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Does anybody else struggle against Fox?

HeavyMetalSonic

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Bloodriot779
I don't have a problem against any of the cast, except for Fox. It just feels like he's Sonic but better. He has a projectile, his forward smash reaches further forward, His up smash has range and comes out pretty fast, he's only a little bit slower, I feel like his up air kills better than Sonic's, he can easily combo out of throws (Is it down or up throw into his forward air? That triple kick?). I don't know, I just seem to struggle against him. Any advice? I could try and record a video of me fighting a decent Fox player online and upload it to Youtube if that helps.
 

Scourge The Hedgehog

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Fox is a really hard match up in my personal opinion. In worst case scenarios he can just sit back and put on percent. In best case he chases you around the stage trying to get tilt combos, Fairs, and Nairs. Primarily Dash Attack and Nairs. Just try to out space Fox. Pivot Forward Tilts work wonders at keeping most of the cast out. I'm still working on the match up myself so I'll let you know how it goes.

Also it is down throw into Fair I believe that combos well.
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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I just can't seem to wrap my head around the matchup, it feels like it should be pretty even, but every good fox player I come across I get outplayed just barely... You pretty much nailed it on the head though. I just try to chip away at him with down and forward tilts up close, and whenever I'm not I try to keep pressure on with SD and SC combos, sometimes faking out SC with shield. I find doing a fast HA while he's using lasers works sometimes too.

I might take him into practice and learn how to play Fox, it might teach me what to expect out of him. Since I've posted this thread I've not found a Fox player online so I can't record a video. >.<

Yeah that's the one, I just couldn't remember as I haven't played Fox in a while.
 

Scourge The Hedgehog

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Yeah try playing the character to understand his range. Also I think we might want to put this in the Match Up thread so more people view it. That way others can chime in.

Match Up thread
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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Yeah, I searched for a Sonic vs Fox Matchup and couldn't find anything, and COMPLETELY overlooked the match up thread until after I made this one... My head isn't on straight today I swear. I'll post in there anyway and see what happens, as nobody seems to have mentioned Fox in there.
 
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Espy Rose

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Fox is fine. It's just a really toxic match because the winner is typically whoever takes the first stock. Sonic can't handle Fox's defensive game, but Fox can't really deal with Sonic's either. :applejack:
 

Camalange

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Yeah, I searched for a Sonic vs Fox Matchup and couldn't find anything, and COMPLETELY overlooked the match up thread until after I made this one... My head isn't on straight today I swear.
Normally I enjoy hounding people for this, but I actually let this thread go because our Match-Up thread isn't organized enough to warrant a sticky, and no one can really agree on a proper method for discussion.

It would be ideal to keep it all in one thread, but I can't really get mad over individual character threads when no one is fronting a proper Match-Up debate... So lately I've just been letting these go to see if discussion is stirred. Sometimes it's good to break things up instead of constantly moving posts to other threads.

:093:
 

kataridragon

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I had to think about this matchup for a minute to really grasp it's concepts.

I feel like the winning strategy is to get the Fox player to chase you and not vice versa. Similar to espys "make sure to get a life lead". I think it's just straight up best to pace and lead.

Some key factors:
Sonics movement is a little better than Foxs. (Ground and Air)
Sonic in general has less commitment (lag) on certain moves.

Leading a fox around and punishing the lag as well as decent air game will get you farther. Not to say that foxes aerials aren't good it's just his fall speed is quick so it's possible to catch him on a landing.

As for pew pew, dash attack/grab mixup. I usually run through a few shots and take the couple hits for a psychological "get that BS outta here".
 

Espy Rose

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Fox has less lag on his aerials, about the same on tilts and smashes. :applejack:
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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Normally I enjoy hounding people for this, but I actually let this thread go because our Match-Up thread isn't organized enough to warrant a sticky, and no one can really agree on a proper method for discussion.

It would be ideal to keep it all in one thread, but I can't really get mad over individual character threads when no one is fronting a proper Match-Up debate... So lately I've just been letting these go to see if discussion is stirred. Sometimes it's good to break things up instead of constantly moving posts to other threads.

:093:

I like you... Just sayin'. Thanks for being understanding and reasonable. c:

Practicing with Fox a bit does seem to help, but it's still very much an even game. As mentioned before, keeping your distance (But not full stage, just out of reach), and chipping away with tilts seems to work. I fight him as I'd fight Diddy (Except Fox doesn't have that BS flip move Diddy does...). It's hard to break the norm and not be aggressive, but you gotta do what you gotta do I guess. ._.
 

IWinToLose

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As long as fox shoots 2-3 or more lasers on the ground if both of you are neutral, you can close the entire distance of FD and punish him with a dash attack (fastest option at that range and distance). Good foxes know this and will only use 1 laser to bait an approach/dash attack and for some free damage.

I personally have not had any trouble against any foxes online in For Glory as most of them aren't very good.

