DK's matchup's

[StripesOrBars]

I've been playin alot of DK lately(again) and I wanted to make a (another) list of his matchups vs all characaters so DK n00bs can reference this page instead of makin a thread. I'm going to start this thing with my opinions and if someone sees a problem please post. I want difficulty rating, best stages for DK in that matchup, character specific tactics, amd other helpful insights.

Fox
Difficulty: 3.5/5

Best stages: Final Desination, Jungle Japes, Brinstar

DK's Offense
Fox and DK own eachother hard. Fox has the definite upper hand with speed, shine, lasers, and upsash, however DK can be very naughty to the vulpine.

Obviously, DK has his grab, cargo, up throw chain grab from 0 to around 30%. After that anything goes. Most likey, though, you'll wanna juggle Fox with 2 or 3 Uairs. Good luck catching him though.

If Fox is close to the edge you can also cargo upthrow to Bair if he DIs Behind you(torwards the end of the stage obviously) and edge guard.

Another thing is when Fox is over 100%, cargo upthrow to Fair works amazingly well.

And don't forget that when you have Fox in cargo, down throw is extremely effective if thrown off the stage.

Also, Up B out of shield is a nice little KO tactic if the Fox trys to come from behind you(plus DK is invincible on frames 3 through 5).

Platforms can also be DK's friend in this fight. One grab on Fox into an Upthrow on a plat can result in 3 or 4 Uairs. Even a nicely placed Up B works. I've gotten a few Uairs and then finished with an Up B resulting in a nice 50% combo, all because of a quick grab, cargo to upthrow.

Edgeguarding Fox can be both easy and difficult. None of DK's moves come out signifigantly fast, so ledge hogging and careful placements of Bairs and metored Fairs and Dairs are essential(yes Fair is a meteor). A well timed Nair is also a good option at times as is a drop off the stage and Up B into a FireFox to mix things up a bit.

And of course if you're up a stock at a high percentage and the Fox is at low to mid percentage, cargo suicide the little ****er. Be sure to throw him under the stage(DreamLand, Poke, BATTLEFIELD) or away from it(Final D, Yoshi Story, Fountain) or else his looooong FireFox may get him back on the stage. Make sure the throw is a downthrow as Fox will lose a lot more altitude as opposed to a forward or backthrow---- but meh, all 3 throws can be used strategically, just plz don't upthrow cuz it won't work(unless it's into a ceiling and your opponent can't tech). Also, this technique works on 2/3's of the cast in this game.

Fox's Offense

DK hates the shine. Being one of the easiest characters to wavshine, Fox is a constant threat to the ape. And with DK's horrendous shield, Fox can usually pillar his way into a waveshined grab or upsmash. With DK's weight(unless this is PAL) he shouldn't die til after 100% though(verticaly). Also, watch out for shine spikes(which counters DK's cargo suicide) cuz those suck.

Another thing Fox has is Upthrow Uairs. It's essential to know this cuz you will get grabbed about 45% of the match. Fox can usually chain 4 or 5 off the first throw. Smash DI my friend.

Fox also has his laser. DK is HUGE. DK is one of the only characters where double short hop lasers really work. And being that Fox can run circles around DK(it's really not that bad) it's tough to even catch the little **** to go on the offensive.

Fox doesn't really have much when it comes to edgeguarding DK, unless at high percentages. If Fox downsmashs, DK can DI up and more than likely make it back to the stage. Fox can also Bair DK's Up B easily, but that's if DK comes from somewhere other than the ledge or ledge level. Also Fox can shine spike(duh).


Falco
Difficulty: 5/5
Best stages: Battlefield

Shiek
Difficulty: 4.5/5
Best stages: Poke'Stadium

DK's Offense

Shiek owns DK for one reason. Chain grab. I even think she can chain grab him in PAL too(correct me if I'm wrong). Do not stop moving in this match.

Shieks will always charge thier needles right off the bat. Take this time to charge a giant punch. Wait for Shiek to downsmash(which she will do about 20 times a match) and give it to her(a forward smash works too if you have time).

