Doctor Mario 1.11 Changelog

[NeoRed]

Make sure to point out any differences in this thread!

 

[MonkeyArms]

I heard down smash was buffed in the Luigi boards.

 

[Mooro...]

Still haven't found anything on Reddit or the current Smashboards patch thread, so I'll have to do some lab-work to see for myself. Stay tuned.

 

[Newbarktown]

I didn't notice anything downsmash wise. Sour does 11 and sweet does 13 (I think that's the same) and kb doesn't seem changed.

Uair angle seems a bit different, noticeable around mid%, but it's most likely placebo.

 

[waterfall6464]

So shieldstun was universally increased, how well does that that bode for Doc? Aerials on shield are safer offensive tools and I'm worried that characters who can outcamp Doc does even better against him now.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

So shieldstun was universally increased, how well does that that bode for Doc? Aerials on shield are safer offensive tools and I'm worried that characters who can outcamp Doc does even better against him now.

why worry when we have the basic nessecities of everything to compete?

 

[waterfall6464]

I haven't seen anyone mentioning this, but it feels to me like tornado has less hitlag and less frames between the hits, making it harder to interrupt Doc out of this move than before. Also F-Smash feels like it has more hitlag

 

[CasteHappy//]

Shield stun universally increased and some Custom Down B 3 changes, that's what I've seen so far.

I haven't seen anyone mentioning this, but it feels to me like tornado has less hitlag and less frames between the hits, making it harder to interrupt Doc out of this move than before. Also F-Smash feels like it has more hitlag

I've read that they made some kind of hitbox change in Samus' Up B, maybe they changed that kind of multi hit moves?
Also, about the hitlag, moves with electric effects like Pikachu's FSmash and ZSS' DSmash have increased hitlag, maybe Doc's FSmash is the same? That'd be awesome since it would make the move super safe on shield.
I'll test it later.

So shieldstun was universally increased, how well does that that bode for Doc? Aerials on shield are safer offensive tools and I'm worried that characters who can outcamp Doc does even better against him now.

It's kinda difficult to tell right now, but this will change a lot of Doc's matchups, Doc struggled a lot punishing moves on shield because of his speed, and now it will be even worse. Some matchups like Bowser or Ike will be much harder than before, but this change affects everyone and Doc's framedata is great. I don't know about projectiles but if they also have increased hitlag, Pills will be awesome.

Anyway I think this is not what Doc wanted, lets just wait and see what happens.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I imagine our pressure game will be better, but our ability to deal with zoning will be worse.

EDIT: It's time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-x6qNvnkcM

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I faced an okay Mario the other day and had so much trouble. He was a big time zoner with fireballs. Shielding them seemed to allow him to easily land on me with dAir and then (since I was still in shield), he'd simply land, grab, down throw, up tilt, rinse, repeat. Yikes! I'll have to practice some more with this new patch, but mulihit moves seem OP now. Other than avoiding them, what can be done? Shielding seemingly gives the opponent a free grab/hit, taking the hits is horrible and spot dodging still gets you hit.

I also faced a Kirby that, as is the norm, floated around and spammed dAir. I used to shield it and then upB OOS. Now? He simply combo'd into any number of other moves.

At this time I'm hoping I'm just missing something and/or just played these match-ups incorrectly. Either way, it took a somewhat tough match-up (at least for me) and made it even more difficult.

Anyone else have any similar experiences or care to provide any advice (tested advice, of course)?

 

[CasteHappy//]

I faced an okay Mario the other day and had so much trouble. He was a big time zoner with fireballs. Shielding them seemed to allow him to easily land on me with dAir and then (since I was still in shield), he'd simply land, grab, down throw, up tilt, rinse, repeat. Yikes! I'll have to practice some more with this new patch, but mulihit moves seem OP now. Other than avoiding them, what can be done? Shielding seemingly gives the opponent a free grab/hit, taking the hits is horrible and spot dodging still gets you hit.

I also faced a Kirby that, as is the norm, floated around and spammed dAir. I used to shield it and then upB OOS. Now? He simply combo'd into any number of other moves.

At this time I'm hoping I'm just missing something and/or just played these match-ups incorrectly. Either way, it took a somewhat tough match-up (at least for me) and made it even more difficult.

Anyone else have any similar experiences or care to provide any advice (tested advice, of course)?

