Do you think sm4sh took inspiration from some Brawl hacks

[Yorsh]

Hey guys,
I used to love making and using mods for ssbb, then I stopped playing and doing all this stuff for years, but I started playing again with sm4sh. And I realised that maybe all the stuff we made for Brawl influanced the sm4sh dev team.

I know that, like most of the "old" compagnies, Nintendo can be dumb sometimes (for exempe they don't understand how important it is to have a competitive scene nowdays...) but I can't believe that when thousand of people creat new things everyday for years around your game, you don't have a look at it before creating a new game.

I started thinking about it few days ago, while selecting a costume for Lucina, and I was like "It's funny, in Brawl I made a lot of texture like this, trying to recreat Fire Emblem characters. It looks really the same...". I don't remember this kind of costume in Brawl, so to me it looks like all the texture hack thing inspired nintendo.
Same goes for Lucina or doctor Mario being alternate costumes (well, they was supposed to be), really looks like all the models peope made for brawl as alternate costume for a character.

There is no way to know if what I saying is bull**** or not, anyway it can be fun to talk about it IMO (I'm sorry if you did already).

Can you guys think about a hack in Brawl which could have inspired something in sm4sh (a psa, texture, model, stage...) ?

 

[Raijinken]

I highly doubt costumes and whatnot were really derived from mods (that's really far to broad of a content range, especially when Lucina's is only particularly unique in that it's not based on generalized unit army colors like Marth and Roy etc). But it's pretty obvious that some move properties had Project M and Brawl Minus, especially, as inspiration.

 

[Xermo]

Characters being represented with alternate colours have been around since the beginning.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Well, there are 100s, maybe 1000s of modders working on Brawl.



So they can make more ideas than Sakurai does.

 

[Random765]

Hey guys,
I used to love making and using mods for ssbb, then I stopped playing and doing all this stuff for years, but I started playing again with sm4sh. And I realised that maybe all the stuff we made for Brawl influanced the sm4sh dev team.

I know that, like most of the "old" compagnies, Nintendo can be dumb sometimes (for exempe they don't understand how important it is to have a competitive scene nowdays...) but I can't believe that when thousand of people creat new things everyday for years around your game, you don't have a look at it before creating a new game.

I started thinking about it few days ago, while selecting a costume for Lucina, and I was like "It's funny, in Brawl I made a lot of texture like this, trying to recreat Fire Emblem characters. It looks really the same...". I don't remember this kind of costume in Brawl, so to me it looks like all the texture hack thing inspired nintendo.
Same goes for Lucina or doctor Mario being alternate costumes (well, they was supposed to be), really looks like all the models peope made for brawl as alternate costume for a character.

There is no way to know if what I saying is bull**** or not, anyway it can be fun to talk about it IMO (I'm sorry if you did already).

Can you guys think about a hack in Brawl which could have inspired something in sm4sh (a psa, texture, model, stage...) ?

Yeah, I think they were influenced by Project M.

Though they'll never admit it.

 

[TheSmoothLander]

Yeah, I think they were influenced by Project M.

Though they'll never admit it.

Thats what I thought when I saw the Skyloft stage.

 

[Random765]

Thats what I thought when I saw the Skyloft stage.

Same here, just like DK's dash attack and the number of pikmin that Olimar can have.

Those are just the ones that I can name off the top of my head. Theres more of them.

 

[Raijinken]

Same here, just like DK's dash attack and the number of pikmin that Olimar can have.

Those are just the ones that I can name off the top of my head. Theres more of them.

Olimar gets four in PM, though.

And DK's dash goes offstage. It's also been around since DKC, so... taking inspiration from something that took inspiration from their own game?

 

[Yorsh]

taking inspiration from something that took inspiration from their own game?

Well, it's possible. it's actually very commun to exchange ideas like that. For example, the first moba game was dota, then league of legends took inspiration from it, then dota2 took inspiration from league.

Thats what I thought when I saw the Skyloft stage.

I don't know much about PM, I left Smash when it was still, well, a project.
Could you link me a picture of the PM stage you are referring too ?

 

[Raijinken]

The only thing Dota 2 took from League was the idea of being standalone instead of tied to Warcraft 3, but that's neither here nor there.

