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Do You Care About Your Record In FG?

A_Kae

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
748
If you really have that much lag that often then it is probably your connection that is to blame and in that case your opponents are the ones that should really be complaining about it instead of you.
Online has lag. It's just the way these things work. You can't have an online match be completely lag free, not like a local match, and that's why I don't consider online to be a good measure of skill. Even a single frame makes a difference. It's great when I can find an opponent with very low lag, but it doesn't happen often enough. A few times every session, usually.

Edit: And I can say for sure that it's not my connection. It's just that the majority of players on FG are super laggy, super campy links (and things like them). I've had matches with about as little lag as is actually possible, but there are way more people on FG with bad connections than good. And when you've got that kind of situation, win rate doesn't matter much.
 
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1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
ROB doesn't have to constantly approach projectile spammers in lag, on perma FD as a big heavy character with mediocre movespeed. Heck, i'd argue that the conditions of For Glory actually benefit ROB, even against his bad MU's.

Whereas someone like Charizard is greatly hindered by it.
Then maybe you should use someone else? I always face R.O.B.'s worst matchups with R.O.B. and win about 99% of the time cuz FG is full of noobs so I keep using R.O.B. but if you do not have the skill to face your bad matchups on FG then you could secundairy a counterpick.

Although obviously now you have the advanatage of a nice excuse when you lose. Well it is not that nice since it is your fault that you picked a bad character. Personally I think you should download more when you are losing and blame the lag.
 

G-Guy

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
807
NNID
G-Guy1990
I'll be honest, ever since the game came out I have had bad internet. Like, not even 1Mbit kind of bad, so enjoying Nintendo games online hasn't been much fun...

...however, recently I am proudly using 55MB connection and finally things are lighting up. Played 1-2 hours of FG today, straight.
I am still getting a little peeved when I find a Laggy link who spams and gets away with it (because i am just not used to that, yet), but if I find people who beat me by pure skill, I even congratulate them via tags.

So no, I never really care for my stats, knowing that many of these losses are unjustified anyways.

I rather enjoy the time playing against better people, getting my butt kicked while I am learning how to improve.

Applause to all you awesome, friendly and polite FG-goers. I hope to see you soon!

GGuy
 

Grizzlpaw

Rawr~ ♪
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,765
Location
Charific Valley
3DS FC
1289-9519-4206
Then maybe you should use someone else? I always face R.O.B.'s worst matchups with R.O.B. and win about 99% of the time cuz FG is full of noobs so I keep using R.O.B. but if you do not have the skill to face your bad matchups on FG then you could secundairy a counterpick.

Although obviously now you have the advanatage of a nice excuse when you lose. Well it is not that nice since it is your fault that you picked a bad character. Personally I think you should download more when you are losing and blame the lag.


That's all well and good... if you actually care about your winrate, which, might I remind everyone, is a number that only you can see. It's unlikely that we'll be able to agree with each other, since we obviously view success in two very different ways.

People have been "johning" about lag since the begining of time...

well... the begining of smash netplay :facepalm:
but to say that those "excuses" have no validity is a pretty big claim. There are obviously some characters that benefit from lag more than others. A character like charizard who relies on precision, baits, positioning, ect. is going to have a tough time in lag. Charizard players thrive when they're able to bait their opponents into a bad situation and capitalize quickly.

ROB, on the otherhand can mindlessly toss out a barrage of lazers and gyros. Which forces the opponent to play a painful game of trying to powershield through the projectiles. But even if your powersheild game is on point, there are always going to be those changes in the amount of input delay you get from moment to moment. As the ROB player, you might not notice it, but for the person trying to powershield the projectiles, there will be those moments where you know you hit the shield button 5 frames before the projectile hit you, but your sheild didn't register at all. I'm not saying that all ROB's will abuse lag, but there's no denying that ROB does benifit from lag. Excuse or not, lag is a real factor in games that makes certain characters rise and fall in viability as a result.

You mentioned about having the skill to face your bad matchups. Well consider which "skills" are required to face each bad MU, and how lag affects them.

I just mentioned how ROB is benifited from lag because of how much stronger his projectile game becomes. This makes his bad MU's better because he can simply outcamp his opponent. Even opponents with reflectors will have a harder time, since they won't be able to reflect his projectiles on reaction, they'll have to read when the ROB is going to toss them out, and hope that they did so quickly enough, or their input might not register in time.

