Does anyone else find Smash Bros to be imbalanced/broken?

[FGC-Oni]

My biggest problem with this game is how imbalanced the roster is. I still enjoy it but take a character like Wario or Rosalina. They are so above everyone else while others like Wii Fit trainer or Ike require extreme precision and calculated dodging, rolling and spacing to compete against them. Wario can just relentlessly spam his motorcycle with very little room for punishment. You can make the same argument for Falcon and Zero Suit Samus. They're so fast and hit extremely hard that someone like Wii Fit Trainer, who is of average speed will have huge problems defending herself and really not stand a chance.

I feel like 5-7 characters on the roster are extremely good while everyone else is just average to poor. I don't see this kind of imbalance in other fighting games like I do with Smash Bros.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

This game has the most balanced roster to date for Smash Bros., though. Fighting games are inherently not very balanced, usually.

Be thankful it isn't Brawl. Brawl simultaneously has a character who has the most advantageous matchups (basically all of them) for a Smash Bros. character and a character who has the most DISADVANTAGEOUS (all but like counting on one hand, and all of those are considered even, with not a single favorable) matchup. (Meta Knight and Ganondorf if you weren't sure)

 

[Xzsmmc]

Wario can just relentlessly spam his motorcycle with very little room for punishment

Except no. Take it from me, it is far too easy in this game for Wario to be knocked off his bike.

There has never been a balanced Smash Bros. game. Sure, this one is probably the best balanced, but that's not saying much.

 

[Xermo]

I feel like 5-7 characters on the roster are extremely good while everyone else is just average to poor. I don't see this kind of imbalance in other fighting games like I do with Smash Bros.

You must not play a lot of fighting games, or brawl, then

 

[FGC-Oni]

You must not play a lot of fighting games, or brawl, then

I do actually, even with low tier characters in traditional 2D fighters I can hold my own against top tier characters. Not the case in Smash.

 

[stancosmos]

My biggest problem with this game is how imbalanced the roster is. I still enjoy it but take a character like Wario or Rosalina. They are so above everyone else while others like Wii Fit trainer or Ike require extreme precision and calculated dodging, rolling and spacing to compete against them. Wario can just relentlessly spam his motorcycle with very little room for punishment. You can make the same argument for Falcon and Zero Suit Samus. They're so fast and hit extremely hard that someone like Wii Fit Trainer, who is of average speed will have huge problems defending herself and really not stand a chance.

I feel like 5-7 characters on the roster are extremely good while everyone else is just average to poor. I don't see this kind of imbalance in other fighting games like I do with Smash Bros.

Just you. Wario's bike is in no way broken, it's actually a terrible and extremely predictable attack. Rosalina is very good, it's odd that you didn't put diddy and sheik up there are other strong characters. This post sounds like you lost a few matches in for glory and now think characters are broken because you couldn't manage to beat spammers.

 

[Frostav]

You must not play a lot of fighting games, or brawl, then

You must not, because very few legit FG's suffer the balance problems that Smash constantly does. At worst, one or two characters are not viable or require immense effort to win.

Every time a Smash player says "But other FG's are imbalanced too!" I can tell that they don't play any others.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Balance here is better than 64 (lol, Pikachu), Melee (you can see only a third of the roster is competitively viable... that's 8 characters), and Brawl (lol MK)
This is as good as it gets.
And unfortunately that's just how Smash is. They are not meant to be all equal, but to have different attributes leading to different playstyles.
Falcon and ZSS are heavy rushing characters, who rely on momentum and speed to overwhelm opponents.
Contrast with Marth, a ranged attacker who favours optimal spacing with tippers, Samus (projectile zoner), and Bowser (heavy hitting character), not to mention the infamous Little Mac.
In a tournament setting some characters do not lend themselves well to competitive play because tourneys don't play to the character's strengths (think of heavyweights like Ganondorf and Ike who hit really hard but can also be easily punished in one on ones. But put them in hectic multiplayer matches and they are most likely to perform the best due to their durability and power to take KOs where others can't. This is just one example)
So yeah. This doesn't surprise me.

 

[JimmyHedgehog]

Personally I find this game to be well balanced, especially compared to previous entries in the series.

