Doubles In Sm4sh: Partner MU's and Playstyles

[IGottaStick]

This thread is basically about Match Up's with your partner in Sm4sh doubles. After seeing The Smash Theory video over doubles I was inspired to make this thread.
I want to talk about character MU's with each other when teaming and Playstyle MU's.

(I'm fairly new to Smash Boards so please tell me if I'm doing something wrong, this is my first thread!)


Please post your own playstyle MU's with partners, team strategies, and character MU's with partners!

 

[IGottaStick]

To start off, I'm going to talk about playstyle match ups with your partner.

I myself am have an extremely patient playstyle in Sm4sh and from what I have seen from my experience so far, I play well with other defensive players but not with offensive players. If I am playing a match in doubles with a random player who has an offensive playstyle, then we usually won't do so well. What will happen is usually I will get an early kill off of one of the opponents and then they will only focus on my partner. When this happens, I am forced to approach which is an option that can give my doubles character (Kirby) a bit of trouble. I will usually do well with a team mate that knows to run up and poke the enemies and then retreat and use me as a wall to cover him and get in hits while the other team is trying to deal with me. I will also do well with a partner who tries to stay close to me.

Now I want to talk about the playstyle/strategy of a team as a whole.

Once playstyle that I have used before is something that I call "Ice Climbers." It is basically when you and your teammate have similar playstyles and the two of you are doing similar things at the same time it is almost as if your to characters are a single entity. For example, sometimes when I play PM (Plz don't murder me for mentioning it here, it is only for an example) me and a friend would do doubles as Marth and Roy. We would play so similarly that we were like Ice Climbers with swords. An example in Sm4sh would be a team of villager's or a villager and another projectile based character setting up a wall of projectiles without hitting each other.

Another one that I mentioned before is the one where your team mate runs up and pokes the enemies and retreats to try and force an approach. In this one, your team mate acts like Falco's Laser did in Melee. You send them out to force an approach and they get annoying.

Now I want to talk about character match ups with my partner

I usually play Kirby in teams and my favorite partners are...


(I love this team mainly because you can get some sick Dair combos together and finish each other's uptilt combos)

And a heavy, usually
(I just love to swallow my team mate and spit them out at my opponent, they never see it coming. Also, the heavier the character, the more damage and knockback wjhen I sit them out at my opponent)


(Monado Kirby is God, Monado speed Kirby allows for easy Fair wall of pains, Buster Kirby can lead to inescapable (I think) Dair comboes. Also since armor Shulk is the heaviest character in the game, Spitting him out is basically a Falcon Punch with a moving Hitbox.

Please post your own playstyle MU's with partners, team strategies, and character MU's with partners!

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Working on getting a doubles team together for the summer. My partner is a jigglypuff main and I'm trying to figure out which of my characters would work best on a team with the puff. Mains are Peach and Dark Pit but I have experience with regular Pit, Greninja, Charizard and all of the Miis as well.

 

[IGottaStick]

@ P Pippin (Peregrin Took) It depends, do you use customs?

 

[icraq]

its hard to see any good team combos beyond villager/gnw centric teams. though i think gnw is less relevant now. double rushdown might counter pocket strats but doesnt negate them, and villager is a highly competent fighter/stock tank in doubles anyways.

so i think it comes down to who's balls do you want in villager's pocket. i dunno the answer to that.

i think better players will still beat this strat, like im sure zero and m2k wouldnt be defeated by this alone

 

[vegeta18]

what about the idea of having a support character and a tank/aggro character. This seems to be becoming popular in the meta now as well, nicole is a player who did very well with shugo in doubles at apex this year, and she is pretty much dedicated to the support role in doubles.Nicole and shugo mostly played sonic and zero suit samus. Sonic was the aggressor in most cases and nicole would support him with zero suit. Sonic would often rack up damage fast while zss would help him out everytime he was in a bad position as well as do anything possible to keep him alive. Dabuz has been doing this with his rosalina in doubles now, if you watch him in more recent tournaments, and i think this team structure can do very well even without a super strong gimick.

I tried this in doubles with a gannondorf player, and things worked very well too. The gannon would run in first, and basically tank all of the damage, while trading with both players on the opposing team. Everytime gannon was put in a bad position, like about to be gimped off stage, or thrown in the air to be juggled, i would use rosalina and luma, to control the other 2 players until gannon could reach the ground and re-establish stage control. Do you guys think team strategies like this have a future in doubles? and also what kind of combos do you think could do well with a support type character and someone else? what other characters do you think could make good supports? personally i think it may be possible with any zoning character teamed with a melee character. Little mac is an example of a character who could be extremely strong in doubles, if supported properly when he is put into bad situations.

I also tried this with falcon and rosa b4, and it worked pretty good.

