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Do you like Roy (the Fire Emblem Lord) as a character?

Quillion

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I could totally understand people wanting Mewtwo to return buffed since he's really popular among Pokemon fans and never deserved to be treated as a low-tier in the first place.

But what REALLY baffles me is that Smash Bros fans really want Roy to return. The problem with that is that, as far as I know, the Fire Emblem fandom considers Roy to be one of the blandest, most uninteresting Lords in the whole series. And he was both a clone AND low-tier in Melee, both of which are points against him.

Let's compare to Lucina. Even though her fans are upset that she's a clone, they're still generally happy that she's in the game since she's a very likable character. They're even defending the fact that she's a clone in spite of the anti-clone sentiment.

I'll direct this question in particular to Fire Emblem fans: do you actually like him as a character? This is different from liking him for his fiery sword. I'm asking: do you like his characterization?
 

the8thark

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Firstly this is no different to the Mewtwo or Snake fans who wanted their characters to return but did not. Time to get over it and move on. Roy was amazing in Melee. And is a great character in his own right too. But Sakurai said nope for Brawl and nope for SSB4. And we have to live with that.

Secondly your whole topic just feels like you don't like Roy and are try to say anyone who does is not correct. People have their own opinions and no one can stop that.

Thirdly, Roy did his job. He brought people (such as my self) back in the Melee days who knew nothing about Fire Emblem to take an interest. You can't base every action on the thoughts of the core FE fan base. If you want FE to have more releases in the west you have to broaden it's appeal and get non fans to become fans. Roy and Marth did that in Melee.

Fourthly, you have answered your own question and I quote from your own post:
Question: I'll direct this question in particular to Fire Emblem fans: do you actually like him as a character?
Answer: the Fire Emblem fandom considers Roy to be one of the blandest, most uninteresting Lords in the whole series. And he was both a clone AND low-tier in Melee, both of which are points against him.
I totally disagree about the clone part though. As he did play totally different to Marth. Just like Fox and Falco are different in their own right. And Roy was only considered garbage tier because no pro was willing to remove their hatred for the character long enough to give the character a good shot. I know as a very good casual, I found beating the game on very hard and the 51 challenges much easier with Roy than with any other character. But that's just me.
 

Quillion

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Firstly this is no different to the Mewtwo or Snake fans who wanted their characters to return but did not. Time to get over it and move on. Roy was amazing in Melee. And is a great character in his own right too. But Sakurai said nope for Brawl and nope for SSB4. And we have to live with that.

Secondly your whole topic just feels like you don't like Roy and are try to say anyone who does is not correct. People have their own opinions and no one can stop that.

Thirdly, Roy did his job. He brought people (such as my self) back in the Melee days who knew nothing about Fire Emblem to take an interest. You can't base every action on the thoughts of the core FE fan base. If you want FE to have more releases in the west you have to broaden it's appeal and get non fans to become fans. Roy and Marth did that in Melee.

Fourthly, you have answered your own question and I quote from your own post:

I totally disagree about the clone part though. As he did play totally different to Marth. Just like Fox and Falco are different in their own right. And Roy was only considered garbage tier because no pro was willing to remove their hatred for the character long enough to give the character a good shot. I know as a very good casual, I found beating the game on very hard and the 51 challenges much easier with Roy than with any other character. But that's just me.
1: I don't dislike Roy as a character or fighter at all. I just think that the other Fire Emblem Lords (and Robin) bring more to the table both as characters and/or as fighters. The only thing I dislike about Roy at all is because he's a clone.

2: Playing 1P modes or against the CPU is completely different from playing against a human. Heck, using certain tournament strategies against the CPU won't always work because of the input-reading.

3: There are plenty of valid reasons as to why Roy is low-tier. But the primary reasons are that he's slow, and his attacks have a horrible sourspot that are both uncomboable and too weak to be a KO move.
 

finalark

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The only reason why Roy was in the game was to promote Biding Blade, which is why we'll never see him again.

I don't know about Roy as a character, since I never played Binding Blade and I'm not hardcore enough to give the Japanese games a spin.
 

Quillion

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The only reason why Roy was in the game was to promote Biding Blade, which is why we'll never see him again.