 

[Kil3r]

OMG DIDDY FOR EXAMPLE!
lolol jk but for real I think there are atleast 5 characters who lend themselves well regarding competitive potential if you compare all movesets in the game. I also believe like you said there are around 5-10 characters who are pretty much average . The rest are really low in potential.
One way to look at it is:
1\5 ranked features of a moveset(a ranking can apply to any part including, specials, tilts, jabs, physics, grabs)
would be stuff like IMO Meta Knight's f-tilts(AFAICT they are too risky, don't do much damage\knock back, and low range. There is like ONE situation to use it in, and it's still risky. Might as well use d-tilt)
where there are problems like too rare\little situations to use the move in, the move is too risky, and\or the move doesn't really do any damage\knockback.

5\5 ranked features of a moveset
would be stuff like Diddy's u-air and d-tilt

3\5s are SUPER common while 1\5 moves are pretty rare. That's one reason why I think that we have a better balanced game now in comparison to the older ones but not by much.

I know many people are saying that the Meta is still developing but I can really feel that things are not going to change too much. Yes there will probably be surprises here and there (I think Greninja has more potential than people think) regarding potential but EVEN WITH CUSTOMS it's unlikely for there to be many.

I believe that Nintendo should balance this game and that competitive fans should push for balance. No nerfs required. They should focus on buffing all the other characters to being just as good but not better than the top character. Also there simply shouldn't exist any useless parts of a character's moveset(1\5 ranked moves) unless there is PLENTY of other options that make up for it. Yes there can exist near useless moves like Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch but the rest of the character should get one or two of his other options made better in return(and honestly they did do this a fair bit for Falcon).

(For the record, I think that Falcon's neutral b is 2\5. It aint useless because it can kill early!)

tl;dr IMO Smash 4 is imblanced and would be MUCH better if all characters were atleast almost as good as the best character(Diddy I guess). However, I think the game is still pretty good and certainly is not broken.

 

[Xermo]

Every time a Smash player says "But other FG's are imbalanced too!" I can tell that they don't play any others.

Oh no! I've been had by an actual FG player!

 

[Raijinken]

In Smash4's case, it's one of the better examples of decent balance in a fighting game.

 

[Luigi#1]

Well Brawl and Melee had a truly awful balance sense. Smash4 isn't as bad, atleast.

 

[Gamr_8]

Honestly I think this game is like any other fighter and by that I mean that, this game has characters that are used more than others because they are BETTER than others. For example you really dont see anyone use Samus, Falco or the Wii Fit Trainer, because they aren't as well equipped for battle as other characters are such as the infamous Diddy Kong (Hoo-Hah), Shiek, ZSS, or Luigi. I'll leave you with this, the game may be the most balanced of the series, but it is still going to have those characters that everyone uses like C.Falcon or ZSS. But I also believe that this game has the most diversity of in terms of characters being played in tournaments unlike Melee or Brawl

 

[Nammy12]

All characters can be viable with customs.
Smash 4 is balanced enough that you can use any character and not run into a 7-3 matchup very often.

 

[DavemanCozy]

While I don't believe this game is well balanced to, say, see a Ganondorf win a national, I do think this game is the best balanced Smash game to date.

 

[Zylach]

I used to hear this kind of thing all the time when playing various mmo's a while ago. I don't play them nearly to the same caliber anymore but the comparison still feels relevant. In pvp arenas, one could always hear people complaining that their particular class was terrible in that pvp environment. Generally, looking at statistics, these people were somewhat justified (Usually, if the player was dedicated and intelligent enough with that class, they could do really well in these environments). What a lot of these people complained about, though, was that they couldn't handle a certain other class in 1v1's. When the devs of the mmo were asked about this problem, they responded by saying that 1v1's would never be balanced and that the pvp was made and balanced specifically for group play, 3v3/5v5/etc.

