Does Ness have any footstool combos?

[Lochy]

I'm curious cause i just saw a falcon thread showing his various footstool combos. If I find any or you guys do post it here!

 

[Ranias]

Don't think he does since none of his attacks hit downward fast enough, but footstool is still good to use for gimping.

Well, maybe he can do something on stage, but he is probably too floaty to follow up well.

Yeah, I just watched that video in the thread you mentioned. All of those combos start off with a Down Air. Ness's is just too slow.

You can do something similar to a footstool combo with Nair at certain percentages though, check out these threads:

Reverse Nair -> Reverse D-Tilt -> Reverse D-Smash: http://smashboards.com/threads/announcing-a-new-true-combo-with-ness.401667/#post-19136512

Nair -> Jab Lock combo: http://smashboards.com/threads/jab-lock-set-up-percentages.398172/#post-19010219

 

[Lochy]

Don't think he does since none of his attacks hit downward fast enough, but footstool is still good to use for gimping.

Well, maybe he can do something on stage, but he is probably too floaty to follow up well.

Yeah, I just watched that video in the thread you mentioned. All of those combos start off with a Down Air. Ness's is just too slow.

You can do something similar to a footstool combo with Nair at certain percentages though, check out these threads:

Reverse Nair -> Reverse D-Tilt -> Reverse D-Smash: http://smashboards.com/threads/announcing-a-new-true-combo-with-ness.401667/#post-19136512

Nair -> Jab Lock combo: http://smashboards.com/threads/jab-lock-set-up-percentages.398172/#post-19010219

Cool thanks man i try to experiment if i can do any.

 

[Earthbound360]

The thing is, Ness can do cool things out of a footstool, but he has no viable way of setting them up. Ness can jab lock into bat if he short hop footstools someone close enough to the ground.

If you footstool someone off of the ground, you can get a DJC PKF into anything you want, but that's pretty impractical to set up.

 

[kennypu]

Ness can footstool->nair. that's a true combo and it's been that way since brawl.

also, let me go find you guys the vine

EDIT:



here you go. One of the JP Players on the JP Skype Group found a jab reset (albeit, not a jab) combo out of uair->footstool->nair. I don't know how you would follow up, but it's worth noting

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness can footstool->nair. that's a true combo and it's been that way since brawl.

also, let me go find you guys the vine

EDIT:



here you go. One of the JP Players on the JP Skype Group found a jab reset (albeit, not a jab) combo out of uair->footstool->nair. I don't know how you would follow up, but it's worth noting

Umm... crazy idea, but could you get an immediate PKT2 after that getup? O_o
I need to test this...

 

[kennypu]

Umm... crazy idea, but could you get an immediate PKT2 after that getup? O_o
I need to test this...

I think there's not enough time. If you do test it, can you see if the distance they travel is affected by DI, or if it's more or less constant? Because if they end up closer, it may be possible, or at least other follow ups would be possible.

 

[Kodystri]

I think there's not enough time. If you do test it, can you see if the distance they travel is affected by DI, or if it's more or less constant? Because if they end up closer, it may be possible, or at least other follow ups would be possible.

I gotten a pkt2 from a grounded footstoolp to immediate on thunder.

 

[Noa.]

Ness can footstool->nair. that's a true combo and it's been that way since brawl.

also, let me go find you guys the vine

EDIT:



here you go. One of the JP Players on the JP Skype Group found a jab reset (albeit, not a jab) combo out of uair->footstool->nair. I don't know how you would follow up, but it's worth noting

I've been doing uair and nair combos, but they're not always incredibly consistent. Adding this footstool might help guarantee them. Interesting.

 

[NekoJubei]

Ness can footstool->nair. that's a true combo and it's been that way since brawl.

also, let me go find you guys the vine

EDIT:



here you go. One of the JP Players on the JP Skype Group found a jab reset (albeit, not a jab) combo out of uair->footstool->nair. I don't know how you would follow up, but it's worth noting

I can also confirm that Up Air = Footstool = Jump Cancel PSI Vaccum Jab locks at low percents, and you can also follow it up

 

[Earthbound360]

So I did some testing based on that short video with footstools, and I've come to the conclusion that it's really not worth it.