It's time for everyone to start using Smash DI when shielding. In the Kirby case, you should just stay on shield and roll away, IT SUCKS I KNOW, I have to practice the shield SDI but maybe it's usefull against that kind of moves. If projectiles can do that, it's great news for Doc players.

And remember, we now have free pressurings tool aka Down B and Dair, and Up B is super I'm sure we'll break more shields now.

I imagine our pressure game will be better, but our ability to deal with zoning will be worse.

EDIT: It's time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-x6qNvnkcM

OH GOD THIS IS GREAT. Can't wait to try all this stuff offline, now I want to make a video.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

It's time for everyone to start using Smash DI when shielding. In the Kirby case, you should just stay on shield and roll away, IT SUCKS I KNOW, I have to practice the shield SDI but maybe it's usefull against that kind of moves. If projectiles can do that, it's great news for Doc players.

And remember, we now have free pressurings tool aka Down B and Dair, and Up B is super I'm sure we'll break more shields now.

Thanks, I'll have to try that out.

Regarding projectiles, I'm not sure if they have that affect or not. Mario is very quick, so perhaps it had more to do with his dAir rather than the fireballs. I literally only played 6 matches yesterday (4 with Mario and 2 with Kirby, and I used Charizard a couple times as well, not just Doc).

Right now, I think it's more about figuring out how to avoid getting caught in a bad situation and also about how to utilize this new mechanic to help me in battle. At first I was excited when I heard the news, but after the minimal testing, I wasn't quite as thrilled. Should be interesting to see how the community adapts to this change and how the meta changes.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think Doc is about the same if not better off. You can't forget we have a lot of multihits that let us crossup shields (Dair, Down-B) and our OoS option is STILL good enough to punish most aerials in the game ESPECIALLY on Powershield.

I think overall it's a net slight gain, but the game is shifting around Doc at this point so he might rise up a bit.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I think Doc is about the same if not better off. You can't forget we have a lot of multihits that let us crossup shields (Dair, Down-B) and our OoS option is STILL good enough to punish most aerials in the game ESPECIALLY on Powershield.

I think overall it's a net slight gain, but the game is shifting around Doc at this point so he might rise up a bit.

I hope so. Because of Doc's speed, I used to rely on my shield a lot to get in on campy and/or keep-away opponents. Now? I'm not sure what my best option would be. If I try to use my shield to close to a spammy Link, they should be able to punish.

Does anyone know if nAir on shield is okay to use now? I used to be in a bad habit of using that, then my opponent would shield and grab. I wonder if I could now possibly use it to poke their shield and then follow up. I guess the better option may now be dAir, which wasn't so great before. Hhm..... I'll have to do some testing tonight.

 

[Doc Mario]

When are they going to make an update that actually helps Doc? Either increase his running speed slightly or make his traction better so he can punish out of shield. It's like they buff all the characters who don't need it but don't do anything for the ones who do, hell DK got nerfed in this update for some reason and he's considered to be terrible by many people.

 

[A2ZOMG]

When are they going to make an update that actually helps Doc? Either increase his running speed slightly or make his traction better so he can punish out of shield. It's like they buff all the characters who don't need it but don't do anything for the ones who do, hell DK got nerfed in this update for some reason and he's considered to be terrible by many people.

The U-smash frame and knockback buff alone makes Doc a solid character. Most underrated buff by a landslide.

Forward facing U-smash has so many applications on Doc and has to be respected a lot in neutral.

 

[Doc Mario]

The U-smash frame and knockback buff alone makes Doc a solid character. Most underrated buff by a landslide.

Forward facing U-smash has so many applications on Doc and has to be respected a lot in neutral.

Well that one was pretty decent, I still don't understand why he can't be on the same level as Mario though, his up air has less hitstun than Mario's for some reason which is pretty stupid if you ask me, he still needs help despite the up smash and front air buffs.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well that one was pretty decent, I still don't understand why he can't be on the same level as Mario though, his up air has less hitstun than Mario's for some reason which is pretty stupid if you ask me, he still needs help despite the up smash and front air buffs.

his U-air could be a little better, but it could quickly become broken given it's stage carry potential. Around mid percents I often fish for U-airs in neutral so that I can combo my opponent with like 5 U-airs in a row that ends with an Up-B by the ledge. If U-air got any better/easier to combo with, it could quickly become insane given how powerful something like stage carry combos are.

But to be serious, the U-smash buff basically means Doc has something that resembles a real SH F-air in neutral, unlike Mario. That's a pretty massively useful thing, and the leanback lets you avoid certain things, including other SH aerials and even Jabs and tilts on the ground.