I feel like this is a similar circumstance where people are complaining that there are many characters that don't perform well in 1v1's while a select few do. While I agree that this is the most balanced smash game to date, it's still not perfect (No video game is). However, as was stated earlier, there are no 7:3 MU's save for maybe a few against top tier Diddy as of right now. That will almost certainly change for the better. That being said, what many people claim to be bottom tier characters who don't perform well in 1v1's were designed and balanced to be used in 2v2/ffa/8 player smash/etc. Characters like Samus and Wii Fit Trainer can do a lot better in teams where they can stay back behind their teammate and snipe opponents with their specials. Heavy hitters like Bowser and Ganon are in a similar spot where they do better in teams and really shine in ffa's which aren't competitive but still where the devs intended to balance them.

tl;dr This game is not designed to be balanced in 1v1's even though it is balanced much more effectively than earlier incarnations of smash. Don't ever expect that to change.

 

[Gretalian]

yes, i agree.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

My biggest problem with this game is how imbalanced the roster is. I still enjoy it but take a character like Wario or Rosalina. They are so above everyone else while others like Wii Fit trainer or Ike require extreme precision and calculated dodging, rolling and spacing to compete against them. Wario can just relentlessly spam his motorcycle with very little room for punishment. You can make the same argument for Falcon and Zero Suit Samus. They're so fast and hit extremely hard that someone like Wii Fit Trainer, who is of average speed will have huge problems defending herself and really not stand a chance.

I feel like 5-7 characters on the roster are extremely good while everyone else is just average to poor. I don't see this kind of imbalance in other fighting games like I do with Smash Bros.

Every fighting game will have it's low and high tier characters
Most fighting games will have characters than can spam

 

[blue_flavored]

Other than Rosalina, because that Luma is too good, I think the only problems are the unnecessary cool-downs.

 

[Roko Jono]

My biggest problem with this game is how imbalanced the roster is. I still enjoy it but take a character like Wario or Rosalina. They are so above everyone else while others like Wii Fit trainer or Ike require extreme precision and calculated dodging, rolling and spacing to compete against them. Wario can just relentlessly spam his motorcycle with very little room for punishment. You can make the same argument for Falcon and Zero Suit Samus. They're so fast and hit extremely hard that someone like Wii Fit Trainer, who is of average speed will have huge problems defending herself and really not stand a chance.

I feel like 5-7 characters on the roster are extremely good while everyone else is just average to poor. I don't see this kind of imbalance in other fighting games like I do with Smash Bros.

Bruh its just you.

But in all seriousness. This game is maybe 35% character and 65% smarts. You can get away with a lot of 'bad' characters if you play smarter than your opponent. I'm surprised you might say something like this seeing as you play other fighting games.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

I remember competitive MK9, where if you weren't playing Kung Lao, Reptile or Shan Tsung, you were f**ked!

 

[Beach]

I remember competitive MK9, where if you weren't playing Kung Lao, Reptile or Shan Tsung, you were f**ked!

Actually everyone except like 3 were usable, While Kabal dominated the Meta with his insane pressure. Mileena was a popular choice and she was low B-tier.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Well OP, I'd love to see your interpretation of a balanced game. Nothing is perfect, but that's what makes it fun.

 

[BaeBraham]

The game is ridiculously balanced IMO. I think a lot of great things were mentioned in the previous responses (I.e. characters that shine in FFA or team settings over 1v1 and the mention of customs), and I think we must really need to keep in mind that this game is still super new and that new techs for different characters (and techs that affect the mechanics for all characters) are being discovered all the time that completely change previous MU predictions in drastic ways (I.e. Bowsercide will kill both people at the same time on maps that would allow a character to use a wall to wall jump and recover after spamming the jump button on the way down rather than killing bowser first on maps without a wall- meaning that if a bowser main is at a tournament and bowsercides successfully for both peoples last stock after getting a stage they wanted based on this knowledge, they absolutely die at the same time and immediately go into sudden death, warranting them another round unless the tournament specifically has a rule for this one situation, which is unlikely).

Also just further thought on customs- it is very possible that with enough MU knowledge and knowledge of your characters custom options for different MU's that this game may be even more balanced than we could even imagine. That of course is not guaranteed, but this game is so new no MU or tier list is guaranteed to stay the same.