As for Skyloft and PM: Project M has a stage called Skyloft, known of old as Temple: M, based on the top-left section of Temple. In Smash4, Temple Omega has different fragments of the Temple floating in the sky in the background. One is the same portion Skyloft M was based on. Additionally, Project M's Skyloft gives you the visual tour, but the similarities stop thereabouts.

 

[Quillion]

Smash 4 seems to have taken some inspiration from Balanced Brawl (which I actually still play for fun and enjoy more than Smash U, BTW, though I've taken to just using mods on top of it now).

• Ganondorf's Warlock Punch has super armor. (grumble, grumble, I hate Ganondorf's portrayal in Smash and wish he had his own move set)
• Jab locks are limited.
• There's no tripping (then again, Brawl+ already did that).
• Base Knockback is generally increased in order to encourage the combo-light and neutral-heavy (or defensive..?) game.

@Amazing Ampharos and @ Thinkaman , I hope you guys are proud.

 

[Thinkaman]

To be blunt, I think the influence was "definitely zero". The communication gap is too big.

A teacher and students getting the same answer doesn't mean anyone copied each other, just that the answer was right.

 

[Yorsh]

A teacher and students getting the same answer doesn't mean anyone copied each other, just that the answer was right.

Yup, That's true. But if a teacher presents a project to a class, or better, a complete school, and let everyone try to improve his project, he will most likely have a look at what they have done before making his own improvements, or not.

Another hypothesis : few people in the development team played PM, or just checked brawl vault and loved what they found. Then they brought some ideas to the rest of the dev team, without saying it came from PM or other.


Some other things i though about :

Orbital assault stage remind me an old stage with 3 landmasters, then you had to go on airwings and other spaceships, but I can't find any pics...

And in the hunter psa someone really cool made, hmm, hmm, you was able to choose between using items or sword moves as special moves. When you had your sword, you could press B to take it away, and then all your B moves was about using items from Monster hunter. But if you used a smash or any moves that used the sword, you got your sword back until you use B again. Robin levin sword works pretty much the same, expect you don't have to press B to take it away.

 

[PHYTO-1]

thats exactly what i thought when i saw DK's dash attack and Charizard's seismic toss u-throw and new fair. exactly like project m

 

[HeavyLobster]

Smash 4 seems to have taken some inspiration from Balanced Brawl (which I actually still play for fun and enjoy more than Smash U, BTW, though I've taken to just using mods on top of it now).

• Ganondorf's Warlock Punch has super armor. (grumble, grumble, I hate Ganondorf's portrayal in Smash and wish he had his own move set)
• Jab locks are limited.
• There's no tripping (then again, Brawl+ already did that).
• Base Knockback is generally increased in order to encourage the combo-light and neutral-heavy (or defensive..?) game.

@Amazing Ampharos and @ Thinkaman , I hope you guys are proud.

The first 3 of those are pretty obvious additions. BBrawl's nowhere near as influential as PM anyway, so the chances of any of those changes being made in response to that particular mod are pretty slim to nonexistent. I could see PM maybe having an influence, but most of the similarities to it were long-overdue changes based on canon rather than things the PM team plucked out of nowhere.

 

[praline]

Nah it's just coincidence.

 

[orochiwolf]

I've noticed Ike's flames in PM were blue, and returned as blue in Smash 4.

And Megaman's moveset looks heavily inspired by McLeodGaming's Super Smash Flash 2.

 

[Yorsh]

I've noticed Ike's flames in PM were blue, and returned as blue in Smash 4.

That's because in the fire emblem on wii, Ike uses blue flames actually.

 

[kantoskies]

I really think saying that Smash hacks inspired parts of Smash 4 is really giving said hacks too much credit. It's far more likely that both Smash 4 and the hacks drew inspiration from the same places.

 

[erico9001]

Well Sakurai's Shulk has like nothing in common with my Brawl Mod Shulk. The only similarity is the down B, as we both had the idea of Shulk doing more of doing a vision and having Shulk dodge while attacking.

To be blunt, I think the influence was "definitely zero". The communication gap is too big.

A teacher and students getting the same answer doesn't mean anyone copied each other, just that the answer was right.

I know my Shulk mod moveset made it to japan. I was looking around NicoNico and found it in some Japanese brawl mod. I was surprised as it's not even a very popular mod. The modder did make some mild alterations, and gave it Japanese voices.

So really, who knows? It could even be that Sakurai watched some brawl mod videos for an idea on what not to do.