Do you think customizable movesets will effect the comp scene in anyway?

[lightdasher]

What with custom movesets now, do you think they'll be worked into the competitive scene at all? It could make some "low tier" characters better, or fill different roles and make match-ups different.

I'm no expert on the competitive scene, I mostly watch, doesn't mean I don't play though.

 

[Substitution]

It depends on if we're allowing them or not (and knowing us we probably won't).
Though if we do expect a massive change in matchups.

 

[lightdasher]

It depends on if we're allowing them or not (and knowing us we probably won't).
Though if we do expect a massive change in matchups.

I don't see why custom movesets shouldn't be allowed, it'd be like not letting Pokemon use different moves in the competitive scene.

 

[Substitution]

I don't see why custom movesets shouldn't be allowed, it'd be like not letting Pokemon use different moves in the competitive scene.

I'd assume it would have something to do with balance.
Stuff like this could cause large and at times rapid changes within the metagame.
And knowing how we are with hazards, this will be analyzed harshly. And that's saying people even consider it.

Though to be fair, I only really seeing it get banned if someone is downright broken because of said customization.

 

[skstylez]

I don't see why custom movesets shouldn't be allowed, it'd be like not letting Pokemon use different moves in the competitive scene.

And look how many moves & pokemon are banned

 

[lightdasher]

And look how many moves & pokemon are banned

I just looked up, on the Official Nintendo Tournaments only OHKO moves are banned.

 

[QuickRat]

What I think is maybe in some tournaments there is a specific standard of these custom moveset. I mean, maybe Mario is overpowered and Little Mac is awful, so the community needs a couple of changes in the moveset to balance those characters.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It may depend on how balanced the customization will be. For one example, faster attacks would be weaker, while slower attacks would be stronger.

 

[lightdasher]

It may depend on how balanced the customization will be. For one example, faster attacks would be weaker, while slower attacks would be stronger.

Would customizable movesets be allowed at all though, I mean if DK gets one super move that makes him OP (theoretically) would every other character have to suffer the loss of customizability just because of one move? or would we then go into "banned moves" ?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Would customizable movesets be allowed at all though, I mean if DK gets one super move that makes him OP (theoretically) would every other character have to suffer the loss of customizability just because of one move? or would we then go into "banned moves" ?

The custom Headbutt that Donkey Kong used will definitely have a major flaw though. Even though Donkey Kong had super armor while executing it, grabs outrank super armor frames.

 

[Pazzo.]

It could be banned, but I'm sure that other Smashers and myself will push for it to be legal. This isn't your old Smash, SSB4 will be significantly more balanced.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

One way to handle the custom moveset balancing is to have a power/speed balance meter, much like how there's a music/sound balance meter for the sound settings.

 

[lightdasher]

One way to handle the custom moveset balancing is to have a power/speed balance meter, much like how there's a music/sound balance meter for the sound settings.

I always thought of something like
Custom move A has 10 Power
Custom move B has 20 Power
Custom move C has 30 Power

And your overall limit can't exceed...30 for this example. So this character can't have custom moves A,B and C at the same time.

 

[TewnLeenk]

I'd love to see it become legal. It would add such a cool variety to the matches and players would really have to think about who to pick and which specials to use.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

There could always be default tournaments and custom moveset tournaments.

 

[Yikarur]

Depending on the effect this customizations have they will be allowed or not.
I'd really like a customizable game where you don't know what kind of Build your opponent is using until the moves has been used.
It is probably side event material and the core game will feature the main events of tournaments.
but I will for sure spend hours and hours testing modifications !

 

[skstylez]

I just looked up, on the Official Nintendo Tournaments only OHKO moves are banned.

Most people use Smogon. And are you sure? Mass sleeping teams? Double team till you can't get hit? I'm pretty sure they have more rules in place or those tournies are truly pointless

 

[lightdasher]

Most people use Smogon. And are you sure? Mass sleeping teams? Double team till you can't get hit? I'm pretty sure they have more rules in place or those tournies are truly pointless

I was looking at VGC.