Smash has always been a game that requires more work put into learning a character and their specific techs than most people want to put into it, so those people usually have a hard time finding the balance that truly exists in a game (Sheik was considered to be a pretty bad character in Brawl, but a player by the name of Judo in Kentucky, who also was credited to be one of the most knowledgeable brawl players in the nation, was able to smack Logics Olimar- which was considered the 2nd best character in brawl and was in the hands of a very well known brawl player, at a regional in Ohio because he was able to play sheik in ways no one imagined possible. It should be mentioned that he lost the match after landing the match winning kill because he got so excited after landing a combo that he paused the game, but regardless it was an incredible display of Sheiks capabilities that were previously unknown to anyone else there). Then we start to see shifts in projected tier lists because new mechanics were discovered by someone who put in the work needed to do well with their characters and those mechanics were shown off at a major tournament (look at how much hype Pacman received after Abadango put on a show at Apex- like seriously check out some of those matches, it was fantastic).

Really all of that was just to say Smash 4 is so much more balanced than so many people are willing to give it credit for. And I think we should all expect to notice that as time goes on homies.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Of course it's imbalanced. Frankly, what would you expect? In a game with 52 characters, a few of them are bound to be better than the rest. It's not that everyone that's not Diddy, Sheik, Zero Suit, and Yoshi is bad. I have to question just what the actual **** the balance team was thinking when designing some of these characters, though. As a wise streamer/YouTuber once said, "How do you make a character THIS much better than everyone else?".

 

[sogeki]

This is probably the most balanced smash game to date. Just be thankful that almost everyone has a counter. (And I don't mean the down special.)

 

[MapleWooD]

Name a multiplayer game that is balanced

 

[Deleted member]

It's fair as far as fighting games tend to get, I wouldn't call it amazing balance, however. I feel like Melee has much better balance over all, but least this game is better balanced than Brawl is. Customs help alleviate some of the issues, it's just a shame there isn't a way to use customs online outside of friends because it'd be fun using customs on For Fun and For Glory.

Diddy could use some tweaking though.

 

[diglett]

Outside of like 5 characters, I would say it's pretty balanced. What bothers me is there is absolutely no way Sakurai didn't know Diddy or Shiek were stronger than the rest of the cast and there doesn't seem like there's a need for it. In a game like Street Fighter, usually when a character is too strong it's either by mistake and eventually gets patched out or because they can't nerf the problem without screwing up match ups with the rest of the cast.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I don't really like hoo hahs. Game is broke, ban Diddy, or there will be a community split

 

[PCHU]

Outside of like 5 characters, I would say it's pretty balanced. What bothers me is there is absolutely no way Sakurai didn't know Diddy or Shiek were stronger than the rest of the cast and there doesn't seem like there's a need for it. In a game like Street Fighter, usually when a character is too strong it's either by mistake and eventually gets patched out or because they can't nerf the problem without screwing up match ups with the rest of the cast.

If they'd be more forgiving with autocancels/attack speed in general, many characters wouldn't have issues.
There's still the problem of some characters having ridiculous mobility in comparison to others, but really, I don't see why Mario should be able to throw out three smash attacks/aerials before I can finish my one; he really is a great model for what works well in this engine, but they just choose to hold a lot of characters back and I don't get it.
Some characters wind up slower than their Brawl counterparts because at least their playstyle was smoother back then.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

I used to hear this kind of thing all the time when playing various mmo's a while ago. I don't play them nearly to the same caliber anymore but the comparison still feels relevant. In pvp arenas, one could always hear people complaining that their particular class was terrible in that pvp environment. Generally, looking at statistics, these people were somewhat justified (Usually, if the player was dedicated and intelligent enough with that class, they could do really well in these environments). What a lot of these people complained about, though, was that they couldn't handle a certain other class in 1v1's. When the devs of the mmo were asked about this problem, they responded by saying that 1v1's would never be balanced and that the pvp was made and balanced specifically for group play, 3v3/5v5/etc.

I feel like this is a similar circumstance where people are complaining that there are many characters that don't perform well in 1v1's while a select few do. While I agree that this is the most balanced smash game to date, it's still not perfect (No video game is). However, as was stated earlier, there are no 7:3 MU's save for maybe a few against top tier Diddy as of right now. That will almost certainly change for the better. That being said, what many people claim to be bottom tier characters who don't perform well in 1v1's were designed and balanced to be used in 2v2/ffa/8 player smash/etc. Characters like Samus and Wii Fit Trainer can do a lot better in teams where they can stay back behind their teammate and snipe opponents with their specials. Heavy hitters like Bowser and Ganon are in a similar spot where they do better in teams and really shine in ffa's which aren't competitive but still where the devs intended to balance them.

tl;dr This game is not designed to be balanced in 1v1's even though it is balanced much more effectively than earlier incarnations of smash. Don't ever expect that to change.