Yes, uair low to the ground is indeed the best setup Ness has for a footstool. You can get it to work, but it's pretty strict with the timing, and I'm not even sure it's a true combo.

Now the hard part is getting the footstool without DJing first. This means you can't mash the jump out, but you've gotta time and place it perfectly. You need that DJ in order to get the follow up nair to land.

Even if you get the DJ nair to come out after the footstool, it's very inconsistent with when you'll hit them after they hit the ground, or just hit them with the nair out of the air. It's also very percent specific. Either way you do it, it's the same damage though, since you can't actually get anything decent off of the nair lock hit.

But here's the real breaker: the damage. Usually when you land an uair close to the ground, you can get either a grab into dthrow combo, or an utilt into nair combo. Both of these follow ups out damage the footstool to nair by a lot, and are much easier to pull off and damage flexible. There's no real reason to use the footstool as long as you have these guys.

There is something funny and gimmicky you CAN do with the uair footstool though. If you get it low enough to the ground (they have to be like in the upper teen percentages for this to work well), you can footstool into an immediate PKT2. The first hit will pierce them, and keep them still for the PKT2. I don't think this is a true combo (the can probably shield between the PKT hit and the PKT2), but it might catch people off guard sometimes lol.

tl;dr version
No need to uair, footstool as long as you have uair into grab/utilt.

 

[kennypu]

So I did some testing based on that short video with footstools, and I've come to the conclusion that it's really not worth it.

Yes, uair low to the ground is indeed the best setup Ness has for a footstool. You can get it to work, but it's pretty strict with the timing, and I'm not even sure it's a true combo.

Now the hard part is getting the footstool without DJing first. This means you can't mash the jump out, but you've gotta time and place it perfectly. You need that DJ in order to get the follow up nair to land.

Even if you get the DJ nair to come out after the footstool, it's very inconsistent with when you'll hit them after they hit the ground, or just hit them with the nair out of the air. It's also very percent specific. Either way you do it, it's the same damage though, since you can't actually get anything decent off of the nair lock hit.

But here's the real breaker: the damage. Usually when you land an uair close to the ground, you can get either a grab into dthrow combo, or an utilt into nair combo. Both of these follow ups out damage the footstool to nair by a lot, and are much easier to pull off and damage flexible. There's no real reason to use the footstool as long as you have these guys.

There is something funny and gimmicky you CAN do with the uair footstool though. If you get it low enough to the ground (they have to be like in the upper teen percentages for this to work well), you can footstool into an immediate PKT2. The first hit will pierce them, and keep them still for the PKT2. I don't think this is a true combo (the can probably shield between the PKT hit and the PKT2), but it might catch people off guard sometimes lol.

tl;dr version
No need to uair, footstool as long as you have uair into grab/utilt.

thanks for looking into it!!

 

[Uffe]

Ness can footstool->nair. that's a true combo and it's been that way since brawl.

also, let me go find you guys the vine

EDIT:



here you go. One of the JP Players on the JP Skype Group found a jab reset (albeit, not a jab) combo out of uair->footstool->nair. I don't know how you would follow up, but it's worth noting

This is interesting. I've tried to do a footstool > nair on different characters, but it doesn't work for me like it did in Brawl. I hate that they took this cool feature out. I remember @Waael telling me he did a footstool > nair to an opponent one day and I didn't believe him. I told him that he was probably imagining it, but then I see this and there is a footstool > nair in there, though it's started up with a uair.