DK's cargoed upthrow Uair chains work nicely on Shiek too(not like on fast fallers though). From a low percentage, you can probably chain 2 to 4 of them on a platfrom stage.

Edgeguarding Shiek is near impossible. Why in the hell would they make her Up B invulnerable?!?!? The best thing thing to do once she's off the stage, is edgehog so she has to reappear on the actual stage(make sure the blast form her Up B doesn't hit u as u come up). Once you know where she's gonna land, punish her. I would grab and get her off the stage again or Dair her to pop her up and then Up B on the ground so she gets sent flying(you can also do it airborne to rack up damage if she goes too high).

(more to come)


Marth
Difficulty: 3.5/5


Peach
Difficulty: 4/5

Captain Falcon
Difficulty: 3.25/5
Best stages: Final Destination(kinda goes both ways), Poke', Fountain, Jungle Japes


IC's
Difficulty: 5/5 (DK's toughest matchup)

Samus
Difficulty: 3/5

Jiggs
Difficulty: 4.5/5

Doc
Difficulty: 4/5

Mario
Difficulty: 2.5/5(even)

Gannondorf
Difficulty: 3/5 if it's Tipman's Gannon 6/5

Luigi
Difficulty: 4/5

Link
Difficulty: 3/5

Roy
Dfficulty: 2/5

Pikachu
Difficulty: 4/5

Zelda

Ness
Difficulty: 3/5

Game and Watch

Yoshi
Difficulty: 3/5

Bowser
Difficulty: 2/5

Kirby
Difficulty: 2.5/5

Pichu

Mew2

 

[King Kong]

Fox should be 3/5, but we've already argued over this. Although I like jungle japes for most matchups, i wouldnt take fox to it. If the fox has any kind of tech skill they can simply waveshine you off the edge then they can shine spike you into the current, which is death for DK.

I'd also put Marth down to a 3/5. We've also argued over this. AOB is the one to talk to about this matchup, apparently he ***** Marths, I do pretty well in this matchup. DK is hard for Marth to kill, and i find Marth relatively easy to kill. I dunno maybe its just me.

The ones I disagree with most are Pikachu and Mario.

Pikachu has some nice combos on DK, and the U-air can give him some cheap kills on DK and thunder can be a problem for DK's horizontal recovery. However DK combos the hell out of Pika, has plenty of kill options and Pika can have a rough time approaching DK thanks to DK's CC game and B-air WOP. I'd say this is one of DK's better matchups personally. Maybe a 2/5

Mario has good combos, but DK performs well vs Mario in a similar way to Bowser. DK's range and superior kill options really hurt Mario, plus DK has a much better time edgeguarding Mario than vica versa. I'd put it as even, maybe slightly in DK's favour.

I like taking Floaty characters to Green Greens. Fasfallers to FD and others to Jungle Japes.

peace out

 

[Diddy Kong]

This thread is a good one. However, you can try to explain a little more.
I'd like to know why C.Falcon is a easier matchup than Pikachu. C.Falcon already has a advantage over DK, it's just slighly. Then I wonder why Pikachu is this hard, since this matchup is hardly ever spoken of.

Also I'd put Fox on a 3/5. This is pretty even actually. This matchup is depening on skill of the player. Still Fox has a advantage, but 3/5 means 60% out of 100% so I think 3/5 would be better.

With the rest I quite agree with. Are you going for having the lowest negative rep? If you don't, I'll + rep you.

 

[StripesOrBars]

I've only played piachu a couple times and ive gotten *****. Maybe its me?

Marth ill change cuz i think marth isnt that bad either but meh.

Fox is soooooo hard to play against all dk has is his up throw combos and its impossible to grab the little ****head.

Mario yes true.

 

[King Kong]

Can we also make this thread a discussion for DK's counter stages? Its not something that gets dicussed very much and i'd appreciate it since DK is my secondary for tournaments.

I'd also put Doc mario down to a 3/5, hes not that much worse than mario.
peace out

 

[Diddy Kong]

I've only played piachu a couple times and ive gotten *****. Maybe its me?

Marth ill change cuz i think marth isnt that bad either but meh.

Fox is soooooo hard to play against all dk has is his up throw combos and its impossible to grab the little ****head.

