Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Kenith]

When it comes to clones...

Impa as a Sheik semi-clone as well as Dark Samus as a Samus semi-clone...though both can easily be more but I'd be happy if either of them make it in...otherwise it depends on who it is...

Although another I'd be happy with (though a highly unlikely scenario) being Midna's true form as a Zelda semi-clone...

Honestly, I would have traded a couple months of wait time for a few semi-clones.

But I know for a fact I wouldn't get my panties in a twist solely for the fact a clone is DLC like many people here. (Come at me.)

I could come at you, but you'd run away before I could catch you.

 

[BluePikmin11]

New Update:

* Alex Kidd:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll394986x1E234543-15

* Cross:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll394991x9e492801-15

* Isabelle:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll394995x79704D26-15

* Klonoa:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll394996x6CE866B5-15

* Louie:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll394998xF9fB4Db6-15

* Tom Nook:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll395000xba19c72e-15

* Neku:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll395006xd7164428-15

* Travis Touchdown:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll395009x74c7C765-15

Go vote!

 

[Oasis Dealer]

To quickly add onto Sami/Andy having Snake's moveset, I have two things to say to it. One, It's lazy to plaster it over another character and call it "new."

Second, and my main problem with it, it gives the impression that Sami/Andy has nothing unique to her/him to the point that she/he needs another character's moveset. I've never played Advance Wars, but I can easily see something new to this character.

 

[Kenith]

If my moveset is any indication, Sami/Andy have plenty of potential as fighters.
Honestly, I'm surprised at least one of them doesn't get the same support as Isaac.

 

[randy2dope]

Lotta Layton talk and with the recent shovel knight fake I got all kinds of hype I need to shake off. Hopfully we get some character news or dlc wave 4 confirmed soon to wet all our insatiable smash THIRST

 

[Aetheri]

Lotta Layton talk and with the recent shovel knight fake I got all kinds of hype I need to shake off. Hopfully we get some character news or dlc wave 4 confirmed soon to wet all our insatiable smash THIRST

Tell me about it, at the very least we could get a Direct soon or something...even if it's general News regarding other Nintendo stuff...(I'm still waiting on news for Zelda U)...although the best recent News was Pokken's Wii U confirmation...

 

[Substitution]

So, in an attempt to mix things up...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_&_Battle:_Card_Hero
What are the chances of this getting representation in Smash? Whether a character or otherwise. Granted it's an obscure Nintendo game only released in Japan, but then again The Mysterious Murasame Castle and For Frog the Bell Tolls got something.

For the record, it's gotten both a sequel and a 3DS VC release (only in JP), and it did get a trophy in Melee:

 

[Senselessbreak]

So, in an attempt to mix things up...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_&_Battle:_Card_Hero
What are the chances of this getting representation in Smash? Whether a character or otherwise. Granted it's an obscure Nintendo game only released in Japan, but then again The Mysterious Murasame Castle and For Frog the Bell Tolls got something.

For the record, it's gotten both a sequel and a 3DS VC release (only in JP), and it did get a trophy in Melee:

I'd say (without knowing much about the character or series) it doesn't immediately appear as if he'd be a good fighter. Characters like Takamaru or Prince Sable are popular because they are already warriors in their games, so people can imagine them as characters much more easily. This character is pretty unknown in the west, and his abilities are just not obvious at first glance.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

So, in an attempt to mix things up...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_&_Battle:_Card_Hero
What are the chances of this getting representation in Smash? Whether a character or otherwise. Granted it's an obscure Nintendo game only released in Japan, but then again The Mysterious Murasame Castle and For Frog the Bell Tolls got something.

For the record, it's gotten both a sequel and a 3DS VC release (only in JP), and it did get a trophy in Melee:

Are you trying to lure me to like this character. NO! OBSCURE RETRO CHARM WON'T GET ME THIS TIME!
His chances are slim imo.