I shouldn't have to explain why a big heavy character like charizard would be hindered vs his bad MU's. Especially if his opponent is someone with an abusable projectile game. The amount of skill required to beat your bad MU's goes up significantly in lag. It doesn't matter if you're obviously a beter player than them. If you can't approach it's game over.

:006:

So why don't all the heavyweight mains of for glory pick up a secondary? Well, some do. But others, like myself don't necesarily feel the need to. There are going to be some games that I lose to lag. It happens. Instead of getting angry about it, I just leave and look for someone with a better connection. If i really cared about my winrate so much, I'd drop charizard entirely in favor of another character, but I play this game to have fun with the characters that I enjoy using. If I want to go tryhard mode, I'll do it in tournament, or on Anther's Ladder, but in For Glory, my only goal is to improve my skill as a player. Winrate is certainly a decent way to guage my success, but at the end of the day it's tournament wins that are going to bring in the cash.

For Glory winrates are still just a number.
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
That's all well and good... if you actually care about your winrate, which, might I remind everyone, is a number that only you can see. It's unlikely that we'll be able to agree with each other, since we obviously view success in two very different ways.

People have been "johning" about lag since the begining of time...

well... the begining of smash netplay :facepalm:
but to say that those "excuses" have no validity is a pretty big claim. There are obviously some characters that benefit from lag more than others. A character like charizard who relies on precision, baits, positioning, ect. is going to have a tough time in lag. Charizard players thrive when they're able to bait their opponents into a bad situation and capitalize quickly.

ROB, on the otherhand can mindlessly toss out a barrage of lazers and gyros. Which forces the opponent to play a painful game of trying to powershield through the projectiles. But even if your powersheild game is on point, there are always going to be those changes in the amount of input delay you get from moment to moment. As the ROB player, you might not notice it, but for the person trying to powershield the projectiles, there will be those moments where you know you hit the shield button 5 frames before the projectile hit you, but your sheild didn't register at all. I'm not saying that all ROB's will abuse lag, but there's no denying that ROB does benifit from lag. Excuse or not, lag is a real factor in games that makes certain characters rise and fall in viability as a result.

You mentioned about having the skill to face your bad matchups. Well consider which "skills" are required to face each bad MU, and how lag affects them.

I just mentioned how ROB is benifited from lag because of how much stronger his projectile game becomes. This makes his bad MU's better because he can simply outcamp his opponent. Even opponents with reflectors will have a harder time, since they won't be able to reflect his projectiles on reaction, they'll have to read when the ROB is going to toss them out, and hope that they did so quickly enough, or their input might not register in time.

I shouldn't have to explain why a big heavy character like charizard would be hindered vs his bad MU's. Especially if his opponent is someone with an abusable projectile game. The amount of skill required to beat your bad MU's goes up significantly in lag. It doesn't matter if you're obviously a beter player than them. If you can't approach it's game over.

:006:

So why don't all the heavyweight mains of for glory pick up a secondary? Well, some do. But others, like myself don't necesarily feel the need to. There are going to be some games that I lose to lag. It happens. Instead of getting angry about it, I just leave and look for someone with a better connection. If i really cared about my winrate so much, I'd drop charizard entirely in favor of another character, but I play this game to have fun with the characters that I enjoy using. If I want to go tryhard mode, I'll do it in tournament, or on Anther's Ladder, but in For Glory, my only goal is to improve my skill as a player. Winrate is certainly a decent way to guage my success, but at the end of the day it's tournament wins that are going to bring in the cash.

For Glory winrates are still just a number.
Charizard is king in lag cuz Rock Smash and Flamethrower and R.O.B. suck in lag cuz I cannot do aerials with the Gyro in lag and it messes up my Nair spacing. And saying that characters with reflectors will have a harder time against R.O.B. in lag is BS. If I keep spamming projectiles then they do not need to react. they just need to keep their reflector up and reflect on prediction. That forces R.O.B. to approach and that is why he is screwed in lag. Also I often catch reflected Gyro's. This requires good timing and is very hard to do in lag. So lag makes their reflector even better.

And winrate is a crappy way to measure skill do not pretend that I ever said otherwise. A good system to measure how good people play compared to each other needs to give more points when beating good players and less points for beating bad ones. And the penalty it gives for losing needs to be bigger the worse the opponent is. Win rate does not do that and that is why it is not a very good measure of how well you play compared to others.
 