 

[Doc Mario]

his U-air could be a little better, but it could quickly become broken given it's stage carry potential. Around mid percents I often fish for U-airs in neutral so that I can combo my opponent with like 5 U-airs in a row that ends with an Up-B by the ledge. If U-air got any better/easier to combo with, it could quickly become insane given how powerful something like stage carry combos are.

But to be serious, the U-smash buff basically means Doc has something that resembles a real SH F-air in neutral, unlike Mario. That's a pretty massively useful thing, and the leanback lets you avoid certain things, including other SH aerials and even Jabs and tilts on the ground.

Up air isn't much of a reliable combo move for Doc, when you get your opponents at the percentage were they are actually taking a good amount of hitstun from the move it has too much knockback so it doesn't connect as good. Mario's up air has good histun at like 45% and so it doesn't send opponents to far out of your reach for another one. They should just add more hitstun to Doc's up air so it good be more like Mario's but at a horizontal angle. How do you feel about his speed? I like the air speed but running is terrible for Dr.Mario, I said this somewhere before but look at how fast Luigi can run and stronger than Doc. UNACCEPTABLE, oh and about the up smash, to be honest I prefer Doc's over both Mario's and Luigi's, it just seems like it has better set ups at early percents and sends foes of stage at later percents so you could possibly edge guard them.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Up air isn't much of a reliable combo move for Doc, when you get your opponents at the percentage were they are actually taking a good amount of hitstun from the move it has too much knockback so it doesn't connect as good. Mario's up air has good histun at like 45% and so it doesn't send opponents to far out of your reach for another one. They should just add more hitstun to Doc's up air so it good be more like Mario's but at a horizontal angle. How do you feel about his speed? I like the air speed but running is terrible for Dr.Mario, I said this somewhere before but look at how fast Luigi can run and stronger than Doc. UNACCEPTABLE, oh and about the up smash, to be honest I prefer Doc's over both Mario's and Luigi's, it just seems like it has better set ups at early percents and sends foes of stage at later percents so you could possibly edge guard them.

Doing a short hop up air at low percents can follow up into grounded moves (out of down throw). By the time they are at like 18 percent, Doc has access to down throw down air or back air. (Back air is probably better, but I usually use down air) By the time they are at about 35 percent, his up airs are basically legit combos.

Doc can have a tough time not getting counter attacked at low percents, but after about 20 damage he can rack up damage quickly and take his opponent offstage to set up for Doc's phenomenal edge guard game. An up air buff is welcome, but isn't really required.

 

[Doc Mario]

Doing a short hop up air at low percents can follow up into grounded moves (out of down throw). By the time they are at like 18 percent, Doc has access to down throw down air or back air. (Back air is probably better, but I usually use down air) By the time they are at about 35 percent, his up airs are basically legit combos.

Doc can have a tough time not getting counter attacked at low percents, but after about 20 damage he can rack up damage quickly and take his opponent offstage to set up for Doc's phenomenal edge guard game. An up air buff is welcome, but isn't really required.

Down throw to back air doesn't work on every character, it's mostly just light or middle weight characters. I didn't know about the down throw to down air though. I main Doc and I know he's not as good as Mario, buffing his running speed Slightly should help him get more punishes and adding more histun is a good way to put him on Mario's level too. Dr.Mario's supposed to be the stronger version right? Why can't his up air stun or have as much kill potential as Mario's? Also, Doc's down air is also garbage compared to Mario's. I want to say that Doc's up smas kills better than Mario's but I can never be too sure about that one even though I prefer Doc's up smash for some reason.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Down throw to back air doesn't work on every character

Actually, it does. The way you get it may be a bit different depending on the character though.

 

[Doc Mario]

Actually, it does. The way you get it may be a bit different depending on the character though.

You know what you're right about that, it just feels weird as hell against Bowser and Dedede for some reason

 

[MarioMeteor]

Down throw to back air doesn't work on every character, it's mostly just light or middle weight characters. I didn't know about the down throw to down air though. I main Doc and I know he's not as good as Mario, buffing his running speed Slightly should help him get more punishes and adding more histun is a good way to put him on Mario's level too. Dr.Mario's supposed to be the stronger version right? Why can't his up air stun or have as much kill potential as Mario's? Also, Doc's down air is also garbage compared to Mario's. I want to say that Doc's up smas kills better than Mario's but I can never be too sure about that one even though I prefer Doc's up smash for some reason.