 

[Tristan_win]

Hmmmm, you know I actually like the idea of a customizable options used in competitive play to help boost bot/low tier characters into a somewhat viable option. I mean think about it, everyone game would have the option so distribution wouldn't be a problem, instructions could be added to the tournament rules stating what is changed, and you would be able to check before match/sets easily to see if the correction are there.

There are some problems to this though.... For example people who are just entering the smash scene wont be use to the changes and it will help isolate us from the general crowed, which is bad. It will also open the flood gate of 'Oh so and so isn't good enough, lets swap out this move for this version.' However if we are smart, follow a few guidelines, and stick to a universal rule set we can make big improvements that wont isolate us too much. Here's the guidelines I suggest.

Guidelines
Wait at least 1 year or two tier list before changes are made
Never used to nerf a character
Bottom and low tier characters are the only one's that can be improved
Limited to 1 to maybe 2 changes made between tier list and only if they continue to be bot/low tier
Not all characters bot/low have to be changed

Think about Melee and Brawl Link, he's a fun character, he's unique but out of all the problems he has in his move set there's one that really stick out, his recovery. Yes that might be how he was designed to be but if we had a easy fix, a fix that would only effect link, that anyone could use to say... double the recovery range of his up B shouldn't we do it? Shouldn't we give Link a better chance and do you really think someone just entering the scene would find a change like that so strange? I don't and I'm for customizable options used in competitive play in a year or two from now.

 

[mimgrim]

I just looked up, on the Official Nintendo Tournaments only OHKO moves are banned.

Most people refer to Smogon when talking about competitive Pokemon. I believe they have more moves, or abilities, banned.

The custom Headbutt that Donkey Kong used will definitely have a major flaw though.

Was that confirmed to be a customized move? ._. EDIT - NVM, just rewatched the video.


Anyway OP. It really depends on the nature of custom moves in all honesty. They need to be able to be done fast and also have limited options. What was shown with Mario looks like a step in the right direction, having options A, B, or C for X move basically. It's too soon to tell how custom moves will affect character though.

 

[lami]

I could see the custom moves set being used if you can change the airdodge's properties to that of melee's, allowing for wavedashing. Really its up to the TO's and the community's view on how "fair" they are.

 

[Nippo]

Let me copypasta a thoughtful post on this I saw at GameFAQs:

For the 3DS, it's up in the air.

For the Wii U, no, but probably for logistical reasons more than balance reasons. Pretend that a tourney has 128 people competing in it. Every singe match, players are going to have to change their characters to what they want.

How long is that going to take? Will it be an easy "Mario Fireball A, B, or C" or will it be sliders that change characteristics "Mario Fireball, Speed 20%, Size 30%, Power 50%?" The former could be bearable, but the latter would be a nightmare. Then, consider that tournament players use multiple characters and will have to set them all up.

Let's assume that each moveset is locked to the name of the player (if it isn't then it won't work, since some people will play as the same character). The only practical way to speed along the process is to have a period before the event where players can set up their names ahead of time. That has its problems too. A person could stay at the set-up event for a long time and watch his foes set up to gain an advantage over them while they play blind. If it's a secretive thing done, then who is to say that someone won't screw up a moveset of someone else?

It's just not practical for the Wii U version unless it works like this- people can save their characters on their remote. In Pokemon Battle Revolution, you could save a team onto your Wiimote and then take it to a friend's house and play with that same team on their system. The question is whether that would work for the Pro Controllers or not.
---

 

[KingBroly]

I see customizeable movesets as a direct response to Project M. Imagine those guys making a Competition-Based Moveset for every character for Tournaments. It'd be great.

 

[Khao]

Let me copypasta a thoughtful post on this I saw at GameFAQs:

Solution? Allow players to copy their custom moveset data from their 3DS, which Sakurai already said was possible.

Players without their own 3DS would be at a disadvantage, though.

