, is there ANYTHING guaranteed in any way from this that doesn't involve a hard Shakespearean read?

Edit: Thought this was the Bayonetta Forum...

 

[Chiroz]

as the title suggests, is there ANYTHING guaranteed in any way from this that doesn't involve a hard Shakespearean read?

No, there are none.

If the opponent knows to double jump away from Mewtwo all you get is to try to punish his landing since he now has no double jump. If he doesn't double jump you can punish any other action, provided you do a "hard Shakespearean read".

 

[Mr. B]

Combo thread please!

There is a thread dedicated to combos?

 

[BarSoapSoup]

At high %s, D-Throw can combo into F-Air at the ledge for a situational combo, tho I'm not sure how well this works

 

[BarSoapSoup]

D-Throw comboes into F-Air at the edge at high percentages, though I'm not sure how well this still is.

 

[Sonicninja115]

There is a thread dedicated to combos?

Woops, wrong forum.

Chiroz technically there are the ledge combos. dthrow-Fair/dtilt.

 

[Chiroz]

D-Throw comboes into F-Air at the edge at high percentages, though I'm not sure how well this still is.

Woops, wrong forum.

Chiroz technically there are the ledge combos. dthrow-Fair/dtilt.

No, I remember testing this out with someone after they had claimed the same thing. There was no combo, the opponent could jump or air dodge before Mewtwo could reach him.

I actually think D-Throw has negative advantage (the opponent can move first) but I've never tested it. I guess I'll lab it later today


Try to not spread misinformation guys, it keeps us back as a community. He asked for guaranteed stuff, not possible setups. I see a lot of misinformation on almost all the thread I go into.

 

[Sonicninja115]

No, I remember testing this out with someone after they had claimed the same thing. There was no combo, the opponent could jump or air dodge before Mewtwo could reach him.

I actually think D-Throw has negative advantage (the opponent can move first) but I've never tested it. I guess I'll lab it later today


Try to not spread misinformation guys, it keeps us back as a community. He asked for guaranteed stuff, not possible setups. I see a lot of misinformation on almost all the thread I go into.

Don't bother labbing that. I have it here. And, placebo on that point ended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maJSHyBSbM0
Fox has 1-3 frames it seems. It depends on how fast his jab is. ZSS might be able to DI down and jab at 0%, because she is sorta a FF? and has a frame 1 jab.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

No, I remember testing this out with someone after they had claimed the same thing. There was no combo, the opponent could jump or air dodge before Mewtwo could reach him.

I actually think D-Throw has negative advantage (the opponent can move first) but I've never tested it. I guess I'll lab it later today


Try to not spread misinformation guys, it keeps us back as a community. He asked for guaranteed stuff, not possible setups. I see a lot of misinformation on almost all the thread I go into.

Sorry. I did say I wasn't sure how well it actually worked.

 

[Chiroz]

Don't bother labbing that. I have it here. And, placebo on that point ended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maJSHyBSbM0
Fox has 1-3 frames it seems. It depends on how fast his jab is. ZSS might be able to DI down and jab at 0%, because she is sorta a FF? and has a frame 1 jab.

That isn't the correct way to test it though.

Landing eliminates hitstun and replaces it with landing lag. This is why Jab->D-Tilt works on most chars except the fastest of fallers. Basically your test isn't testing if D-Throw has advantage, it's just testing how fast those chars land.



In order to test if D-Throw can true combo to anything on the ledge the thing that needs to be tested is how much advantage does Mewtwo get if the opponent doesn't land.

Obviously this advantage goes up with damage which is why calculating it isn't exactly worth it. But as hitstun goes up so does the knockback anyways, so getting a "feel" for the advantage/disadvantage is a good place to start.

 

[Sonicninja115]

That isn't the correct way to test it though.

Landing eliminates hitstun and replaces it with landing lag. This is why Jab->D-Tilt works on most chars except the fastest of fallers. Basically your test isn't testing if D-Throw has advantage, it's just testing how fast those chars land.



In order to test if D-Throw can true combo to anything on the ledge the thing that needs to be tested is how much advantage does Mewtwo get if the opponent doesn't land.

Obviously this advantage goes up with damage which is why calculating it isn't exactly worth it. But as hitstun goes up so does the knockback anyways, so getting a "feel" for the advantage/disadvantage is a good place to start.

oh, I am past the dthrow at the ledge thing. I was dubious on that from the start.