I don't know about Roy as a character, since I never played Binding Blade and I'm not hardcore enough to give the Japanese games a spin.
This guy headed up an excellent fan translation of Binding Blade/Sword of Seals. You should give that a go.
 

FalKoopa

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Roy's personality in Binding Blade was rather generic, the usual good RPG hero.

I began to like him only because of his fire attacks in Melee, honestly. (That's probably the reason a good number of people want him to return... and he's a bit more unique than Lucina.)
 

Quillion

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Roy's personality in Binding Blade was rather generic, the usual good RPG hero.

I began to like him only because of his fire attacks in Melee, honestly. (That's probably the reason a good number of people want him to return... and he's a bit more unique than Lucina.)
Well, at least you're open about it (plus it's confirming my suspicions all along).

Lucina's a far better character, though.
 

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Well, at least you're open about it (plus it's confirming my suspicions all along).

Lucina's a far better character, though.
I mean, I understand the point you're getting at here and I do think it's interesting to see the perspective of people who want Roy in the game, but it seems like you're looking at "I like his fiery attacks" as a less valid reason to want him back. I have to question why it's a bad thing that people want Roy for his particular playstyle. Isn't that a pretty good reason to want a character in a fighting game that isn't driven by story?
 

finalark

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I don't think characterization is a noteworthy reason for wanting someone in Smash. Most characters in Nintendo's stable don't tend to have particularly complex personalities anyway. Even then, it's not like characters who do have personality are always portrayed 100% accurately.

I borrowed my friend's copy of Xenoblade since I really liked playing as Shulk in Smash 4. I can safely say that he is nowhere near as a big of a dork as he's portrayed as in Smash.
 

FinalArcadia

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When I played Roy in Melee, I thought he'd be really hot-headed and brash, just my impression from is appearance and voice. But then I played FE: Binding Blade and... he's not. At all. But he sure would've benefit it he had been, to me anyway.

In fact, he's really dull and my least favorite lord out of all the FEs I've played (6 through 13 minus 12), and honestly if I had to give a detailed description of his personality/character, I would struggle. He's just that basic and generic that he almost comes across as an easy protag to be a self-insert in a way. It's strange though since his dad definitely had a more interesting personality in FE7, he was actually likable.

I do like him in Smash though, so long as I forget his canon self. He at least has the illusion of personality in Melee, though Eliwood would be better in Smash as the main lord in the first international release.
 
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Quillion

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I mean, I understand the point you're getting at here and I do think it's interesting to see the perspective of people who want Roy in the game, but it seems like you're looking at "I like his fiery attacks" as a less valid reason to want him back. I have to question why it's a bad thing that people want Roy for his particular playstyle. Isn't that a pretty good reason to want a character in a fighting game that isn't driven by story?
You're right: I don't think it's a valid reason at all. And even if it was a valid reason, there are still a lot more reasons to not like him:

* His playstyle is subpar. Sure he's fun to play as at the lowest level of skill, but if you pick up Marth after playing Roy for a while, you'll realize that Speed>Power.
* He's a clone. They were lazy, minimal-effort jobs to pad out the roster in Melee, and they are still just that in 4.
* His characterization is bland and forgettable. The only really interesting thing about him is that he appeared in Melee to promote Sword of Seals, which wasn't even released outside of Japan and those who did play it didn't find the game very remarkable.
 

finalark

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* He's a clone. They were lazy, minimal-effort jobs to pad out the roster in Melee, and they are still just that in 4.
This is actually something I agree with. At least in Melee the clones (usually) had different standard attacks to set them apart. In Smash 4 you have Dark Pit (who I am very salty over) and Lucina who are hardly different from Pit and Marth, respectively.

That being said, I think that liking Roy's fire is a pretty good reason to want him back. Hell, people want Mewtwo back because he has cool attacks (plus he is THE iconic secret boss from the Pokemon series). Certainly not be because he's good.
 

Quillion

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This is actually something I agree with. At least in Melee the clones (usually) had different standard attacks to set them apart. In Smash 4 you have Dark Pit (who I am very salty over) and Lucina who are hardly different from Pit and Marth, respectively.

That being said, I think that liking Roy's fire is a pretty good reason to want him back. Hell, people want Mewtwo back because he has cool attacks (plus he is THE iconic secret boss from the Pokemon series). Certainly not be because he's good.
I thought people want Mewtwo back simply because they like him as a character.