Always threaten his dash attacks and dash grabs with dashing or jumping yourself (either backwards or forwards, usually backwards against most players on For Glory) and SC. A single whiffed Dash Attack or Grab can lead to a lot of damage on Fox.

As for short hop Fairs from fox, this is definitely a bit more tricky for Sonic to deal with but you will need to beat his follow up options after he lands or pull of some good dash in perfect shields which allows you to sometimes punish with a grab/jabs. However, if you mistime the dash/shield, he will land a soft spot Fair which leads to a kill or combo from Fox. Often times you can use a Spin Dash (which is faster on the ground than Spin Charge) to threaten many of his follow up options when he lands. It is very difficult to punish Fox for his Fairs though.

Make sure to try your best to hit confirm SC/SD. If you just attack out of SC/SD every time, Fox can punish you with aerials out of his shield. However, if you condition him to attempt to punish you with an aerial, mixups like Homing attack and Spring out of SC/SD can wrack up some free damage onto Fox.
 
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HeavyMetalSonic

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D'awh shucks.

I like when people aren't idiots.

:093:
You're quite welcome, likewise to you. c:

And that sounds like some solid imformation on the Matchup IWinToLose, I do think it is a case of chip and run to be honest. It's such an even matchup... I think if Fox had Falco's Lasers (IE: Has knockback), we'd have a MUCH harder time.
 

jordanm43444

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Jumping in a bit late to say, after fighting a Fox in tourney I can definetely say the MU is around even, my set went from me 2 stocking him to then him 2 stocking me game 2 then it went down to last hit last stock for game 3. Its a pretty goddamn difficult MU from what I remember though, we need to be really smart with approaches since Foxs USmash is so goddamn fast and strong.
 

The_Paradiddler

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Haven't had a ton of trouble with fox, it's not too hard to get in close and control. Falco though, ugh. His lasers disrupt a lot. Granted I haven't faced very high level of either yet.
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7urIfVDLTmY&t=14m15s

Sorry it's just one match, but, perhaps a match of two other people playing the matchup can help you?
You seem like a very reserved Sonic player compared to what you normally see. Or was that intentional in that match?

Was there anything in particular you were looking out for when playing that Fox? Like particular moves you could punish? Or were you reluctant to use any moves that you think Fox could punish? You seemed to be in pretty good control.
 

Kinzer

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You seem like a very reserved Sonic player compared to what you normally see. Or was that intentional in that match?

Was there anything in particular you were looking out for when playing that Fox? Like particular moves you could punish? Or were you reluctant to use any moves that you think Fox could punish? You seemed to be in pretty good control.
No, you're right: that's how I play in general.

The key here is to not let him Nair > USmash. I don't know if it can be avoided; but, I'm not aware if such an option exists so I rather just avoid the hit altogether.

Of course it's never a bad idea to just run up to them and shield.

... After which, you proceed to get grabbed... which can sometimes lead into Uair kills... Perhaps something to avoid, now that I think about it...

... Okay, I got it! It's best to approach with shield if he's facing away from you. Not unusual if they use Fox Illusion to run to the other side and they then try to stuff your approach with an utilt. If they're facing you; then, it's just up to you to bait out options, whatever they are. Spotdodges, grabs, jabs, USmashs, SHs, you name 'em.

Shield really will be your best bet in this matchup. It isn't like his aerials will be unpunishable. Best thing he can do is retreating bair... Which you may or may not be able to DA OoS if you're super fast about it. I dunno.

Be patient, too. I know it'll be tempting to go in if he's on the other side of the stage guns blazing (pun totally intended); but, smarter players will obviously not keep shooting past that point. They'll stop and see what you do. Don't be afraid to stop short yourself and see what his reactions are. Or if you prefer a little bit more action than simply standing in place, you can use auto-cancel aerials and even Nair if you're hoping to trade/catch him for a set-up from a weak-hit Nair. Just respect that Fox is kinda fast too and it isn't unusual to see one run in for a DA or USmash or some other crazy option if you get a little too predictable by sticking to one regime.

Let's see, you think there's anything else I can tell you that could help...? Hmm~...

I'm not sure. I'm speaking theoritically here; but, perhaps stages that have platforms are good? Think about it: he won't be able to just land on you with his own Dair/Nair/Etc. if he's going to be interrupted. And if you're sharking under the platforms, he'll have to reconsider. Of course, the same applies to you, so at that point, it might just be a matter of preference.

... Can't go wrong with Lylat, anyway. The first rule of Fur-******ry still applies somewhat; so, being there to disrupt their recovery path is lovely.
 

Smog Frog

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i find this matchup hard to wrap my head around, because on one hand you're one of the few characters that outpaces fox, but on the other hand, he's one of the few characters that can keep up with you
 

cerealkiller

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I rarely find Foxes online. The only ones that appeared were too easy but most probably that was because the players were not strong.
 
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