Do you find wavedashing out of shine or double lasers harder?

[_Chrome]

Since entering the Melee tournament scene earlier this year, I've been practicing my Fox by not only playing people, but studying frame data, practicing tech skill, and watching videos to study. I have a question for everyone; how long does it take to figure out to consistently wavedash out of shine? I've learned how to double laser and I can sometimes b-reverse the double laser, but I'm having a harder time learning how to wavedash out of shine. Does anyone have any advice or tips for me?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Practice it in slow-mo first and work your way up. It has to be muscle memory so just brainless practicing is the way to go.

Make sure you get it right though by getting maximum wavedash distance.

 

[_Chrome]

Thank you very much. Will do as soon as the school year is over!

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

Just wondering how do you guys practice double laser? I am having trouble with both so I decided to ask here.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Flick your thumb from X to B or Y to B and don't be scared of pressing the A button along the way to the B button. Its a pretty simple motion and ends up being one of the easiest things to do consistently with fox but it does appear hard in the beginning. Like all his techs its just about finding the most efficient way to do them. Experiment with the flick motion.

 

[_Chrome]

I find that to do it consistently you have to shoot the first laser just before he reaches the apex of his short hop, though somebody tell me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: Many people have told me that it's easier to do if you use tap jump or Y.

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

Yeah, I use Y to tap, X just seems weird. So I have to shoot the first laser before he reaches the top of his jump, then press B as fast as I can?
P.S. worked on waveshining a lot today and I think the trouble is I normally full hop with Y instead of shorthopping.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

Just short hop and press B+B as soon as possible. One big mental block for me when I was learning this was realizing that you can't lift your thumb up between pressing Y and B like you would for any other button sequence. You need to flick your thumb in one motion without raising it or you won't be fast enough. It's similar to multi-shine timing if you can do that.

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

I use Y to jump when doing technical stuff like waveshine, but for short hop double laser I use control stick. Is this bad?

 

[Ghetto Blush]

I use Y to jump when doing technical stuff like waveshine, but for short hop double laser I use control stick. Is this bad?

It's harder to move around while doing it, but if you have that down then more power to you.

 

[TehGuitarLord]

In general, y is so useful on fox. Not just with double lasers, but multishining too. Considering that I main Mario, learning how to double laser wasn't that difficult for me since I knew how to move my thumb to b quickly with multishining, and that Mario requires intense button mashing to recover lol. I personally found waveshining more difficult, since it's strenuous on my left hand more than my right. It depends on the person. Just practice and you'll get it.

 

[Ting Sing]

I just slide my thumb from Y to B. You start to learn how fast you need to do it, and I don't even bother fast falling. I find it harder to tap jump to shdl, but I'm a player that doesn't use tap jump anyway so yeah.

 

[Rachman]

Just short hop and press B+B as soon as possible. One big mental block for me when I was learning this was realizing that you can't lift your thumb up between pressing Y and B like you would for any other button sequence. You need to flick your thumb in one motion without raising it or you won't be fast enough. It's similar to multi-shine timing if you can do that.

I read this when you posted it and it improved my SHDL's drastically...I feel so stupid for not thinking of it in this way before but just wanted to thank you for the advice as a newer Fox. I had avoided the gun almost completely but I'm definitely going to be using it more in floaty MU's at the very least now as I get retreating SHDL's down 100%

 

[Ghetto Blush]

I read this when you posted it and it improved my SHDL's drastically...I feel so stupid for not thinking of it in this way before but just wanted to thank you for the advice as a newer Fox. I had avoided the gun almost completely but I'm definitely going to be using it more in floaty MU's at the very least now as I get retreating SHDL's down 100%

Cool. I'm glad I could help someone out. I'm still learning, too.

 

[Mikkelmann]

It took me a day to learn both of these techs because i'm used to my fingers acting really fast but here are some ways you can learn to practice them without learning frame data. The way I SHDL and Retreat SHDL is that I short hop and think of it as motion of order actions such as "i have to short hop, then lightly, press back double laser (press B twice right when you jump). And for wavedashing and waveshineing it's the same thing action in a correct order such as "I need to jump and then air dodge" and "I have to shine, jump, air dodge and shine". So the way I learn tech without any frame data is actions in an order works everytime.

 

[zabimaru1000]

It honestly pretty much the same amount of difficulty for both. Since both require use of consistently sliding from Y to B. Unless your method of SHDL is tap jump to B.

 

[Ghetto Blush]

It took me a day to learn both of these techs because i'm used to my fingers acting really fast but here are some ways you can learn to practice them without learning frame data. The way I SHDL and Retreat SHDL is that I short hop and think of it as motion of order actions such as "i have to short hop, double laser (press B twice right when you jump) then lightly press back". And for wavedashing and waveshineing it's the same thing action in a correct order such as "I need to jump and then air dodge" and "I have to shine, jump, air dodge and shine". So the way I learn tech without any frame data is actions in an order works everytime.

Wait what? You have to move the control stick before you press B.

Also one way to do pseudo RSHDL is to pivot right before you jump. This allows you to run away while facing your opponent and shooting lasers. This doesn't make you jump backwards like an actual RSHDL but it's useful for micro spacing in situations where you don't want to give up center stage or you're next to the ledge. It's also very easy to do in comparison to RSHDL, as you can do it out of a dash dance simply by ending your dash dance in the direction you want to face and then doing the SHDL motion.

 

[Mikkelmann]

Wait what? You have to move the control stick before you press B.

Also one way to do pseudo RSHDL is to pivot right before you jump. This allows you to run away while facing your opponent and shooting lasers. This doesn't make you jump backwards like an actual RSHDL but it's useful for micro spacing in situations where you don't want to give up center stage or you're next to the ledge. It's also very easy to do in comparison to RSHDL, as you can do it out of a dash dance simply by ending your dash dance in the direction you want to face and then doing the SHDL motion.

Oh i miss typed XD. I was on phone so I miss typed some things thanks for the correction.