In fact, I THOUGHT that would be the case as to why people want Roy back... but no one likes Roy as a character.
 

finalark

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I thought people want Mewtwo back simply because they like him as a character.

In fact, I THOUGHT that would be the case as to why people want Roy back... but no one likes Roy as a character.
The way you're talking about "liking as a character" implies that these characters have some sort of depths of personality. Now, I'm not saying that characters have to have a deep, complex personality to like them. People fall in love with one-note (or even no-note) characters like Dead Pool, Link or Gordan Freeman for other reason. Here though, you're talking about liking a character for having an interesting personality.

Mewtwo does not have a personality at all. He is simply a big scary monster who shows in a secret dungeon after you beat Pokemon 1 that you can catch and stomp all over the game with as your reward for finding him and defeating the final boss. People want him back for two reasons, A) Nostalgia B) Because all things considered he had a really cool moveset.

People want Roy back because he has cool attacks. That's pretty much it. It's not even a case of characterization, it's just what the character does.
 

Quillion

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The way you're talking about "liking as a character" implies that these characters have some sort of depths of personality. Now, I'm not saying that characters have to have a deep, complex personality to like them. People fall in love with one-note (or even no-note) characters like Dead Pool, Link or Gordan Freeman for other reason. Here though, you're talking about liking a character for having an interesting personality.

Mewtwo does not have a personality at all. He is simply a big scary monster who shows in a secret dungeon after you beat Pokemon 1 that you can catch and stomp all over the game with as your reward for finding him and defeating the final boss. People want him back for two reasons, A) Nostalgia B) Because all things considered he had a really cool moveset.

People want Roy back because he has cool attacks. That's pretty much it. It's not even a case of characterization, it's just what the character does.
"Liking as a character" doesn't necessarily entail liking the personality. I can't really define it concretely, though.
 

Firus

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You're right: I don't think it's a valid reason at all. And even if it was a valid reason, there are still a lot more reasons to not like him:

* His playstyle is subpar. Sure he's fun to play as at the lowest level of skill, but if you pick up Marth after playing Roy for a while, you'll realize that Speed>Power.
* He's a clone. They were lazy, minimal-effort jobs to pad out the roster in Melee, and they are still just that in 4.
* His characterization is bland and forgettable. The only really interesting thing about him is that he appeared in Melee to promote Sword of Seals, which wasn't even released outside of Japan and those who did play it didn't find the game very remarkable.
Okay...so you don't personally like him. That's fine. But you're also telling people that their reasons for enjoying playing with a character are not valid. That's not fine. Why does it affect you that other people like him, or at least like playing as him? Why do their reasons need to match up with your ideas to be valid? All that should matter is that that's what they enjoy. I don't understand why characterization is important to you within character choices in Smash Bros, but that's your choice and your opinion and it affects you, not me, so I'm not going to try and tell you that's not valid.

I mean, why do we even have Fire Emblem localized outside of Japan in the first place? It's because people like Marth and Roy in Melee, and an interest in the games developed elsewhere. We wouldn't have Fire Emblem here if people hadn't played with characters they didn't like based on their character. It's fine if that's something that is important to you, but clearly it's not important to everyone.
 

finalark

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I mean, why do we even have Fire Emblem localized outside of Japan in the first place? It's because people like Marth and Roy in Melee, and an interest in the games developed elsewhere. We wouldn't have Fire Emblem here if people hadn't played with characters they didn't like based on their character. It's fine if that's something that is important to you, but clearly it's not important to everyone.
The fact that Marth and Roy are the reason why we have international Fire Emblem makes me wonder why they didn't start by localizing Binding Blade first.
 

Muttley

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FE7 was the first to implement newage mechanics like "characterization" so of course Roy has no personality and I care for him like I care for a third cousin: vaguely
 
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Quillion

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Okay...so you don't personally like him. That's fine. But you're also telling people that their reasons for enjoying playing with a character are not valid. That's not fine. Why does it affect you that other people like him, or at least like playing as him? Why do their reasons need to match up with your ideas to be valid? All that should matter is that that's what they enjoy. I don't understand why characterization is important to you within character choices in Smash Bros, but that's your choice and your opinion and it affects you, not me, so I'm not going to try and tell you that's not valid.