Doc's down air is amazing, and his up smash does kill earlier than Mario's.

 

[CasteHappy//]

If you are talking about Dthrow > Back air being possible of course it is, but it's not guaranteed, it's escapable and only a true combo at mid to high percents on some characters.

Well that one was pretty decent, I still don't understand why he can't be on the same level as Mario though, his up air has less hitstun than Mario's for some reason which is pretty stupid if you ask me, he still needs help despite the up smash and front air buffs.

That's the buff Doc needs, even if slow, Doc has a great framedata and killpower. If they gave his up air a bit more of hitstun, his combos will be DEVASTATING and every grab will be like ~30% minimum guaranteed.

 

[Daxter]

The shield stun changes mean you'll have to change your means of approach, or even go offensive against some characters. One of my friends plays a good Doctor Mario game, and I play as a semi-aggressive Robin. Doc couldn't deal with the pressure of the Arcfires/Arcthunders etc locking him down in his shield, unless he played more offensively himself, we found.

 

[Doc Mario]

Doc's down air is amazing, and his up smash does kill earlier than Mario's.

Mario's tornado can be used to set up a grab if it' cancelled on the ground, Doc's down air has more start up lag and landing lag yet it doesn't have as near as much kill power as Mario's down air. (tornado) That's why I say it's garbage because it has no kill power and it's much slower than the tornado and only does 1% more damage most of the time.

 

[MonkeyArms]

Mario's tornado can be used to set up a grab if it' cancelled on the ground, Doc's down air has more start up lag and landing lag yet it doesn't have as near as much kill power as Mario's down air. (tornado) That's why I say it's garbage because it has no kill power and it's much slower than the tornado and only does 1% more damage most of the time.

Its a much better edge guarding option though. It sets up for follow ups and can even stage spike.

The shield stun changes mean you'll have to change your means of approach, or even go offensive against some characters. One of my friends plays a good Doctor Mario game, and I play as a semi-aggressive Robin. Doc couldn't deal with the pressure of the Arcfires/Arcthunders etc locking him down in his shield, unless he played more offensively himself, we found.

Try jumping, throwing pills over arc fire, and caping thunder.

 

[A Rogue Cop]

I faced an okay Mario the other day and had so much trouble. He was a big time zoner with fireballs. Shielding them seemed to allow him to easily land on me with dAir and then (since I was still in shield), he'd simply land, grab, down throw, up tilt, rinse, repeat. Yikes! I'll have to practice some more with this new patch, but mulihit moves seem OP now. Other than avoiding them, what can be done? Shielding seemingly gives the opponent a free grab/hit, taking the hits is horrible and spot dodging still gets you hit.

I also faced a Kirby that, as is the norm, floated around and spammed dAir. I used to shield it and then upB OOS. Now? He simply combo'd into any number of other moves.

At this time I'm hoping I'm just missing something and/or just played these match-ups incorrectly. Either way, it took a somewhat tough match-up (at least for me) and made it even more difficult.

Anyone else have any similar experiences or care to provide any advice (tested advice, of course)?

Had this same experience with a Mario the other day, he spammed fireballs extremely heavily (there was a pretty steady stream at least), and relied on the increased shield stun to get easy grabs, or barring that, hit me with his dair. My Dr. Mario was pretty much destroyed, and I just barely managed to scrape out a win with Dedede. It's difficult to deal with, for sure.

As for strategies for dealing with it, I'd imagine that perfect shielding will become much more important now, as pointed out by some people on the Dedede boards.

It's time for everyone to start using Smash DI when shielding. In the Kirby case, you should just stay on shield and roll away, IT SUCKS I KNOW, I have to practice the shield SDI but maybe it's usefull against that kind of moves. If projectiles can do that, it's great news for Doc players.

And remember, we now have free pressurings tool aka Down B and Dair, and Up B is super I'm sure we'll break more shields now.



OH GOD THIS IS GREAT. Can't wait to try all this stuff offline, now I want to make a video.

Shield breaks could be especially nice as Doc with the ability to tack on damage by spamming them with his cape. It does nearly 8 percent per hit, no? I'd say that's powerful enough to put people in kill range off of most shield breaks.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Mario's tornado can be used to set up a grab if it' cancelled on the ground, Doc's down air has more start up lag and landing lag yet it doesn't have as near as much kill power as Mario's down air. (tornado) That's why I say it's garbage because it has no kill power and it's much slower than the tornado and only does 1% more damage most of the time.