GhostUrsa

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
523
Location
Minnesota
NNID
GhostUrsa
3DS FC
1220-6542-6727
I've stopped caring about my W/L ratio, though I will use my last 10 and last 100 statistics to look for trends in my fighting style. Short term information has more weight for me when used in conjunction with replays and critic than a stat that is career long.
 

Capita

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Messages
140
Location
Houston, TX
NNID
n1ntendogamer
I'm not going to lie, if there were some kind of leaderboard with people able to see your win-loss record, I'd probably be obsessive over my win-loss record (not farming noobs obsessive, but enough to where I try). But truth is, no one is able to see your record and I don't think it has a significant influence on who you are paired up with. I do put a little effort in winning so I can hopefully be paired up with people that are near or above my skill level, but often I'll just have fun and try to style like crazy. I do take looks at my record from time to time because it looks cool seeing how high my win rate can get. I remember when I got my last 50 games at 100% and was close to getting last 100 at 100% until I played this really good Shiek that I beat first game due to an SD, but then later got bodied like 10 games straight.
 

Mizzy Moe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
149
3DS FC
3883-6486-6414
Charizard is king in lag cuz Rock Smash and Flamethrower
contrary to whatever you think charizard is in fact not the king of lag flamethrower must i remind you runs out aka think of it as robs fuel. and anyone that plays charizard wont (or shouldnt) spam rock smash. its a good landing option since you get the armor and an okay kill option if your desperate for it.

please dont act like rob isnt good in lag hes one of the best only other person i can think of off the top of my head is samus
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
contrary to whatever you think charizard is in fact not the king of lag flamethrower must i remind you runs out aka think of it as robs fuel. and anyone that plays charizard wont (or shouldnt) spam rock smash. its a good landing option since you get the armor and an okay kill option if your desperate for it.

please dont act like rob isnt good in lag hes one of the best only other person i can think of off the top of my head is samus
Not only does Zard have Rock Smash and Flamethrower for easy laggy damage racking but he also has Flare Blitz which in lag becomes an extremely hard to dodge kill move that kill svery early, making him the kill master of the laggy battles.
 

Grizzlpaw

Rawr~ ♪
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,765
Location
Charific Valley
3DS FC
1289-9519-4206
I would rather not continue this argument. I'm pretty sure the thread has been derailed enough as is.

However, I do want to clear up some very common misconceptions about char, espeically those centered around the infamous flare blitz

Charizard is good in lag... in theory. He hits hard, he has that lovely flamethrower, and I won't lie. Flamethrower is amazing in and out of lag. It's just a good move period. The downside is that flamethrower is the sole reason why charizard doesn't get pooped on in the neutral by most characters. His moves are fairly slow, have tons of cooldown, and are easily punished even in lag. If your chararacter has a solid way to get around flamethrower, charizard will have a tough time.

(Examples: Rob's Lazer goes thorugh it. ZSS can flip kick charizard for commiting to it on reaction. Yoshi's outrange and pierce through it)

I suggest you head over to the charizard boards and look at the metagame discussion. See what the #1 weakness people complain about it. I guarantee you it will be that his neutral is bad. I said before that charizard's approach game is bad. He can't just rush people down without some kind of gameplan. He doesn't have the safest of pokes to toss out in the neutral. He needs a soft read at least in order to land a hit. The only safe thing he can do in neutral against most characters is flamethrower. It's an amazing move, but does not make up for his lack of a neutral game over all. He cannot spam it either. It's a one time use move, then he has to do without it for a while. If the enemy avoids it, he's in lag for long enough to punish him before he can move out of the way.

Rocksmash is good, but has a ton of cooldown. Rocksmash helps make char's anti-approach game good enough that you can't just rush him down blindly, but if you can bait this move out, it's a free punish for you. Fast characters excel at this. Campy charaters only have to worry about rocksmash at close rage. It's mostly a "get off me tool", and a risky one at that.

Flarebltiz isn't good in lag. I can say from experience that it is not, that is a very common misconception about char. Flareblitz isn't good in lag because the opponent has plenty of time to react to it. It has an extremely obvious visual and audio que before it goes off. If you look out for that and press shield the instant you see/hear it, you're fine. Not only that, you get a free punish on charizard... and getting punished as charizard is terrible. It's so easy to wrack up % on him once you've got him in the air.

Flareblitz can be hard to dodge, but only under three circumstances.