People forget this. I believe Sakurai spends a lot of time talking about making this game fun to play with friends and family. If we did a tier list of who was the best in a 4 player ffa or 3 v 3 team match up, the tier list would look different.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I do actually, even with low tier characters in traditional 2D fighters I can hold my own against top tier characters. Not the case in Smash.

Probably because
1. You are too used to traditional 2D fighters
or
2. You keep getting bodied online.

That's what I'm getting from the OP and this comment here.

Wario's bike is spam-able?
Ok then lol

Also, since you can't find any balance in other fighters to compare to Smash 4...
UMVC3 plz.

 

[Greda]

IMO the game is completely balanced as far as everything goes. People forget that the game is designed with many other modes than "1v1 No Items" in mind. One character might be better than another in fun modes like Smash Run but might be worse in 2v2.

There are so many combinations that the devs have to think of, balancing this game must have been insanely hard. I think the majority of you are just thinking 1v1. Test characters in Home Run Contest, Smash Run, Smash Tour, 4v4, Coin Battles, 3v3, 2v2, FFA's, Trophy Rush, Multi-Man Smash, Target Blast, Classic, All-Star, Events, Special Orders, with or without items, and you'll find the specific "tier lists" of these areas are going to be different, and low tier characters on one area will be high on another.

Anyways, I think only Diddy, Yoshi, ZSS, Sheik, and Rosalina should be hit, if they should be at all, because they are good in most areas.

Here's hoping for a balance patch with Mewtwo, I suppose.

 

[ApathySSB]

This is the only smash game I've seen where counterpicking and having pocket characters is actually a good idea

 

[Aguki90]

There like 5 characters that are really stronger than the other 45 vharacters.

In reality, people don't care a crap the other guys, heck I ALMOST WIN in a tourment with Olimar bacause nobody how olimar play Smash 4, some people even have trouble or even rage quit with Olimar in Smash 4. That was my Olimar, so is a experience that I got. Even people hate olimar, not because there play, because people look him very ugly and not very interesting character.
People just rage because they don't know Olimar was good in the game.
Heck, I was beaten by a Peach because that guy did something soo meta with her to break my shield with just down air. Because I don't peach well, I don,t khow how she fight.
That the problem with the rooster. people think about the character they most show. It sad that people are ignoring MOST of the Old veterans from brawl that were bad to good.

With need more people with variety. The more we learn, the more we adapt, just like all players did with melee.

Smash Bros. is very HARD to compare to other figthing because is the most unique and diverse from other, So feeling the game is balanced is Way harder to describe.

You need to see each smash game has is own META.

But to me, Smash 4 is most balanced Smash yet, Compared to Melee and Brawl. I got problem with Sheik no air lagging, Diddy many kills move,speed and hoo-aah and Rosalina incredible Luma with little Mac strenght everywhere is put.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Well, some of the heavies (,, andwith customs) are actually able to hold their own in this game, so that's certainly a step up from Melee and Brawl (lol). Granted, pretty much all of the MLG 2fast4u characters are still better, but it's still progress. I can't really think of many characters in this game that can really be considered competitively unviable, if any at all. Even the characters who got nerfed to hell (think Meta Knight and Falco) still have a place in the competitive scene.
My only gripe with the character balance in this game is thatis still good after four games. He only ever got overall nerfed once in Melee, and he was still high-tier in that game anyway. Where in heck does this rodent get off?

 

[Ferblantier]

The thing about Smash Bros. is that it's hard to have a cast of 50 or so, all with distinct abilities, to have a level playing field.

 

[Aphistemi]

You must not, because very few legit FG's suffer the balance problems that Smash constantly does. At worst, one or two characters are not viable or require immense effort to win.

Every time a Smash player says "But other FG's are imbalanced too!" I can tell that they don't play any others.

at least in smash you can move. games like Injustice have stupid matchips/tiers