 

[SpiderJerusalem]

It's really hard to tell until we find out what custom movesets exactly entails. I can see certain combinations being banned, but otherwise I don't think it will be a problem. It's nice that it's optional though because it won't get too in the way

 

[Protom]

In see no reason for banning. I would just say that a person would not be allowed to switch moves between a set of matches, only before or after. (And I'm guessing custom moves are attached to a name tag, just like custom controls)

 

[PLATINUM7]

If it is banned, I can see some people hosting their own tournaments or even side tournaments where they are allowed.

 

[Shadow the Past]

Let me copypasta a thoughtful post on this I saw at GameFAQs:

Considering Sakurai is already taking inspiration from Marvel vs Capcom (see: Megaman's moveset), I imagine it would be a similar system to how they pick their special moves (whatever they're called, not a MvC guy lol), in that you have ~3 mods to pick from. Edit: wow the tilde on this font looks horrid lol. ~3 equals "about 3"

 

[PLATINUM7]

Considering Sakurai is already taking inspiration from Marvel vs Capcom (see: Megaman's moveset), I imagine it would be a similar system to how they pick their special moves (whatever they're called, not a MvC guy lol), in that you have ~3 mods to pick from. Edit: wow the tilde on this font looks horrid lol. ~3 equals "about 3"

Taking inspiration=one move and criticising how Mega Man is included in MvC?

 

[Mamp]

Knowing this communities history of bans, I strongly doubt that customizable movesets will be allowed.

 

[Shadow the Past]

Knowing this communities history of bans, I strongly doubt that customizable movesets will be allowed.

Not entirely sure what you're basing this off of. The only things the Smash community has banned outside of dumb stages and stalling is Wobbling in Melee and Meta Knight in Brawl, and there's still a huge divide on whether or not even those should be banned.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Not entirely sure what you're basing this off of. The only things the Smash community has banned outside of dumb stages and stalling is Wobbling in Melee and Meta Knight in Brawl, and there's still a huge divide on whether or not even those should be banned.

We banned items.

 

[Shadow the Past]

We banned items.

Damn, thought I had all my bases covered lol.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Damn, thought I had all my bases covered lol.

We also outright banned stage builder, so no matter how neutral a custom stage is, it won't be allowed.

 

[Renji64]

I don't see it but if it can be used to boost low tiers i wouldn't mind it.

 

[Nippo]

Considering Sakurai is already taking inspiration from Marvel vs Capcom (see: Megaman's moveset), I imagine it would be a similar system to how they pick their special moves (whatever they're called, not a MvC guy lol), in that you have ~3 mods to pick from. Edit: wow the tilde on this font looks horrid lol. ~3 equals "about 3"

I can tell you're not an MvC guy, because you actually pick each character's assist type, not their special moves. Because Smash isn't a tag team fighter, it's not comparable.

 

[Shadow the Past]

I can tell you're not an MvC guy, because you actually pick each character's assist type, not their special moves. Because Smash isn't a tag team fighter, it's not comparable.

That's what I meant, just wasn't sure what to call it. I was comparing the way the menu selection worked, not the in-game mechanics.

 

[Nippo]

Ah, in that case it would be comparable.

 

[Senario]

Well it won't be like assists in MvC. Depends on how fast you can set the customization when switching who is playing.

Also depends on if any of the customization options upset balance in a significant way (as in, make one character that is already good way too good). If it only really helped low tier characters it might not be a problem but that is wishful thinking. Basically, BALANCE end of story. I would love to see mario use fox laser like fire balls but the greater evil is having a character which is very high on the tier list normally become an absolute monster that isn't comparable to any other customization or character.

Chances are, it'll be really imbalanced and we won't use it. But on the off chance that it adds something great to the game without ruining balance then maybe it'll be worth a look for competitive. Some things may seem too good but really aren't, like super armor DK special which you can probably just grab them.

 

[TerraRizerKing]

I don't see it happening. There will probably be too many balance issues and trying to figure out what moves will and wont work. It could make for some good fun but in the competitive scene it wont blow over too well.