 

[Substitution]

I'd say (without knowing much about the character or series) it doesn't immediately appear as if he'd be a good fighter. Characters like Takamaru or Prince Sable are popular because they are already warriors in their games, so people can imagine them as characters much more easily. This character is pretty unknown in the west, and his abilities are just not obvious at first glance.

Well it doesn't have to be that specific character. In fact he's not the main protagonist: he's just the shopkeeper. This is the main protagonist(s):

Spoiler

The one on the right is Hiro, who I think is the main protagonist of the GBC. The other being what I assume is the protagonist of the sequel names Satoru.

Edit: Found the name.

Also(and implying that the man represented in the trophy would be the rep), Smash and "sensible fighters" haven't always gone hand in hand. Hell, we have a villager from Animal Crossing, a fitness trainer, a 2D stick figure, a dog and a duck, heck even Mario could be considered out of the ordinary.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The thing with giving Snake's moveset to somebody else is that the moveset was made specifically with Snake and Metal Gear Solid in mind. It wouldn't make sense.

The better idea is to bring Snake back, because you know, people like the character himself, and then add an Advance Wars character apart from Snake.

As much as I go on about unique movesets and what not, there is validity to the characters themselves. People LIKE certain characters. If they gave Snake's moveset to some character, that wouldn't go over well.

I still think Snake is one of the best characters to add. Anything people come up with against him boils down to personal bias (which is irrelevant because he's a Smash veteran already, so he's a valid option) or Konami problems. But I don't really know how much the issues matter.

Frankly, Smash is a game that celebrates the characters. Sakurai could easily bring Snake in through a contract with Konami, and honor the character his friend created anyway. Speaking of Snake, on my way home earlier, Calling to the Night started playing off of my iPod. The feels...

By the way, that's Snake...in his appearance in Brawl. He's a Smash vet. That HAS to mean something to people. I feel like people ignore that fact because they simply don't like him. People who don't like him haven't played Metal Gear Solid. If you play the series, THEN you might think differently.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Smash celebrates gaming. Not just Nintendo, but gaming. Why else would Sakurai have allowed Snake in the first place? Snake isn't Super Meat Boy. Sakurai had to have seen value in Snake when he originally planned to add him. Some use the reasoning of "not Nintendo enough" as if Sakurai hadn't considered that. Now we have Ryu.

It's a game that celebrates gaming. Will they openly advertise for their competitors? Probably not. But they included content from a PS3 exclusive game in Brawl in the form of trophies from MGS 4. Not that big of a deal if you ask me.

Eh. Whatever though. I doubt I can change some minds. People will think what they want. It's too bad.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Well it doesn't have to be that specific character. In fact he's not the main protagonist: he's just the shopkeeper. This is the main protagonist(s):

Spoiler

The one on the right is Hiro, who I think is the main protagonist of the GBC. The other being what I assume is the protagonist of the sequel names Satoru.

Edit: Found the name.

Also(and implying that the man represented in the trophy would be the rep), Smash and "sensible fighters" haven't always gone hand in hand. Hell, we have a villager from Animal Crossing, a fitness trainer, a 2D stick figure, a dog and a duck, heck even Mario could be considered out of the ordinary.

Interesting, reminds me of Yugioh

 

[Champ Gold]

The thing with giving Snake's moveset to somebody else is that the moveset was made specifically with Snake and Metal Gear Solid in mind. It wouldn't make sense.

The better idea is to bring Snake back, because you know, people like the character himself, and then add an Advance Wars character apart from Snake.

As much as I go on about unique movesets and what not, there is validity to the characters themselves. People LIKE certain characters. If they gave Snake's moveset to some character, that wouldn't go over well.

I still think Snake is one of the best characters to add. Anything people come up with against him boils down to personal bias (which is irrelevant because he's a Smash veteran already, so he's a valid option) or Konami problems. But I don't really know how much the issues matter.

Frankly, Smash is a game that celebrates the characters. Sakurai could easily bring Snake in through a contract with Konami, and honor the character his friend created anyway. Speaking of Snake, on my way home earlier, Calling to the Night started playing off of my iPod. The feels...

