Down B + Back Kick... Is it useful?

[_gold_]

I didn't use ZSS much in Brawl, but I don't think she could use her down B to bury/meteor people. Anyways, once I found out she could, I never use her down B + back kick any more. I mean, should I? If you don't land it, there's a ton of after lag. Plus, I find burying opponents much more useful than just a back kick. But I could be wrong. Should I still be using her back kick here and there?

 

[Vinylic.]

It is completely situational. Everything about ZSS is to find open spots and be aggressive as hell on the neutral game, so if you find a way to pull it off, it'll be because your opponent was scared.

 

[David Viran]

It kills pretty darn early and can be a super powerful meteor/spike. It's best to be comboed into or you could think if it this way if you can ground them you could have used the kick as well.

 

[pichuthedk]

There is ways to minimize the risks involved with her down b I'll prob make a guide or video god knows when.

But here's a tip if you can use down b kick and hit an opponent or their shield at a point high enough so that she lands on the top platform of bf that is the safest flip jump kick because even if there is no platform (fd/omegas) you will be able to act with jump or nair before she hits the ground.

 

[extremechiton]

You can also use down b to punish laggy moves, such as links bommerang launch
Also, point blank dsmash>down b back kick will always sweet spot the spike, to stage bounce (assume no teching) and can ko at high percents off the stage bounce

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Charged laser > dSpecial Kick kills relatively early and if you hit your opponent offstage with the laser the dSpecial kick spike kills at like 13%. Also punish laggy moves all day long.

 

[tonyz723]

Charged laser > dSpecial Kick kills relatively early and if you hit your opponent offstage with the laser the dSpecial kick spike kills at like 13%. Also punish laggy moves all day long.

Paralyzer (offstage hit) into flip jump is such a satisfying move to land

 

[Skwall]

That's THE move I use every time I can do it. It can kill everybody if your opponent is standing on the edge and have like 80/90%+

 

[Muffin!]

It's good to keep in mind that burying your opponent can be useless at low percentages as they escape too quickly for you to follow up. I probably use the back kick more than I don't. I don't use it when I go for a meteor, and I sometimes won't use it if they are in a sweet spot of damage and stage where I can't kill them, but can follow up a bury with a dsmash > fsmash

 

[extremechiton]

Sometimes ther burrying can happen by accident if they move into you at the last frames. It may be unintentional, but to follow up, you can do up air or nair.

 

[pichuthedk]

Burial is never useless ,free damage is always free damage and sometimes you want them to mash out and hit you so you can punish them.

 

[Skwall]

When I see that I accidentally bury my opponent with down b, what I do is that when Samus is bouncing after the burial, I tilt the control stick left or right a little bit in order to follow with an Up Special. If you are a little bit next to him, the Up Special is lethal when buried. (If your opponent has enough damage obviously)

 

[pichuthedk]

When I see that I accidentally bury my opponent with down b, what I do is that when Samus is bouncing after the burial, I tilt the control stick left or right a little bit in order to follow with an Up Special. If you are a little bit next to him, the Up Special is lethal when buried. (If your opponent has enough damage obviously)

Rule of thumb I tend to go by based off of experience is when the opponent is either
A) brain dead / unprepared / over 100 % = Land beside them pivot down smash -> boost kick
B) not brain dead / anticipating it/ 65-100% = land and boost kick them
C) under 40% take the free burial and retreat in the air , Or be a real G like @Dakpo and land -> up smash and then proceed to combo wombo combo them like a boss

 

[extremechiton]

D) style on them by burial, d smash, to down b kick,
And with the down b, of at the ledge, you can opt for standard down b and stomp spike them,
Run away down b sweet spot spike kick them
Or short hop down b sourspot kick

 

[Octavium]

Powerfull killmove that allows you to cancel your commitment of your down-b before returning to your initial Y-axis position by paying a hefty amount of ending lag (that beauty even has a meteor hitbox). There's a good amount of setups for it in my opinion, I even saw Choco run off stage then Down-B backwards to setup a meteor hitbox near the stage's ledge, I've been using it similarly also and it works pretty well.

Also the hitbox can be aimed on both sides of ZSS, which is pretty situational but makes you less vulnerable in some cases.

 

[pichuthedk]

@ extremechiton well I tend to do the beginning part of D) alot except I don't Flip jump unless its a kill I'd rather just boost kick them away, Now when they are stunned off stage from down smash or lasers without a second jump I tend to just footstool spike them because Zss can always recover In like all down low off stages cases (when there is a wall).

Personally seems like sourspot flip jump kick is a waste unless your killing them with it at over 100%.

@ Octavium you can always Flip jump kick people when recovering from the ledge and then just tether/tether cancel to the ledge as a safety precaution.

 

[TheTwistedHero]

I'd say it may be situational, but it's worth using if your opponent is off stage. You have a ton of control over your distance, and using the kick is sometimes easier to hit and just as useful to ensure a kill on any off stage survivors.

 

[extremechiton]

Powerfull killmove that allows you to cancel your commitment of your down-b before returning to your initial Y-axis position by paying a hefty amount of ending lag (that beauty even has a meteor hitbox). There's a good amount of setups for it in my opinion, I even saw Choco run off stage then Down-B backwards to setup a meteor hitbox near the stage's ledge, I've been using it similarly also and it works pretty well.

Also the hitbox can be aimed on both sides of ZSS, which is pretty situational but makes you less vulnerable in some cases.

somtimes when recovering, ill flip jump if ppl try to edge guard from below me.
that is a big no no on their part, because if they jump, ill stomp on them. and sometimes for good measure, ill activate the kick, and by chance, they get caught by it and it spikes them hard.

and sometimes if they are behind and below me, the back kick will get them.