I mean, why do we even have Fire Emblem localized outside of Japan in the first place? It's because people like Marth and Roy in Melee, and an interest in the games developed elsewhere. We wouldn't have Fire Emblem here if people hadn't played with characters they didn't like based on their character. It's fine if that's something that is important to you, but clearly it's not important to everyone.
We could have had Marth alone and that would have sufficed. Roy was just a clone sharing every single animation with Marth with fire properties added who was put in to advertise the upcoming Elibe games.

And that's another thing. What's with everyone saying that Roy has "cool attacks"? They're all the same as Marth's. There really isn't any validity to that statement.

So then Roy is a bland character, his attacks are the same as Marth's, he's low-tier, his game isn't very well-liked... WHAT IS THERE TO LIKE ABOUT ROY?
 

Metarai

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His hitbox placements are different than Marth's. It gives him a much different style. He's not just Marth with fire. I like to play both of them, and tier has nothing to do with how much people like a character.
 

FalKoopa

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We could have had Marth alone and that would have sufficed. Roy was just a clone sharing every single animation with Marth with fire properties added who was put in to advertise the upcoming Elibe games.

And that's another thing. What's with everyone saying that Roy has "cool attacks"? They're all the same as Marth's. There really isn't any validity to that statement.

So then Roy is a bland character, his attacks are the same as Marth's, he's low-tier, his game isn't very well-liked... WHAT IS THERE TO LIKE ABOUT ROY?
It's all subjective, you know. For an 8 year old kid, having a sword on fire is sufficiently cool. Heck, there are plenty of times I've jumped into his fully charged blazer just for the hilarity of it. Not everyone here is a tourney-goer, mind you. Roy is weak in 1-on-1, but that doesn't mean he's not fun to play as. Winning is not necessary for having fun, and in a non-tourney setting, it's not like you'll constantly lose when playing as him.

As for his game, it was actually a hit for his time. It doesn't hold up well compared to newer instalments, but it set the base for them. His game is not bad, just average. (You'll probably dislike Marth's Shadow Dragon a lot more.)

And one last point, people don't blindly hate clones. Falco was arguably more clone-y than Roy, but he's quite popular. Even Dr. Mario has his fans.

Also did I mention that "the more the merrier" is actually a very common mindset?
 

Firus

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We could have had Marth alone and that would have sufficed. Roy was just a clone sharing every single animation with Marth with fire properties added who was put in to advertise the upcoming Elibe games.

And that's another thing. What's with everyone saying that Roy has "cool attacks"? They're all the same as Marth's. There really isn't any validity to that statement.

So then Roy is a bland character, his attacks are the same as Marth's, he's low-tier, his game isn't very well-liked... WHAT IS THERE TO LIKE ABOUT ROY?
You misunderstand. I wasn't saying that Roy is important because he and Marth got Fire Emblem localized. I'm saying people liked the both of them enough within Melee to get it localized without having played the series before, without knowing what their characters were like. That means that clearly not everybody enjoys characters based solely on their characterization in their original game.

And Metarai is right, Roy's attacks are not the exact same as Marth's but with fire. And even if that weren't the case, if somebody thinks "Marth's attack + fire = cool" then that's their opinion and you can't tell them it's not valid. (Well, you can, but that statement in and of itself is not valid.)

People have given you what they like about Roy, regardless of the amount of "validity" you perceive in their opinions, so I don't know why you're asking that question.
 

Quillion

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Thing is that Roy's attacks could have been given to any of the other sword-wielding Lords in the series: Sigurd, Seliph, Eliwood, Chrom; even Lucina or Ike, and it would have made no difference.

If you just like the playstyle and not the character, Roy is easily replaced.
 

finalark

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I'm really not sure why you have such a strong distaste for Roy, since, if it just boils down to characterization in his home game, Marth isn't a particularly interesting guy either.
 

Quillion

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I'm really not sure why you have such a strong distaste for Roy, since, if it just boils down to characterization in his home game, Marth isn't a particularly interesting guy either.
At least he's well liked (in Japan) for being the first Lord of the series. He set the standard for all Lords after him and he is thus an icon of his series.