By the way, that's Snake...in his appearance in Brawl. He's a Smash vet. That HAS to mean something to people. I feel like people ignore that fact because they simply don't like them. People who don't like him haven't played Metal Gear Solid. If you play the series, THEN you might think differently.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Smash celebrates gaming. Not just Nintendo, but gaming. Why else would Sakurai have allowed Snake in the first place? Snake isn't Super Meat Boy. Sakurai had to have seen value in Snake when he originally planned to add him. Some use the reasoning of "not Nintendo enough" as if Sakurai hadn't considered that. Now we have Ryu.

It's a game that celebrates gaming. Will they openly advertise for their competitiors? Probably not. But they included content from a PS4 exclusive game in Brawl in the form of trophies from MGS 4. Not that big of a deal if you ask me.

Eh. Whatever though. I doubt I can change some minds. People will think what they want. It's too bad.

Yeah but dude Smash has never been fully a celebration of gaming but moreso of Nintendo and a few guest. It's always been like that.


Smash Bros is Nintendo first and foremost and will stay that way until the end of time. Third Party franchises are most cases lucky due to fan demand (), a favor () and company request ().

I love for Third Parties to get in but I know they really don't need to be there. Smash will still sell regardless because of the big name Nintendo series. Smash celebrates gaming but it celebrates Nintendo gaming and people like you guys forget that. Most third party characters people request don't have the history or close connections with Nintendo and/or that great icon status that only a few franchises hold.

Third Party characters shouldn't get in because of some quota filling residence but what it brought to gaming and to Nintendo in general as well. And MGS hasn't done that since Twin Snakes (Snake Eater 3D if that counts). Atleast Pac-Man and Street Fighter has major millstone s of gamin with Nintendo (Pac-Man's influence on Miyamoto and Street Fighter 2 being 4 highest selling SNES game)

I defend Snake's and return and inclusion because he can fit one of those quotas and was a veteran from a past game and I don't want original movesets cut from the game.

 

[Substitution]

Interesting, reminds me of Yugioh

Actually, that's kinda what I've been thinking of.
I remember Yugi being playable in Jump Ultimate Stars, where he used cards that held various effects for his moveset. They could do something along those lines, only with cards from the games.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yeah but dude Smash has never been fully a celebration of gaming but moreso of Nintendo and a few guest. It's always been like that.


Smash Bros is Nintendo first and foremost and will stay that way until the end of time. Third Party franchises are most cases lucky due to fan demand (), a favor () and company request ().

I love for Third Parties to get in but I know they really don't need to be there. Smash will still sell regardless because of the big name Nintendo series. Smash celebrates gaming but it celebrates Nintendo gaming and people like you guys forget that. Most third party characters people request don't have the history or close connections with Nintendo and/or that great icon status that only a few franchises hold.

Third Party characters shouldn't get in because of some quota filling residence but what it brought to gaming and to Nintendo in general as well. And MGS hasn't done that since Twin Snakes (Snake Eater 3D if that counts). Atleast Pac-Man and Street Fighter has major millstone s of gamin with Nintendo (Pac-Man's influence on Miyamoto and Street Fighter 2 being 4 highest selling SNES game)

I defend Snake's and return and inclusion because he can fit one of those quotas and was a veteran from a past game and I don't want original movesets cut from the game.

If you want to talk about milestones, we can talk about how Hideo Kojima and MGS defined the stealth genre and cinematic gaming experience. It's a big time series.

Smash is obviously a Nintendo first series. But it stopped being just about Nintendo since Snake was first added. None of Sonic, Mega Man, Pac Man or Ryu are Nintendo. The closest one related to Nintendo is Mega Man. Sonic and Pac Man made their names on platforms other than Nintendo. Ryu is arguable. Snake isn't that much different. After all, the requirement is just that they have to appear on a Nintendo console.

Then we have plenty of fan rules we have to deal with. You didn't suggest any (which makes me happy), and I'm glad you support his return.

