DK's New recovery

[Returnofthemac]

So, since Dk got that really nice vertical recovery buff I have been wondering if anyone has found new ways to edgeguard with it that were previously either insanely difficult or impossible. What have you guys found works/ doesnt?

 

[Strong Badam]

You can do some edgeguards lower now, and do Up-B edgeguarding from lower as well. His recovery is about the same in terms of potency, since the horizontal was nerfed.

 

[AkashicSword]

I've found that when returning to stage, you can use the new boost of the Up-B to do some interesting things.

For Example: Imagine yourself full double jump diagonally away from Pokemon Stadium 2's ledge, and your opponent is standing on the ledge (Not holding edge) in order to hit you away and seal the deal. I've found I can do the double jump towards ledge, do either UAIr NAir, Bair, or Side Special (which is effective by situation, but guarantees you won't be interrupted in the next step) and the attack will end in time for your newly buffed Up-B to just barely grab the ledge) The side special one is fun, since people don't expect it, and they are left unable to edge guard you when effective.

Also, when recovering from the top left or right of a map, you can throw a Fair to deflect someone chasing you, and have a much better chance of returning safely.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I've found that when returning to stage, you can use the new boost of the Up-B to do some interesting things.

For Example: Imagine yourself full double jump diagonally away from Pokemon Stadium 2's ledge, and your opponent is standing on the ledge (Not holding edge) in order to hit you away and seal the deal. I've found I can do the double jump towards ledge, do either UAIr NAir, Bair, or Side Special (which is effective by situation, but guarantees you won't be interrupted in the next step) and the attack will end in time for your newly buffed Up-B to just barely grab the ledge) The side special one is fun, since people don't expect it, and they are left unable to edge guard you when effective.

Also, when recovering from the top left or right of a map, you can throw a Fair to deflect someone chasing you, and have a much better chance of returning safely.

How on earth is his PM up b better? It looks just as bad vertically.

 

[AkashicSword]

How on earth is his PM up b better? It looks just as bad vertically.

It's not outstanding by any means, but it has a bit more vertical range, and it can grab ledge from a deceptive distance underneath at the end of the move. I've heard more than enough "oohs" and "how the f___?!" since I picked him up in 3.0. The improvement is real.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I think that DK should get a recovery buffs.

It's not outstanding by any means, but it has a bit more vertical range, and it can grab ledge from a deceptive distance underneath at the end of the move. I've heard more than enough "oohs" and "how the f___?!" since I picked him up in 3.0. The improvement is real.

t

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

When i first picked up P:M my first thought was "i hope DK finally has a aerial down+b". Through all the updates and changes in all the patches my wish has been left unsatisfied; this is the chance to give DK a chance to recover when below the ledge. My personal idea for an aerial downb would be similar to diddy kongs up+b but with a big barrel that falls slower and rotates like the barrels on KJ64 in melee automatically without any care as to whether or not the player can actually get the right direction before letting go of the charge on the barrel. He would be able to be hit out of it and the recovery granted by the barrel would be unable to sweet spot the ledge. This would essentially be a very unreliable, easily punishable 2nd recovery move. Honestly if you give DK any kind of aerial down+b i would be very happy
Thank you all for your time taken to read this

 

[lordhelmet]

DK's lagless recovery is broken. How are you supposed to punish this?

 

[BertEast]

DK's lagless recovery is broken. How are you supposed to punish this?

DK can be stopped on stage pretty easily, especially by Ike. For offstage, hit him from above, obviously, space well if you're going from upfront so you don't get caught up in his big ol' Monkey arms. If he goes above, you know enough to just follow him around and hit him back off the stage, or upwards for juggling.

If your character has a meteor, you can always try that.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

DK can be stopped on stage pretty easily, especially by Ike. For offstage, hit him from above, obviously, space well if you're going from upfront so you don't get caught up in his big ol' Monkey arms. If he goes above, you know enough to just follow him around and hit him back off the stage, or upwards for juggling.