Mario yes true.

Yeah perhaps it is you? No offence or anything. But I agree with King Kong that Pika has trouble with DK's long reach.

Marth I think, still has an advantage... Atleast, maybe that's just me? My DK vs Marth would be 4/5 anyways.

And yeah Fox IS hard to grab. But you should grab him around 35~40%. Then you can start comboing him. Nairs and even down B (if he doesn't tech) set up for a jump canceled grab. Till then, have fun fighting him...

And because Link doesn't have a rating yet, I'd say he's 4/5, but it's not all that bad. He's easy to juggle and to grab, if you can get past the projo's.

As for counterstage for characters, Battle Field is good vs Falco.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Pikas attacks are faster than DKs.

Also, Doc Pills are waaaaaaay worse than Mario;s fire balls and Doc's Fair have no trouble going through DK's shield.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah but Fox, Falcon and Marth also attack faster then DK... Fox and Marth even attack faster then Pikachu. So that's not really a point. DK isn't exactly a slow character either.

Anyways yeah Doc should be 4/5, if only because of the pills.
I find them very irritating when I fight Docs.

 

[StripesOrBars]

No actually Pikachus attacks come out faster than Marths and Fox. His upsmash is just as fast as fox's and its stronger too. And Fox Falcon and Marth aren't as small as the rat. Plus Pikachu's recovery is like top 5.

 

[Buttcrust]

I'm assuming 3/5 means the fight is even?

Anyway, Fox needs to be higher. You guys say he's not bad, but with all the shines you can't grab him. That means the b-air is about all you have and it's eaisly countered when you know it's coming.

Jiggs isn't that bad at all. I'd personally give it a 3 or 3.5. Shes certainly not a 5. Just use tilts and b-airs to keep her at a distance. Then throw in the punch randomly and you have a kill. She dies so easily against DK.

Also, I think Link should drop down to 3.5 simply because some of the other 4s are much tougher than Link.

And while I've never played a really good Mario/Doc, I don't see why there is such a big difference between their ratings. Sure the pills make Dr. a little harder, but that's about it. And they aren't really that bad. They hurt approach, but that's only a small part of the game.

I'd also put Bowser as a 2.5 or 3. He can hang with DK fairly well, but DK just has too much in his arsenal for Bowser to handle. From what I've seen DK comes out on top more often, but they're always close matches.

As far as level picking:
Battlefield for Luigi. His f-b recovery can put him under the stage so he misses the edge and the platform help out also.

For Peach, Jiggs, and Ganon I'd pick Final D. Platforms help Peach so just don't put them on the stage. Jiggs you really just want a pretty large level so that you can use your range. (Green Greens, Dreamland, etc. Actually, I think I like KK's suggestion of Green Greens better. The walls are closer and a b-throw/air can KO pretty easily there.) Plus a larger stage just makes it that much harder for her to kill you. Ganon I actually think you can beat anywhere, but I just like playing him there. I combo him easier without platforms and it just gives you more room to work with.

 

[King Kong]

I'm assuming 3/5 means the fight is even?

Anyway, Fox needs to be higher. You guys say he's not bad, but with all the shines you can't grab him. That means the b-air is about all you have and it's eaisly countered when you know it's coming.

Jiggs isn't that bad at all. I'd personally give it a 3 or 3.5. Shes certainly not a 5. Just use tilts and b-airs to keep her at a distance. Then throw in the punch randomly and you have a kill. She dies so easily against DK.

Also, I think Link should drop down to 3.5 simply because some of the other 4s are much tougher than Link.

And while I've never played a really good Mario/Doc, I don't see why there is such a big difference between their ratings. Sure the pills make Dr. a little harder, but that's about it. And they aren't really that bad. They hurt approach, but that's only a small part of the game.

I'd also put Bowser as a 2.5 or 3. He can hang with DK fairly well, but DK just has too much in his arsenal for Bowser to handle. From what I've seen DK comes out on top more often, but they're always close matches.

As far as level picking:
Battlefield for Luigi. His f-b recovery can put him under the stage so he misses the edge and the platform help out also.