 

[Champ Gold]

If you want to talk about milestones, we can talk about how Hideo Kojima and MGS defined the stealth genre and cinematic gaming experience. It's a big time series.

Smash is obviously a Nintendo first series. But it stopped being just about Nintendo since Snake was first added. None of Sonic, Mega Man, Pac Man or Ryu are Nintendo. The closest one related to Nintendo is Mega Man. Sonic and Pac Man made their names on platforms other than Nintendo. Ryu is arguable. Snake isn't that much different. After all, the requirement is just that they have to appear on a Nintendo console.

Then we have plenty of fan rules we have to deal with. You didn't suggest any (which makes me happy), and I'm glad you support his return.

Yes he did and yes it does but you didn't get what I was saying

You said "It stopped being about Nintendo's history when they added Snake" but you forget that he was mostly a one time request from Kojima to Sakurai. It wasn't like Nintendo needed or wanted Snake

Also there's my last point, Snake busted the whole thing about being a celebration of Nintendo's history, then we should add more third party characters and focus on those in future games since it's more about gaming than Ninttendo.

I ain't saying focus less on First Party or implying that, I just not fond with the idea that Smash was less about Nintendo when that's a ball-face lie and you know it.

If you want me to be honest, I rather have a Smash game back to being Nintendo exclusive one day. Reason because it's a Nintendo series moreso than anything else and will stay that way. It still celebrates past () Present () and Future (). Third Party characters are what they always been even in other fighting games as well.

GUEST, not the main attraction but guest characters. Hell I'm a major & fan but I sure as hell didn't play or enjoy Smash because they we in the game but because of who was there before. & even

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Something I realized. @ Kenith brought up how Sakurai apparently said 'no realistic knives'. Doesn't Sheik use Kunai with her Usmash?

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Something I realized. @ Kenith brought up how Sakurai apparently said 'no realistic knives'. Doesn't Sheik use Kunai with her Usmash?

Shhh. We don't talk about that.

 

[Deleted member]

Something I realized. @ Kenith brought up how Sakurai apparently said 'no realistic knives'. Doesn't Sheik use Kunai with her Usmash?

Shhh. We don't talk about that.

What in the Hell are you two talking about?

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Something I realized. @ Kenith brought up how Sakurai apparently said 'no realistic knives'. Doesn't Sheik use Kunai with her Usmash?

She does not. :3

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What in the Hell are you two talking about?

Look at Sheik's Usmash in slow motion, she throws a kunai to the floor


Apparently not though according to Timid

 

[Deleted member]

Nope. No kunai.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

What in the Hell are you two talking about?

Stuff.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nope. No kunai.

Could have sworn she threw one back in Brawl...Bleh

 

[JamesDNaux]

I think Snake has more than enough "Nintendo history" by being, y'know, the first third party in history to appear in Smash Bros.

Favor or not, he beat out Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Sonic the bloody Hedgehog (who only got in at the last minute).

He's the reason any of them ever showed up in the first place, does that mean nothing?

 

[MainJPW]

He's the reason any of them ever showed up in the first place, does that mean nothing?

Not in Sonic's case, wasn't he on the original character roster draft for Brawl before Sega temporarily declined?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Not in Sonic's case, wasn't he on the original character roster draft for Brawl before Sega temporarily declined?

Yeah, the difference being Snake was confirmed on the roster since the release of Melee. Sakurai told Kojima that if there were to be another Smash Bros. Snake would be in it.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Not in Sonic's case, wasn't he on the original character roster draft for Brawl before Sega temporarily declined?

Snake was planned from the very start while Sonic literally delayed the game because he was added way late in development due to fan outcry for him caused by Snake being in the game. "Wah, Snake?! Third parties?! That means Sonic can get in!"

Though in Pac-Man's case, it was probably Namco and Miyamoto that were behind his inclusion. I imagine if Brawl never had any third parties and Namco were still making Smash 4, Pac-Man would have been our first third party and then we'd have him to thank for Sonic showing up at the last minute. Then Mega Man would be DLC and neither Ryu or Snake would cross anyone's minds.