Mewtwo is well-liked all over the world for being an awesome Pokémon with great stats, being a challenging catch, and a badass design and aura in his home game. He's an icon among Legendary Pokémon. And in Melee he had a cool-looking moveset, and people actually pitied Mewtwo for being low-tier instead of hating him for it.

Roy... doesn't having anything going for him.
 

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At least he's well liked (in Japan) for being the first Lord of the series. He set the standard for all Lords after him and he is thus an icon of his series.
You really shouldn't base your opinion on what others think about him. Just because others like/dislike him doesn't you should as well.

Mewtwo is popular everywhere, but that doesn't mean I am forced to like him.

Different people have different reasons as to why they like him. Some like him for his fire sword (like me), there are some who like him because he is a bishōnen (pretty boy), and there are some who liked his game (actually many, it was a bit of a revival for the franchise). There can be many other reasons and no reason is less valid/legitimate than any other.

You need to embrace that a person can have any and every reason to like a character, no reason is invalid. That is clouding your judgement.
 
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Quillion

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You really shouldn't base your opinion on what others think about him. Just because others like/dislike him doesn't you should as well.

Mewtwo is popular everywhere, but that doesn't mean I am forced to like him.

Different people have different reasons as to why they like him. Some like him for his fire sword (like me), there are some who like him because he is a bishōnen (pretty boy), and there are some who liked his game (actually many, it was a bit of a revival for the franchise). There can be many other reasons and no reason is less valid/legitimate than any other.

You need to embrace that a person can have any and every reason to like a character, no reason is invalid. That is clouding your judgement.
Again, if you only like the sword and not the character himself, Roy is easily replaceable.

Ike has a little bit of fire to appease the Roy fans. And he's both a more well-liked character AND a fighter who brings more to the table than Roy does. Roy's just a generic FE Lord. Ike is a badass mercenary who goes from inexperienced newcomer to awesome leader.
 

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@ Quillion Quillion
You need to embrace that a person can have any and every reason to like a character, no reason is invalid. That is clouding your judgement.
I'm just going to quote FalKoopa again because you've yet again ignored this point. Why do you hate Roy so much that you won't consider others liking him to be valid? I think you'll find yourself a lot happier if you focus on things that you like instead of getting frustrated that others like things you don't.
 

Metarai

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Like I said before, Roy has a completely different style than Marth, or Ike (who shouldn't really have fire on his sword) for that matter. Roy in his character is not bland, he is a 15 year old who leads his father's army. Not everyone likes Roy for his sword. Why do you hate so much on what other people like? Even if you don't agree, at least respect their decision.
 

Quillion

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Roy in his character is not bland, he is a 15 year old who leads his father's army.
That's actually really common within the Fire Emblem series. Do you like his character otherwise?

And something I'm really surprised about: If you really liked Roy that much, did anyone play the fan translation of Binding Blade? I'm not seeing a lot of people who did.
 
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I could totally understand people wanting Mewtwo to return buffed since he's really popular among Pokemon fans and never deserved to be treated as a low-tier in the first place.

But what REALLY baffles me is that Smash Bros fans really want Roy to return. The problem with that is that, as far as I know, the Fire Emblem fandom considers Roy to be one of the blandest, most uninteresting Lords in the whole series. And he was both a clone AND low-tier in Melee, both of which are points against him.

Let's compare to Lucina. Even though her fans are upset that she's a clone, they're still generally happy that she's in the game since she's a very likable character. They're even defending the fact that she's a clone in spite of the anti-clone sentiment.

I'll direct this question in particular to Fire Emblem fans: do you actually like him as a character? This is different from liking him for his fiery sword. I'm asking: do you like his characterization?
I have played through all Fire Emblem games, and I look forward to firsthand playing all three routes of Fates.

Roy is one of the most interesting lords to me. From his down-to-earth nature, naive and awkward moments, smart moments where he does and says things that catch other characters off guard or exposes their intentions, noble/kind traits, and ability to handle so much responsibility as just a young boy, I don't see why people feel the need to downplay him just because they wanted "unique" lord or FE character that will never get in smash #489534, or because they want their own bandwagon or flavor of the month character they care so little about, that they talk down characters out of salt or just because they think it helps their own character's chances. It's so lame. He's not bland, he's just cliche. He's still a pretty cool guy. All Fire Emblem lords are extremely cliche besides PoR Ike, so I just don't get it.