1. The enemy is trying to land without their double jump.

Flareblitz is amazing for punishing landings. If the enemy has no double jump, and you time it properly they won't be able to avoid it.
The thing is, lag actually makes this harder to do. You have to time it perfectly, or the enemy will land and shield. If that happens. RIP

2. After a missed Tech.

Flare Blitz is great for tech chasing, It covers multiple options at once. But once again, lag actually makes this harder to do, since miss-timing the flare blitz will often send you off stage. Once that happens it's good bye stage control.

3. If the opponent has already commited to something

This is a read. If you know for a fact that the enemy is going to commit to something laggy, like a projectile, blitz will armor though it and hit them.
But there's a pattern to all of this, all of these things need to be timed well in order to work. If you do it just a split second too late, good opponents will shield and punish.

As for the rest of his moves. They're all fairly slow with mediocre priority at best. He's not a difficult character to react to if he's rushing at you. His combos are read-reliant, he has to be on point with his reads or the enemy can often just toss out an attack and outspeed or outprioritize his.

:006:
 
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abx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
234
Location
Germany
All these posts abount not caring I wonder when all the try hards show up I deal with regularly show up.
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
I would rather not continue this argument. I'm pretty sure the thread has been derailed enough as is.

However, I do want to clear up some very common misconceptions about char, espeically those centered around the infamous flare blitz

Charizard is good in lag... in theory. He hits hard, he has that lovely flamethrower, and I won't lie. Flamethrower is amazing in and out of lag. It's just a good move period. The downside is that flamethrower is the sole reason why charizard doesn't get pooped on in the neutral by most characters. His moves are fairly slow, have tons of cooldown, and are easily punished even in lag. If your chararacter has a solid way to get around flamethrower, charizard will have a tough time.

(Examples: Rob's Lazer goes thorugh it. ZSS can flip kick charizard for commiting to it on reaction. Yoshi's outrange and pierce through it)

I suggest you head over to the charizard boards and look at the metagame discussion. See what the #1 weakness people complain about it. I guarantee you it will be that his neutral is bad. I said before that charizard's approach game is bad. He can't just rush people down without some kind of gameplan. He doesn't have the safest of pokes to toss out in the neutral. He needs a soft read at least in order to land a hit. The only safe thing he can do in neutral against most characters is flamethrower. It's an amazing move, but does not make up for his lack of a neutral game over all. He cannot spam it either. It's a one time use move, then he has to do without it for a while. If the enemy avoids it, he's in lag for long enough to punish him before he can move out of the way.

Rocksmash is good, but has a ton of cooldown. Rocksmash helps make char's anti-approach game good enough that you can't just rush him down blindly, but if you can bait this move out, it's a free punish for you. Fast characters excel at this. Campy charaters only have to worry about rocksmash at close rage. It's mostly a "get off me tool", and a risky one at that.

Flarebltiz isn't good in lag. I can say from experience that it is not, that is a very common misconception about char. Flareblitz isn't good in lag because the opponent has plenty of time to react to it. It has an extremely obvious visual and audio que before it goes off. If you look out for that and press shield the instant you see/hear it, you're fine. Not only that, you get a free punish on charizard... and getting punished as charizard is terrible. It's so easy to wrack up % on him once you've got him in the air.

Flareblitz can be hard to dodge, but only under three circumstances.

1. The enemy is trying to land without their double jump.

Flareblitz is amazing for punishing landings. If the enemy has no double jump, and you time it properly they won't be able to avoid it.
The thing is, lag actually makes this harder to do. You have to time it perfectly, or the enemy will land and shield. If that happens. RIP

2. After a missed Tech.

Flare Blitz is great for tech chasing, It covers multiple options at once. But once again, lag actually makes this harder to do, since miss-timing the flare blitz will often send you off stage. Once that happens it's good bye stage control.

3. If the opponent has already commited to something

This is a read. If you know for a fact that the enemy is going to commit to something laggy, like a projectile, blitz will armor though it and hit them.
But there's a pattern to all of this, all of these things need to be timed well in order to work. If you do it just a split second too late, good opponents will shield and punish.

As for the rest of his moves. They're all fairly slow with mediocre priority at best. He's not a difficult character to react to if he's rushing at you. His combos are read-reliant, he has to be on point with his reads or the enemy can often just toss out an attack and outspeed or outprioritize his.

:006:
Just because Flamethrower does not reach 4 times FD does not make it bad in lag. You can still space a little even in extreme heavy lag. And just try gimping with it in lag, it will be unstoppable. You are welcome.