For Peach, Jiggs, and Ganon I'd pick Final D. Platforms help Peach so just don't put them on the stage. Jiggs you really just want a pretty large level so that you can use your range. (Green Greens, Dreamland, etc. Actually, I think I like KK's suggestion of Green Greens better. The walls are closer and a b-throw/air can KO pretty easily there.) Plus a larger stage just makes it that much harder for her to kill you. Ganon I actually think you can beat anywhere, but I just like playing him there. I combo him easier without platforms and it just gives you more room to work with.

Yeah, bowser is pretty much a 2.5/5. I got plenty of practise vs CAOTICs bowser before he moved to the states and it was always very close.

Link........ hmmmm..... hes not a 4. I'd agree with buttcrust in saying that hes hard, but not as bad as peach.

Speed of attacks means nothing, Pikachu has a REALLY tough time approaching DK since his primary approach is his Sparks followed by a N-air which can be crouch cancelled at low percents or met with an F-tilt, B-air, your own N-air (You can also tilt the sparks) or even a D-tilt. Plus you can combo the hell out of Pika, he shouldnt survive more than two or three grabs per stock. He has nice combos on you but unless he manages to get up close with the U-smash hes gona have a tough time killing you.

Buttcrust have you played Vidjogamers Peach? If so, how did your DK go?

peace out

 

[StripesOrBars]

I'll do some updates tommorrow im too tired guys.

 

[StripesOrBars]

I'm assuming 3/5 means the fight is even?

Anyway, Fox needs to be higher. You guys say he's not bad, but with all the shines you can't grab him. That means the b-air is about all you have and it's eaisly countered when you know it's coming.

Jiggs isn't that bad at all. I'd personally give it a 3 or 3.5. Shes certainly not a 5. Just use tilts and b-airs to keep her at a distance. Then throw in the punch randomly and you have a kill. She dies so easily against DK.

Also, I think Link should drop down to 3.5 simply because some of the other 4s are much tougher than Link.

And while I've never played a really good Mario/Doc, I don't see why there is such a big difference between their ratings. Sure the pills make Dr. a little harder, but that's about it. And they aren't really that bad. They hurt approach, but that's only a small part of the game.

I'd also put Bowser as a 2.5 or 3. He can hang with DK fairly well, but DK just has too much in his arsenal for Bowser to handle. From what I've seen DK comes out on top more often, but they're always close matches.

As far as level picking:
Battlefield for Luigi. His f-b recovery can put him under the stage so he misses the edge and the platform help out also.

For Peach, Jiggs, and Ganon I'd pick Final D. Platforms help Peach so just don't put them on the stage. Jiggs you really just want a pretty large level so that you can use your range. (Green Greens, Dreamland, etc. Actually, I think I like KK's suggestion of Green Greens better. The walls are closer and a b-throw/air can KO pretty easily there.) Plus a larger stage just makes it that much harder for her to kill you. Ganon I actually think you can beat anywhere, but I just like playing him there. I combo him easier without platforms and it just gives you more room to work with.

no 2.5/5 is even 3/5 is 60/100.

I personaly give fox a 4 to a 4.25 but thats only because of the shine and fox's amazing recovery(which is semi easily read but its still an excellent recovery).

Jiggs....ugh, i hate jiggs but dam a 3 or a 3.5? u say bowser should be a 3. theres no way jiggs and bowser are close in the dk matchup bro.

and i think link should be like a 3 or a 3.5 too.

Doc is definitely a 4. His Fair has no regards for DK's shield and the pills set it up perfectly.

I'd personally put bowser at a 1.5 to maybe a 2.25. dk just runs circles around him.

and omg battlefield for luigi is good.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Does n e 1 fight any good Ness's G&W Zelda's Yoshi's Kirby's Pichu's or Mew2's?

**** tripple post...

 

[Dr.Peabody]

Im always a big supported of kirby... but however there was already a rather large discussion of this, and he would be placed about even with dk... 2.5 or 3 i guess

 

[King Kong]

I have a good amount of experience vs Bringerofdeaths Yoshi, and hes one of the top 3 yoshis in the world.