Roy. Cliche? Yes. Bland? Hell no.

FE fans don't give him credit, yet praise characters who have much less going for them in personality, importance, viability, and depth, like Hector and Lucina. Hector falls off before mid-game and doesn't get enough to pick him back up, especially in HNM/HHM, and Lucina is entirely redundant halfway through the game at Lv10 unpromoted when you have so many ways to break the game by then that she's useless, even from a novice standpoint I've seen plenty of this. Hector is a third-wheel brute that never really develops at all, Lucina's entire character plays off of being in Marth's shadow with traits that intentionally make her uninteresting. I find Roy a better character than both of them in every way. In terms of pure character, I think Roy's much better than the FE2 lords, the FE8 lords, the FE7 lords, Micaiah, Sothe, Chrom, Lucina, and Kamui.

If you find Lucina any bit likable, you're in for a treat with Roy.

As for stats, Roy has his share of weaknesses. Low base stats and late promotion+SoS go against him. I never did Hammerne the SoS and still never starved on uses, so I don't consider SoS's low durability a weakness. He has excellent growths, fast supports with a highly viable and large support roster, and lots of early-game utility, but he falls off for quite a while (where he can still meatshield with HP bulk to help other units and build supports to be even more unstoppable after promotion as well as help other units, both making him a dedicated team player) and picks back up as a beast, though not that much more than other units. You can easily play around his weaknesses, and he functions like a pawn in chess. That's what Japanese players like about him.

Roy is not one of the strongest lords. However, I'd take him over a good handful of lords stat-wise, and many personality-wise.

I wanted him in Smash because his lack of inclusion was an injustice. The character who was there after series creator Shozou Kaga and his team poofed, on top of FE64's cancellation and 776's notably poor launch long through the N64's life on the SNES of all times, the character who was a large part of bringing Fire Emblem to the west, the character who our first overseas title built off of, and one of the most requested DLC characters of all time should not be left out. FE6 and 7 both reviewed and sold incredibly well. "True" series fans should embrace what Roy did and see that we wouldn't have Ike, Lucina, or Robin without him, at least in Smash. Ike did exist in FE64, but that's a scrapped project with very little progress which wouldn't be touched on until a decade later as PoR.

Roy did a lot for Fire Emblem, so even if many can't appreciate it, he is a highly justified choice. Those who like Roy for his playstyle or Fire Emblem appearance or to defend veterans learn these things.

Roy detractors are either pure Smash fans who don't want him and dig for whatever they can find because salt, Awakening-only players because they could care less about anything other than modern FE, or a small niche of western FE fans who constantly scream and jack off over lords that make it easier for novice players to do a basic playthrough and their waifus. It's disgusting and these are the parts of the fanbase that make me ashamed of it.

Many Fire Emblem fans love Roy and wanted him back. Mainly cringey ones didn't.

I found Roy very interesting in Smash via characterization and how unique he was as a clone, but I saw his declone potential and wanted them to go that route. Clone or not, Fire Emblem owes a lot to Roy and his lack of inclusion was questionable. He wasn't in to promote FE6, he was in because a Marth clone was needed and he had the most to offer as one. He was chosen to represent Fire Emblem rather than FE6, and it's easy to see this with his DLC inclusion.

FYI, Sakurai loves Fire Emblem and has played through all titles, even all three routes of Fates already. He understands the history of the series, both via the games and outside of them. That's why it makes sense Roy was added.
 
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Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
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I love it when haters are shown up like this. :p
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
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Um....Lost?
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I just find it funny that people call Roy bland when we got :4marth: or you know...

Half the roster.
 
D

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When Roy's our boy so yes. But all kidding aside he is a great character and a good Fire Emblem rep so yes.
 

Weedy Spyze

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In the context of Smash, yes. I loved playing as him in Melee, because as a kid I thought he was cooler than Marth. That being said, I never expected/asked for him to return in Smash 4, but I'm glad he did. He's one of my favorite characters to play as.
 
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Aetheri

W/E happens don't panic...
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:4feroy: Second favourite DLC character (unless Bayo somehow overtakes him but we'll see)...

Definitely was good to see our boy return!
 
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