The video was mainly meant to show that comboing is impossible, but you cannot be punished either. Also, Fox cannot jump away until 13%. so he cannot perform any action until landing until after 13%. To test frame advantage, I would want to find an aerial that becomes easily visible at the earliest frame possible right? So luigi Nair? And then I would want to buffer Shield with mewtwo and subtract the excess 2 frames from luigi to get the accurate number?

and the problem with my test is that they are stuck in hard landing lag, and not hitstun, so to get an accurate assessment, I would need to throw an opponent and have them do an action while Mewtwo shields, and then compare the actions and subtract the excess frames from the opponent?

example:
Mewtwo:
Frame 1 Dthrow
figurative 20 frames of lag in which Mewtwo buffers shield. (KH doesn't have throw FAF...)
unknown hitstun, in which opponent buffers frame 3 airdodge.
Mewtwo shields and then opponent airdodges 1 frame later. Opponent has a 1 frame advantage.

 

[Chiroz]

oh, I am past the dthrow at the ledge thing. I was dubious on that from the start.

The video was mainly meant to show that comboing is impossible, but you cannot be punished either. Also, Fox cannot jump away until 13%. so he cannot perform any action until landing until after 13%. To test frame advantage, I would want to find an aerial that becomes easily visible at the earliest frame possible right? So luigi Nair? And then I would want to buffer Shield with mewtwo and subtract the excess 2 frames from luigi to get the accurate number?

and the problem with my test is that they are stuck in hard landing lag, and not hitstun, so to get an accurate assessment, I would need to throw an opponent and have them do an action while Mewtwo shields, and then compare the actions and subtract the excess frames from the opponent?

example:
Mewtwo:
Frame 1 Dthrow
figurative 20 frames of lag in which Mewtwo buffers shield. (KH doesn't have throw FAF...)
unknown hitstun, in which opponent buffers frame 3 airdodge.
Mewtwo shields and then opponent airdodges 1 frame later. Opponent has a 1 frame advantage.

Yes, you are correct. But since I don't have a recording device or knowledge of looking at frame by frame data what I do is look for aerials that can hit Mewtwo on a very specific frame.


For example Sheik's F-Air is frame 5-7, but she swing it from the top downwards, so she hits Mewtwo ether at frame 6 or 7. Knowing this, I just hold shield and wait for the sound. If it's a Perfect Shield then that means Mewtwo shielded anywhere between frame 4-6 which means there's a 3-5 frame disadvantage. If it's not a Percect Shield then Mewtwo shielded earlier than frame 4.

Then I start looking for other aerials and keep testing in this way until I am fairly sure of the exact frame disadvantage. It's not exactly the most accurate or effecient way, but I am fairly sure it's correct.

 

[Chiroz]

Also, I didn't know Fox couldn't jump. That's actually really useful info. I will need to lab out which char's can't jump and how much advantage Mewtwo has on those chars. It's obvious in your vid that Mewtwo seems to be able to act first but since Mewtwo has no move faster than frame 6 he isn't able to punish.

But depending on the frame advantage we could try going for really good mixups that might net us some good damage or lead to a combo.

 

[godogod]

So freaking weird the devs changed the angle of down throw in 1.1.3. They could have at least done something in 1.1.4.

 

[Chiroz]

After testing a bit, at 0% D-Throw is either -1, completely even or actually +1/2 frames advantage. I am more inclined to believe that at 0% it's completely even, but since training 1/4th speed jumps 2 frames every time it could be anywhere in between those 4 frames.

This is actually quite interesting.

 

[TheRealSkid]

While we're on the topic of confusion, can a midair confusion combo into an fair when they're at about 50?

 

[Chiroz]

While we're on the topic of confusion, can a midair confusion combo into an fair when they're at about 50?

It was actually a typo on my part. I meant to write D-Throw.

As for Confusion, no it doesn't combo, but it comes close to, so many times when you're opponent isn't expecting it you can still get the F-Air.

 

[EmpireCrusher203]

D-Throw to Side Smash usually hits at low percentages. Also try running Up smash, if on the Wii U, or have a New 3ds. Dash attacks works too, as well as Fair, and possibly Up tilt