 

[TheGameCrewNerds]

if you can be patient do because that can irritate people so they make mistakes

 

[AvariceX]

I've been teaming with a very good Little Mac player and starting to think that Little Mac + X is the best team the game where X is a character that:

-Is highly mobile


AND

-Can easily capitalize hard on Mac knocking opponents high into the air:


AND

-Can effectively harass from behind Little Mac without getting in harms way:


AND

-Can easily and quickly separate opponents when Mac is getting overwhelmed


AND

-Is top tier when/if it comes down to 1v1


Little Mac is the only character in the game who can legitimately fight 2 characters on the ground at the same time. Pair him up with a safe stock tank who can capitalize on the openings he can't reach, keep him alive, harass with impunity, and get in the fray when they really need to and I think you have the makings of the best possible doubles team. We've been running Mac/Diddy but I'm starting to think Pikachu might actually be the ideal partner for Mac. The only problem we've run into outside of getting completely outplayed is Pac-Man hydrant jank teams (Pac/Villager) and Pikachu really doesn't care about your camping. Then again Fox is the one with the reflector.

Anyway, the TL;DR is I think
/ OR
/ OR
/
is probably the best team in the game. The only barrier to me saying it's for sure the best is that Mac does have trouble with certain camping setups and I'm not sure if it holds him back too much.

 

[IGottaStick]

@ AvariceX , Also does well with . Not only does it Fit @ AvariceX 's idea of having a support and an Aggro character but she also has a custom UpSpecial called Farore's Squall that has more range. Not only that but it can create a vertical windbox that doesn't do damage. This can actually be utilized to rescue little Mac from off stage. Also, I saw this

Squall Boosting
By using Squall's windbox in doubles, Zelda can actually aid her team companion by pushing them towards enemies while using particularly slow attacks or charged Smashes. It also seems that Squall's traversing windbox can push certain projectiles like Phantom with it

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

@ P Pippin (Peregrin Took) It depends, do you use customs?

Sorry it took so long to get back to you I've got characters at the ready for both customs on and off. Customs off it's , customs on with EVO setups it's , and customs on any it includes .

I want a character with a reliable projectile since Puff doesn't have any, and I liked what @ AvariceX was saying about the Pits in conjunction with Little Mac since I'm so used to them. Not sure if Pit or Dark Pit would be better depending on what I want to do with the stage. DP seems better at getting the opponents to the other side, where as Pit keeps them closer. I'd also REALLY like to work with some of the gunner setups since they seem similar to Snake, who was my main in Brawl.

 

[TriTails]

My experience reeks of FG, but I like Luigi/Ganon. You basically has two powerhouses who one of them is the one of the best comboer in the game with amazing aerials and the other can basically kill you in 7 hits.

And also, Luigi gets a grab, Ganon basically ****s them out. Rinse wash dry repeat.

 

[IGottaStick]

@ P Pippin (Peregrin Took) , I personally think that either or would work the best with a Puff. With Peach, you could teach your friend how to catch and utilize your turnips. Puff can be scary with a turnip mainly because of her aerial mobility Also, (needs a bit more testing) but I think that puff can z-drop a turnip into rest. Mii Gunner would use an NSUD - 12X2 custom moveset (X meaning whatever you want.) Charge Shot because it's a good ranged kill move and it's easier to land in doubles. Stealth Burst because it can pop enemies up for Jiggs to hit and start comboes on. And bombdrop to apply immense pressure and also pop the opponent up. However if you are forced to use an EVO Custom Set then use his/her 1122 set.

 

[Xeze]

+ is a fun combination. Bowser can do his regular side-B and Mario uses regular FLUDD to push him and the grabbed opponent offstage for an easy suicide KO.

 

[TheGameCrewNerds]

+ is a fun combination. Bowser can do his regular side-B and Mario uses regular FLUDD to push him and the grabbed opponent offstage for an easy suicide KO.

the FLUUD has so many possibility's for example is can push the warlock punch to K.O

 

[DavemanCozy]

+ is a fun combination. Bowser can do his regular side-B and Mario uses regular FLUDD to push him and the grabbed opponent offstage for an easy suicide KO.

Ally and Holly (or the "Montreal Climbers" as Blacktwins calls them) have ran + doing the same thing with ROB's up throw.

See:

Spoiler

I've teamed with the player Avarice is talking about as well and agree that + has tons of potential. Little Mac's main weakness in singles is how he has literally zero air presence, which means he gets camped just by standing on the top of the Duck Hunt tree, the top platform of Battlefield, Smashville's platform moving away, etc. When you add a teammate that can cover this weakness, Little Mac's role turns into controlling the ground. Fox can do this quite well with his great mobility and fast vertical air speed.

AvariceX and Frupcakes got 4th at No Man's LAN, if I recall correctly.