 

[kennypu]

This is interesting. I've tried to do a footstool > nair on different characters, but it doesn't work for me like it did in Brawl. I hate that they took this cool feature out. I remember @Waael telling me he did a footstool > nair to an opponent one day and I didn't believe him. I told him that he was probably imagining it, but then I see this and there is a footstool > nair in there, though it's started up with a uair.

after testing, i was wrong. looks like footstool > nair only works on some characters (unless I didn't buffer the nair). For example, it didn't work all the time on sheik, but it did sometimes.

 

[NekoJubei]

I know i linked this in Ness combo thread but i guess is worth showing it here too
Here's my footstool combo
(After PSI Vaccum, you can do whatever you want)
https://youtu.be/gLYdxrJH9pM

 

[Lochy]

I know i linked this in Ness combo thread but i guess is worth showing it here too
Here's my footstool combo
(After PSI Vaccum, you can do whatever you want)
https://youtu.be/gLYdxrJH9pM

This is interesting. Nice!

 

[Uffe]

after testing, i was wrong. looks like footstool > nair only works on some characters (unless I didn't buffer the nair). For example, it didn't work all the time on sheik, but it did sometimes.

I thought for sure in Brawl, footstool > nair didn't work on Mario unless he was facing a certain direction. You can footstool > nair without any setting up, but it would require your opponent to just stand there and let you jump on them three times before actually being able to use it after a foostool, so it's not practical doing it that way.

I know i linked this in Ness combo thread but i guess is worth showing it here too
Here's my footstool combo
(After PSI Vaccum, you can do whatever you want)
https://youtu.be/gLYdxrJH9pM

Too bad PSIM doesn't act similarly. That set up was really nice. I liked seeing Mario trapped in after the use of PKF.

 

[Earthbound360]

Just for future reference, you can get more moves if you DJ out of the footstool as opposed to just the footstool alone since Ness' DJ makes him linger horizontally.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

I think Ness will have more success with PK Fire -> Footstool offstage, than true footstool combos. (Footstooling while caught in an edge-guarding-fire-column works on characters that can still jump out of it, like Yoshi.) Maybe we'll find more, but I don't expect too many uses for Ness' footstool.

 

[ilysm]

Bump! Actually, I've been wondering about this (away from my Wii U atm so I can't trst); does the first hit of Ness's fair jab-lock? It seems to act like a jab. If so, it could be really powerful for reasons I've been pondering. Lucas players have found setups involving falling uair -> footstool -> magnet to cancel the upward momentum -> sourspot fair to start a jab lock. Since Ness's uair acts a lot like Lucas's but is safer and has a bigger hitbox, we might be able to do something similar. Think, at 0-10%: uair -> footstool -> magnet -> first hit of fast-fall fair -> jab x2 -> falling uair again -> repeat -> fsmash? Might be worth checking out.

@BlueberrySyrup and @ NekoJubei you seem like you'd be the most qualified people to comment on this. (Also, there's another PK Blueberry on the boards? My bad, dude. I tagged you on accident.)

 

[Earthbound360]

Bump! Actually, I've been wondering about this (away from my Wii U atm so I can't trst); does the first hit of Ness's fair jab-lock? It seems to act like a jab. If so, it could be really powerful for reasons I've been pondering. Lucas players have found setups involving falling uair -> footstool -> magnet to cancel the upward momentum -> sourspot fair to start a jab lock. Since Ness's uair acts a lot like Lucas's but is safer and has a bigger hitbox, we might be able to do something similar. Think, at 0-10%: uair -> footstool -> magnet -> first hit of fast-fall fair -> jab x2 -> falling uair again -> repeat -> fsmash? Might be worth checking out.

@BlueberrySyrup and @ NekoJubei you seem like you'd be the most qualified people to comment on this. (Also, there's another PK Blueberry on the boards? My bad, dude. I tagged you on accident.)

Ness' magnet doesn't cancel his jump, and fair jab locks in Brawl, but since they changed how the knockback works in Smash 4, it doesn't anymore

 

[ilysm]

Drat. I was so hopeful there for a sec. ;_;