Man I wish R.O.B. had good lag tools. His laser is incredibly slow to recharge and the Gyro has to disappear to get it back again. Also the Gyro can get stolen, and when that happens R.O.B. will be unable to camp effectively. This is especially bad in lag if R.O.B. is battling against an opponent like Charizard whose specials are very spammable in lag, as he can keep on to the Gyro and spam his specials.
 
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Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
All these posts abount not caring I wonder when all the try hards show up I deal with regularly show up.
To be fair, you can not care about what your record actually states, but you can still care about winning in the moment. It is more about accepting your loses upon reflection than sand-bagging while you play.
 

Grizzlpaw

Rawr~ ♪
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,765
Location
Charific Valley
3DS FC
1289-9519-4206
Just because Flamethrower does not reach 4 times FD does not make it bad in lag. You can still space a little even in extreme heavy lag. And just try gimping with it in lag, it will be unstoppable. You are welcome.

Man I wish R.O.B. had good lag tools. His laser is incredibly slow to recharge and the Gyro has to disappear to get it back again. Also the Gyro can get stolen, and when that happens R.O.B. will be unable to camp effectively. This is especially bad in lag if R.O.B. is battling against an opponent like Charizard whose specials are very spammable in lag, as he can keep on to the Gyro and spam his specials.
You didn't read what I put :/

Flamethrower is not bad in lag. It's an amazing move period. However, it does not patch up the remaining problems that Charizard has. Flamethrower gimps work in and out of lag. If you position it right they will either have to recover in a very punishable way, or will fail to reach the ledge at all.

:006:
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
You didn't read what I put :/

Flamethrower is not bad in lag. It's an amazing move period. However, it does not patch up the remaining problems that Charizard has. Flamethrower gimps work in and out of lag. If you position it right they will either have to recover in a very punishable way, or will fail to reach the ledge at all.

:006:
Just switch to Squirtle if you hate projectile campers so much Squirtle is great against them I used PT as secundary so I know.
 

Mizzy Moe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
149
3DS FC
3883-6486-6414
You didn't read what I put :/

Flamethrower is not bad in lag. It's an amazing move period. However, it does not patch up the remaining problems that Charizard has. Flamethrower gimps work in and out of lag. If you position it right they will either have to recover in a very punishable way, or will fail to reach the ledge at all.

:006:

just stop wasting your time he doesnt want to listen or understand so let him believe in his own lil mind that charizard is the undisputed lag king
 

|Czar|

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
22
Hmm... I'll admit, I do care about my For Glory record, and at the same time, I don't. On one hand, I care since it displays the improvement of my gameplay. Virtually any match I come across that involves even the slightest of lag, I leave from the match or just wait until I'm disconnected due to being idle. That way, lag won't significantly affect my record. I don't know if it's just me, but the way I see it, the higher my percentage is, the more motivated I am to climb to the next level. So, I use my record as a way of pushing myself to do better in future matches.

On the other hand, I also don't care about my record since it's, as you would expect, inconsistent. Online will always have some sort of lag anyways, and I've stumbled across a handful of matches where I would execute a specific input, and the lag would unexpectedly appear, making my character perform a completely different move I never intended to do, which almost always costs me the match. Other times, as soon as the match would start, my opponents would, for some reason, just kill themselves and leave, even when the match is lag-free. Such occasions have definitely affected my record to be inconsistent. Nevertheless, at the end of the day, it's only a number that probably nobody cares about, anyway. I suppose it's up to the individual to care about it or not. I mean, it's not like you see people online asking others what their For Glory record is, right?
 

Basherton

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
76
Location
Chicago, Illinois
3DS FC
4725-8585-6958
I play with too many characters that aren't my mains and that I just pick up for fun while playing for glory so I can't care wnough. I have no struggle playing against most players on for glory with my main.
 

abx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
234
Location
Germany
To be fair, you can not care about what your record actually states, but you can still care about winning in the moment. It is more about accepting your loses upon reflection than sand-bagging while you play.
There is also the option to leave at the most convenient times. Yeah, yeah, I know: Sometimes it looks like someone leaves just to protect their stats but in truth they're just busy. My point is it's hard to believe that everyone doesn't care about stats, still pretty much everyone takes much care to stress out how much they don't care.
 

LucarioDude

Not Gray Fox
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
1,142
Location
Australia
I generally don't really care too much about my record. I tend to keep playing the same opponent until they leave or think they've had enough, even if I end up losing quite a bit. I've faced off a person on For Glory for almost 2 whole hours. They won majority of the matches but they were still really close and I still had a fun time.
 
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