We all want a Fruppy piece of Cake from @ DriedFrupcakes to succeed in doubles. <3

 

[ReturningFall]

I've been teaming with a very good Little Mac player and starting to think that Little Mac + X is the best team the game where X is a character that:

-Is highly mobile


AND

-Can easily capitalize hard on Mac knocking opponents high into the air:


AND

-Can effectively harass from behind Little Mac without getting in harms way:


AND

-Can easily and quickly separate opponents when Mac is getting overwhelmed


AND

-Is top tier when/if it comes down to 1v1


Little Mac is the only character in the game who can legitimately fight 2 characters on the ground at the same time. Pair him up with a safe stock tank who can capitalize on the openings he can't reach, keep him alive, harass with impunity, and get in the fray when they really need to and I think you have the makings of the best possible doubles team. We've been running Mac/Diddy but I'm starting to think Pikachu might actually be the ideal partner for Mac. The only problem we've run into outside of getting completely outplayed is Pac-Man hydrant jank teams (Pac/Villager) and Pikachu really doesn't care about your camping. Then again Fox is the one with the reflector.

Anyway, the TL;DR is I think
/ OR
/ OR
/
is probably the best team in the game. The only barrier to me saying it's for sure the best is that Mac does have trouble with certain camping setups and I'm not sure if it holds him back too much.

Ahaha. The inevitable Mac+X theorycrafting!

Personally, I teamed with a Mac at my most recent tourney as Yoshi. I think Yoshi's actually a better partner than Pika as his air mobility lets him really pester and capitalize on people in the air and he can safely projectile spam from far behind Mac while aiming at an opponent. Plus he's actually heavier than the top 3 you've listed. On the flip side, he's yet to meet competitive singles success like the others and is unlikely to develop any funny techniques to let him do so.

I will agree, Mac+X is probably one of the strongest team options possible. Mac is naturally suited to doubles when his support partner can bully people into not exploiting Mac's weaknesses.

 

[PUK]

@ AvariceX , Also does well with . Not only does it Fit @ AvariceX 's idea of having a support and an Aggro character but she also has a custom UpSpecial called Farore's Squall that has more range. Not only that but it can create a vertical windbox that doesn't do damage. This can actually be utilized to rescue little Mac from off stage. Also, I saw this

Farore squall doesn't help mac recovery at all. There is more chance it gimps it actually. The first hitbox of standard farore wind send mac straight up if he know the DI, effectively saving him most of the time.

 

[CNMNE]

Well, my favorite team with my friends is

but one of the most effective ones I've ever seen is

I play Peach, and Mega man picks up my slack if I mess up a combo with lemons or dashes, which unusually effective. Turnip + Z Dropped metal blade gimps into Peach bomber to Mega Man Utilt is ridiculous. Also, Peach can edge guard much further out than normal, because while she floats to her death with parasol, Mega Man can drop Rush and let Peach recover from un-thought-of depths.
Hope that helps!

 

[Mizzy Moe]

one of the best teams me and one of my friends have done is +

traps someone with pk fire and hurries in for a free rest and pk fire hits her outta rest as well but time it wrong and you just look stupid in the fire with your enemy

 

[ShadowShlong]

one of the best teams me and one of my friends have done is +

traps someone with pk fire and hurries in for a free rest and pk fire hits her outta rest as well but time it wrong and you just look stupid in the fire with your enemy

this seems like a weak gimmick than a strong team really. neither of them are particularly good at covering the others weaknesses or help the other out when being abused by the other team. also they'll both die fairly early (no stock tank)

 

[DriedFrupcakes]

Hey there, I'm the player that DavemanCozy and AvariceX have been talking about (I feel so popular)!

They've mostly covered my opinions about how Mac fairs in doubles but I'd also like to add that and also have extremely effective ways of helping hm to recover with little risk to themselves (Fox up-b carries Mac back onstage easily with the multiple hboxes and Diddy's uair comes out fast and pops him back up vertically for another chance to get onstage). The only concern is that needs to be careful getting underneath Mac while he's trying to side-b to recover because the Diddy might accidentally get wall spiked by the hook of Jolt Haymaker.

Other ways he benefits is by being covered by characters that aren't afraid to stay in the air and have strong mobility, as mentioned. I think would make a good partner for that reason, but not the best because his recovery hinders him from being totally bold offstage. dominates neutral and basically becomes an enormous pillar of 'you can't invade this space unless you want to get punished' which covers the entire middle of the stage, making it a lot harder for other teams to work together at all and keeps them separated. On top of that, Mac's probably one of the only if not the only character in the game that can actually feasibly hold his own in a 2 v 1 without being completely smothered (dsmash covers both of his sides very well and has little ending lag). On the ground of course - if he gets juggled in the air by two characters he's so toast.

Last thing to keep in mind regarding teaming with a Mac is that in singles he has very little combo potential because he needs to stay grounded (except for dtilt into things) and because his moves have insane knockback that don't allow for follow ups. However in doubles that knockback because much for useful by pushing opponents into your teammate while also dealing insane damage (as I've fsmashed someone into my teammate's usmash, basically killing the opponent at 65% with nothing they can do about it). On the same note, grab into usmash is so fast and deadly, and even throwing someone into Mac's usmash is nasty too.