Double Team's got a practical usage?

[MythTrainerInfinity]

So, I was screwing around against the CPU tonight... It was doing all sorts of crazy stuff like hitting with Double backwards FAir -> whatever, then it did something that made me realize we actually have a practical usage for Double Team.

Ledge attacks, especially those above 100%. Y'know why? Hitlag from their would wear off that ledge attack invincibility, making it so Double Team could possibly hit. Just need to space it, so that we don't accidentally go under the stage.

Thoughts?

 

[D. Disciple]

Yeah I practiced that already actually.

 

[culexus・wau]

You're late.

There are more legit uses than this too

but what do I know, I haven't played this game in months

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Then why haven't you guys shared any of this?

Spoiler

Or made a thread, so we can properly document this?

 

[Sunnysunny]

Well I was gonna go ahead and make a thread, but my wii's been busted for longer then I thought. Without actually testing my set ups, and baits its just theorycraft....But I think i'm on too something! I started thinking about it, and before ya know it was pacing around my room in a daze like a mad scientist. I think i've found some pretty damn practical set ups for DT.

I'll make a write up soon. Should be getting a new wii today.
Man, i'm gonna miss all my music hacks though. ._.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Double Team works pretty well against Pikachu when he's using Thunder. It can be done on reaction, and even if it doesn't connect, it can't really be punished.

Pretty situational, yes, but it's the only time I find myself using it.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Funny, I was actually watching a match of Trela vs Kprime today that made me think that. =p Trela was set up perfectly for a thunder and airdodged but got zapped anyways where DT would have saved em. Its hard to think of though in the moment.

 

[D. Disciple]

Then why haven't you guys shared any of this?

Spoiler

Or made a thread, so we can properly document this?

Metagame Discussion featuring Ksizzle. We discussed it for ways to counter planking, getting on stage, baiting and all that.

 

[culexus・wau]

Metagame Discussion featuring Ksizzle. We discussed it for ways to counter planking, getting on stage, baiting and all that.

This.

General disinterest in bringing it up again too.

whats the point with the state of this game right now lol.

[man I never thought I'd be hearing myself say those words]

 

[Dexident]

I love using double team. It's a powerful kill move when fresh and at a high percent.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

The chat with Ksizzle had so much meaningless text, so I kinda just skimmed over it...

DT should not really be relied on until we know exactly to use it for. Against better players they will probably fall for it once or twice max, but afterwards you'll get punished hard for using it.

What about dealing with good Snakes and their nade placement? Our shields never have a chance against that

 

[phi1ny3]

This move is so hype, it's a death taunt!

Pikmin gimmick approach
Grenade/mortar gimmick clear
Thunder gimmick escape
Banana gimmick approach
Dumb autopilot falco/generic camping gimmick derp punish
Tornado gimmick escape
hard reeeeeeedz

sadly, most of these are replacable by tactics that are either safer, more reliable, or give better reward. The main problem is the awful combination of a move that requires you to hard read their hard read, and having the dumbest cooldown ever, combined with the lack of a counter "stun jacket" to at least make sure you're ensured with the move, the only thing redeeming is it's frame 7, invincibility, and the mobility combined into the attack giving some barely niche uses. For example, if diddy commits because he thinks he's got a peanut hit -> banana toss (or just the banana toss) to get in on you, you can trade. The problem? Why not just throw AS, shield, or bait it out of him, if you read it? Some of the other niche uses work sparingly because it's an unorthodox move to deal with something both people are already aware of, and introducing a surprise factor may work on occasion in this case (pikmin on you, or popping out of tornado because they messed up inputs after sucking you in).

you heard it there folks, all we have learned for uses of DT.

As far as the snake scenario, the problem with snake is his oos punishing is very good, it's not a bad idea to try, but it's equally as effective to watch the snake and observe if he's cooking or not, and push on and ignore the grenades (without being completely careless around them) to apply pressure. Trying to do it in CQC will often set you back in a similar position if he blocks it, you're prone to either getting hit by the punish when your invincibility wears off, or you're back in shielding his tilt or him grabbing you. It's something that warrants maybe some testing, but this move is seriously the kind you pull out like once a game against a good player (in friendlies/mms/crews, it gets a lot of hype though). It's a shame too, I loved this move to death when the game came out lol. I wouldn't completely go against testing it, but when you test it in friendlies or whatnot, take note of the situation, and if you get punished, why it happened, so you have a detailed analysis of when it works and when it doesn't.

 

[D. Disciple]

The chat with Ksizzle had so much meaningless text, so I kinda just skimmed over it...

DT should not really be relied on until we know exactly to use it for. Against better players they will probably fall for it once or twice max, but afterwards you'll get punished hard for using it.

What about dealing with good Snakes and their nade placement? Our shields never have a chance against that

It was when we did voice chats on skype than actual typing.

You can just dt through the nades, or bas them, perfect shield to insta-throw.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Viola~
I've got my wii back at last~ Prepare thine body and brain for a knowledge tsunami~!
Write up very soon. :> I'm super proud of this.

 

[culexus・wau]

Purpose of double teaming grenades and such is to avoid damage/avoid getting killed.

I seldom try to go on the offensive after a explosive double team confirm on snake.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm way late on this but felt like posting. DT to me has good uses for utility, possible KO move, and evasion. DT is great and safe to use off-stage for when you wanna momentum cancel with a situational choice to DT projectiles that try to gimp you / KO you and slide intangible closer to stage without double jump unless needed for horizontal launches. On-stage DT being reversed or not can punish slow get-up attacks over 100% like MTI said that are spaced well to avoid sliding off and under stage ledge(s). From camping long range projectiles granting stage control, Lucario can make DT useful to close some gap without being too close. DT normally used for hard reads and evasion from bad situations that scream shield break such as a explosion trap of nades and landmine / C4 or incoming mortar crashing down on you.

If trying to regain stage control is too much and you get pushed back towards the ledge on stage find a way to get out of there and RDT to cling under stage (DEPENDING ON STAGE) and take it easy and think. DT slide into cling allows you at least 3 seconds of patience to think and unless they're MK, they won't challenge you from being way under. Pretty much all of my input on DT's practical uses everyone else gave good scenarios.

Personally enjoy DT'ing autopiloters with their projectile game with the huge exception to pikachu with the classic jump > Tjolt and coming down storming us and get bopped by the slide. Other examples that reflect this strategy is Mario with SH fireballs and coming in to grab us while in shield or Luigi SH fireball into a possible Cyclone. Many other scenarios that I won't discuss. Conclusion to DT on stage is used to prevent shield poke and sitting in shield less but also DT any charged smashes instead of being pressured to sit in shield.

Again sorry for the long post =/