Getting a grab from Mario Tornado is difficult and unwieldy. Doc's down air can edgeguard, break combos, snuff approaches, and it's more useful as a damage racking tool. And people can't just fall out of Doc's down air like they can Mario's.

 

[A Rogue Cop]

-accidental post, sorry-

 

[MonkeyArms]

Getting a grab from Mario Tornado is difficult and unwieldy. Doc's down air can edgeguard, break combos, snuff approaches, and it's more useful as a damage racking tool. And people can't just fall out of Doc's down air like they can Mario's.

:S????

 

[Doc Mario]

Getting a grab from Mario Tornado is difficult and unwieldy. Doc's down air can edgeguard, break combos, snuff approaches, and it's more useful as a damage racking tool. And people can't just fall out of Doc's down air like they can Mario's.

No, just know, I can show you how to down air to grab, it's very easy and far less laggy than Doc's down air, it's just not as useful as an attack as Mario's down air. Also, I'm done comparing the two because I believe that it's off topic.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I just want him to have a better recover, I've been gimped so many times from semi spike hits or having to up B early to avoid an attack only to not reach the ledge. his recovery is worse than ganondorf's.

other than that I find everything else about him to be calming and rewarding

 

[MarioMeteor]

:S????

The landing hitbox. It's gotten me out of quite some ****.

No, just know, I can show you how to down air to grab, it's very easy and far less laggy than Doc's down air, it's just not as useful as an attack as Mario's down air. Also, I'm done comparing the two because I believe that it's off topic.

I never said it was as good as Mario's, but saying its garbage is straight up wrong.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

I just want him to have a better recover, I've been gimped so many times from semi spike hits or having to up B early to avoid an attack only to not reach the ledge. his recovery is worse than ganondorf's.

other than that I find everything else about him to be calming and rewarding

You're doing it wrong. I rarely ever get gimped as Doc. If I do, it's probably something that would have stopped even characters with the best recovery.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I just want him to have a better recover, I've been gimped so many times from semi spike hits or having to up B early to avoid an attack only to not reach the ledge. his recovery is worse than ganondorf's.

other than that I find everything else about him to be calming and rewarding

-_-

His recovery is not that bad. Use Tornado, air dodge, and mix it up.

No, just know, I can show you how to down air to grab, it's very easy and far less laggy than Doc's down air, it's just not as useful as an attack as Mario's down air. Also, I'm done comparing the two because I believe that it's off topic.

Down Air grab, even if it's possible, sounds pretty hard to set up.

Doc's Down Air isn't even bad. It catches rolls more easily, beats out other moves and intercepts recoveries better. I don't know why you're comparing the two when the only thing they have in common is that they involve the character spinning. Mario's is more offensive based, Doc's is defensive based.

Can someone close the thread? We are going off topic since we didn't get any material changes (useless custom down b buff woo hoo )

 

[MonkeyArms]

You know, now that I played Doc a bit more, I do agree his up air should have more hitstun.

 

[CasteHappy//]

I just want him to have a better recover, I've been gimped so many times from semi spike hits or having to up B early to avoid an attack only to not reach the ledge. his recovery is worse than ganondorf's.

other than that I find everything else about him to be calming and rewarding

Not at all! His recovery is not that bad, I hardly ever get gimped, and when I do it's always my fault: bad DI, wasting my 2nd jump accidentaly or choosing the wrong option can make you lose a stock, but that's just practice and being careful offstage. In some matchups it's really hard to recover, but I don't think Doc players should worry about that. Up B has a large hitbox and using Tornado + Pills makes Doc hard to gimp.

You know, now that I played Doc a bit more, I do agree his up air should have more hitstun.

I know right! I really hope they buff that.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Not at all! His recovery is not that bad, I hardly ever get gimped, and when I do it's always my fault: bad DI, wasting my 2nd jump accidentaly or choosing the wrong option can make you lose a stock, but that's just practice and being careful offstage. In some matchups it's really hard to recover, but I don't think Doc players should worry about that. Up B has a large hitbox and using Tornado + Pills makes Doc hard to gimp.



I know right! I really hope they buff that.

I wouldn't say those things make him hard to gimp, it just makes him harder to gimp than if he were doing nothing else. I feel if you boost his recovery he becomes a way better character. the pills are a great tool for recovery if you di properly, but other than that he can't really sacrifice any height if he's trying to recover.