 

[Deleted member]

@PushDustIn had discovered that Sonic only got in last minute because Sega initially refused to have him in Brawl.
Sonic was planned on from the beginning by Sakurai.

“Early on, Nintendo asked SEGA if Sonic could be included in the game, but the Haneda company refused. It was only later, when the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl was nearly finished, that SEGA changed its mind. This is why the game’s release was delayed.”

Page 210 from The History of Sonic the Hedgehog.

So contrary to what you may have initially believed, Snake isn't why we had Sonic (and Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Ryu).

 

[Oasis Dealer]

Not in Sonic's case, wasn't he on the original character roster draft for Brawl before Sega temporarily declined?

I believe you are correct! Funny thing is, I believe it was not only Kojima who talked to Sakurai about Snake, but Yuji Naka who talked to Sakurai about Sonic in Melee. However, I could be wrong on that (I know there's a source gaming article on it, I just can't find it at the moment). Funny how they were both requested, though Snake is seen as the only one who got in as a favor (Even then, Sonic was able to get in due to fan demand and Sega changing their mind on Sonic getting into Brawl).

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

@PushDustIn had discovered that Sonic only got in last minute because Sega initially refused to have him in Brawl.
Sonic was planned on from the beginning by Sakurai.

“Early on, Nintendo asked SEGA if Sonic could be included in the game, but the Haneda company refused. It was only later, when the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl was nearly finished, that SEGA changed its mind. This is why the game’s release was delayed.”

Page 210 from The History of Sonic the Hedgehog.

So contrary to what you may have initially believed, Snake isn't why we had Sonic (and Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Ryu).

Depends on how you look at it honestly. You could say that they were both planned from the start so neither did the other any favors. Or you could say if it weren't for Snake's appearance, in which a fan outcry followed, SEGA would have never noticed the extreme amount of appeal for Sonic in Smash. Of course, we will never know. I'm all for either as long as Snake is DLC soon.

 

[JamesDNaux]

@PushDustIn had discovered that Sonic only got in last minute because Sega initially refused to have him in Brawl.
Sonic was planned on from the beginning by Sakurai.

“Early on, Nintendo asked SEGA if Sonic could be included in the game, but the Haneda company refused. It was only later, when the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl was nearly finished, that SEGA changed its mind. This is why the game’s release was delayed.”

Page 210 from The History of Sonic the Hedgehog.

So contrary to what you may have initially believed, Snake isn't why we had Sonic (and Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Ryu).

That's... weird. Why would Sega refuse it and then suddenly turn on their heels?

Though even if he was planned, I doubt they would have halted development and delayed the game if Sonic hadn't been massively requested, and Snake being in Smash definitely got people all over the world shouting for Sonic.


Though if Sega refused at first but then changed their minds, I'm suddenly worried that Konami may have done the opposite now.

 

[Deleted member]

Depends on how you look at it honestly. You could say that they were both planned from the start so neither did the other any favors. Or you could say if it weren't for Snake's appearance, in which a fan outcry followed, SEGA would have never noticed the extreme amount of appeal for Sonic in Smash. Of course, we will never know. I'm all for both as long as Snake is DLC soon

That's implying SEGA changed their mind because of the fan outcry.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Yes he did and yes it does but you didn't get what I was saying

You said "It stopped being about Nintendo's history when they added Snake" but you forget that he was mostly a one time request from Kojima to Sakurai. It wasn't like Nintendo needed or wanted Snake

Also there's my last point, Snake busted the whole thing about being a celebration of Nintendo's history, then we should add more third party characters and focus on those in future games since it's more about gaming than Ninttendo.

I ain't saying focus less on First Party or implying that, I just not fond with the idea that Smash was less about Nintendo when that's a ball-face lie and you know it.