If your character has a meteor, you can always try that.

G&W is favorable against DK.

 

[AkashicSword]

Marth still rocks DK when proper spacing is practiced. Dair can punish DK's recovery easily with a good chance of a meteor KO.

 

[Strong Badam]

DK's lagless recovery is broken. How are you supposed to punish this?

this guy

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Its not exactly lagless, though it is pretty unexpectedly fast. If I recall correctly, its got about 7 frames of landing lag, so it is possible to punish it. However because of how long his arms are, I wouldn't exactly challenge it unless you have a fairly meaty move. He still gets bopped off stage by meteors and spikes though, so that's still a thing.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Marth still rocks DK when proper spacing is practiced. Dair can punish DK's recovery easily with a good chance of a meteor KO.

For DK, the forecast is f-air with a chance of meteors!

 

[Returnofthemac]

I despise the Marth matchup. I can never seem to edge guard him properly or convert off of grabs without getting f-aired. Plus the tech chases marth can do to DK are just tough to beat if its a good Marth

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I despise the Marth matchup. I can never seem to edge guard him properly or convert off of grabs without getting f-aired. Plus the tech chases marth can do to DK are just tough to beat if its a good Marth

DK's down tilt is safe against Marth's recovery.

 

[AkashicSword]

I despise the Marth matchup. I can never seem to edge guard him properly or convert off of grabs without getting f-aired. Plus the tech chases marth can do to DK are just tough to beat if its a good Marth

You have to be really sneaky with spacing, draw out his airs, and have immediate counter attacks. For example, let's say Marth is far Upper-right in the air, and you're mid-stage. Jump at Marth like you plan to attack, but draw back and start the wind -up on Fair, draw back to barely dodge the easy to trick Fair, and move back in right as your own Fair launches. Maneuvers of that sort where you, bait attack-> dodge with little margin for error -> immediately punish, are essential to the match up. Don't mindlessly chase, and continue to outspace. Remember, the attacks where Marth completely outranges all of your options is his FSmash, which leaves him open. So space with your longer attacks, bait foolish attacks, punish. Practice makes perfect.

 

[MVP]

I despise the Marth matchup. I can never seem to edge guard him properly or convert off of grabs without getting f-aired. Plus the tech chases marth can do to DK are just tough to beat if its a good Marth

i don't mind the MU that much cause Marth's main weakness is if you're under him he's helpless. Cargo hold instantly puts you under him haha

 

[Satoru Iwata]

>Left unsatisfied
How can this be?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Is it just me or does Jiggly have a hard time edgeguarding DK's up b?

>Left unsatisfied
How can this be?

If you don't dair it then just run off the ledge before he get's there and u-air him. <Stupid idea<, but really, dair is so easy to pull off against DK that he needs a vertical buff, like an aerial down-b.

 

[JRad]

I am a DK/Marth main in both Melee and PM, so I can give you some tips for Marth. With DK's better vertical mobility, he should be fairly easy for you to ledgeguard. You want to full hop from the stage and float out towards him to try to bait the double jump, if he jumps then you jump and hit him with bair/upb. If he doesn't jump you should be able to hit him with the bair anyway. Of course he will get used to this so now you will need to mix stuff up, so just jump off as if you are going to do the same thing but this time immediately double jump to ledge and see how he reacts. If he did an early up or upb's to ledge while you are holding it, drop off and immediately up B using the start up invincibilty frames. Other things to consider when ledge guarding is dtilt if he doesn't sweet spot. As far as neutral game goes, if he is spacing fair then you need to be spacing back airs. You have a lot of options following a back air such as pivot ftilt, dtilt, jab etc. You can even chain bairs together. Just remember that marth is super free to juggle. When you grab him, cargo and then uair until he is around 80. Then cargo full hop fair him off stage or death. When recovering just make sure that you either go super high or wait for the full up b out of dtilt range and abuse the ledge grab range to recover.