If you want me to be honest, I rather have a Smash game back to being Nintendo exclusive one day. Reason because it's a Nintendo series moreso than anything else and will stay that way. It still celebrates past () Present () and Future (). Third Party characters are what they always been even in other fighting games as well.

GUEST, not the main attraction but guest characters. Hell I'm a major & fan but I sure as hell didn't play or enjoy Smash because they we in the game but because of who was there before. & even

The problem is that I never said it stopped being about Nintendo. That's a huge difference.

It will always be about Nintendo in the majority. It will always be that way. There's also nothing saying that the original plan was to be a one time deal with Kojima. We simply can't know that.

I never said it's less about Nintendo. I said it's about MORE than JUST Nintendo now. If it wasn't there wouldn't be any 3rd parties at all.

Frankly, I don't understand why 3rd parties get a bad reaction from people around here. "BAHH NINTENDO ONLY. IT'S ALL ABOUT NINTENDO". Like, people realize there are other great series out there, right?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

That's implying SEGA changed their mind because of the fan outcry.

Sega is a money loving company just like every other one. More recognition, more money.

Though, you're right, there could be other factors. What others would there be though? Random decision? I don't know, no one does. All we can do is speculate when it comes to corporate operations.

 

[MainJPW]

I believe you are correct! Funny thing is, I believe it was not only Kojima who talked to Sakurai about Snake, but Yuji Naka who talked to Sakurai about Sonic in Melee. However, I could be wrong on that (I know there's a source gaming article on it, I just can't find it at the moment). Funny how they were both requested, though Snake is seen as the only one who got in as a favor (Even then, Sonic was able to get in due to fan demand and Sega changing their mind on Sonic getting into Brawl).

I remember the thing with Sonic being considered for Melee, Yuji Naka confirmed that in an interview, PushDustin also confirmed it:
http://www.sourcegaming.info/?s=Yuji+naka&submit=Search#[pt2]
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/20/dykgmis/#more-1309

Sonic’s creator, Yuji Naka stated “Sonic was planned to be in Melee but the plan fell short due to time constraints.”

 

[JamesDNaux]

What others would there be though? Random decision?

"Sir, we just got word from Nintendo, they want to add Sonic to Super Smash Brothers."

"Hmmm..."

"...Sir?"

"I think I prefer the Olympics."

"What, sir?"

"Tell Nintendo if we can add Mario to our new Olympic game, then they can have our mascot for theirs."

 

[Oasis Dealer]

If anything, I think Sega changing their minds on Sonic was based on fan outcry and also it being a wise business decision. Sonic's popular, and if people were to buy the game partly for what it had (like 3rd parties) then Sega could've done well in that regard. But oh well, we'll never know, and its just speculation.

Question though, how do 3rd parties earn money from sales? Do they earn a bit of the profit from each copy sold, or is it something else?

 

[Deleted member]

That's... weird. Why would Sega refuse it and then suddenly turn on their heels?

Consider that when SEGA changed their minds, it was approximately close to when Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games was being negotiated with Nintendo.
I feel the game's existence and the collaboration may have helped sway them.

Though even if he was planned, I doubt they would have halted development and delayed the game if Sonic hadn't been massively requested, and Snake being in Smash definitely got people all over the world shouting for Sonic.

Sonic still had popularity for Smash prior to Snake's reveal, which was why he would have even been considered in the first place. All Snake did was pour gas on the flame by showing he wasn't just a fanboy's dream. (NOTE: I'm only saying Snake shouldn't be credited for Sonic's or any other guest's addition. He's still significant in his own right to have been the first non-Nintendo character to be in Smash.)

Though if Sega refused at first but then changed their minds, I'm suddenly worried that Konami may have done the opposite now.

Kojima had shown desire for Snake to return prior to Smash 4's release, and Konami had also shown support as a whole even after the controversy regarding Kojima and the company's downfall. So unless you mean "now" as in "very recently they just stopped caring altogether", I don't see how.

 

[LuluTheBean]

So what exactly determines the winner of the Smash Ballot? Most votes, most potential, or just a character that sparks Sakurai's interest?