The match is in Yoshis Favour, maybe a 3.5/5. Yoshi with his DJC U-airs can get 60%+ combos on DK and his aerial prowess really hurts DK. DK has some nice stuff in this matchup but Yoshi has more in his favour.

I learned to play smash with NESSBOUNDER so I am pretty good vs Ness. Id call it even personally i think we have had a long debate about DK vs Ness before somewhere.

peace out

 

[Buttcrust]

Yeah, I don't think Jiggs is that good in this match-up but I haven't played any excellent Jigglypuffs. Just decent ones and I think I've only lost once. So that's where I was drawing that from. You guys probably know more about this match-up than I do.

Kirby is pretty even, maybe slightly in DK's favor. I'd say a 2. I play a top level Kirby more often than anyone else so I know the ins and outs of this match-up like the back of my hand. I won't go into them as I'd write for pages, but trust me on this one. Also, I don't think stage has much of an effect on this one. I guess don't pick a stage where Kirby can shark but that's about it. (Sharking is where kirby flies just under or through the bottom of the stage trying to either u-air you or swallow you through it)

I second KK's Yoshi info. I've never played someone to the calibur as bringerofdeath, but I know a pretty good Yoshi. I personally like stages without platform against Yoshi as they can sometimes save him on his recovery. But really I don't think it matters much.

Ness I think is pretty close also, but slightly in Ness's favor... maybe? Ness's f-air and b-air are tough to beat out and the bat can be a pain if you mess up. But Ness dies pretty easily so I'm not too sure. I'd say it's between a 2-3.

G+W isn't that bad of a fight. He has some good grab combos, but other than that he's pretty easy. I'd say a 2 or less. Just avoid the grabs and DK should win. G+W dies to easily. Pick a stage like Green Greens where the sides are close to the stage.

 

[Bass.]

Buttcrust nipped it right on the bud.

I can definitely say that Ness would be a 3/5 in Ness's favor. Everything else I would say you explained perfectly.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Just a quick question. Doodah you said that DK won't die till atleast 100% vs Fox, unless it's PAL. Now I play the PAL version... Is DK lighter in my version than yours?

 

[King Kong]

Just a quick question. Doodah you said that DK won't die till atleast 100% vs Fox, unless it's PAL. Now I play the PAL version... Is DK lighter in my version than yours?

For us lucky ones with the PAL version, some of Fox's kill moves wer powered down (I beleive the U-smash was weakened significantly). Fox is also lighter and has less recovery distance which is cool.

peace out

 

[StripesOrBars]

For us lucky ones with the PAL version, some of Fox's kill moves wer powered down (I beleive the U-smash was weakened significantly). Fox is also lighter and has less recovery distance which is cool.

peace out

Exactly.

I'm going to a tourney tomorrow and I'm gonna play XIF's Zelda alot. So I should get some ideas about how the match up is. I'll post more tomorrow night aroung 3 in the morning(eastern time).

 

[DeathscytheHello]

Yeah, I don't think Jiggs is that good in this match-up but I haven't played any excellent Jigglypuffs. Just decent ones and I think I've only lost once. So that's where I was drawing that from. You guys probably know more about this match-up than I do.

I bet your controller remembers, too. Especially after you threw it to the ground.

Kirby is pretty even, maybe slightly in DK's favor. I'd say a 2. I play a top level Kirby more often than anyone else so I know the ins and outs of this match-up like the back of my hand. I won't go into them as I'd write for pages, but trust me on this one. Also, I don't think stage has much of an effect on this one. I guess don't pick a stage where Kirby can shark but that's about it. (Sharking is where kirby flies just under or through the bottom of the stage trying to either u-air you or swallow you through it)

I second KK's Yoshi info. I've never played someone to the calibur as bringerofdeath, but I know a pretty good Yoshi. I personally like stages without platform against Yoshi as they can sometimes save him on his recovery. But really I don't think it matters much.

Ness I think is pretty close also, but slightly in Ness's favor... maybe? Ness's f-air and b-air are tough to beat out and the bat can be a pain if you mess up. But Ness dies pretty easily so I'm not too sure. I'd say it's between a 2-3.

I'd agree with most of that stuff, except for the Kirby sharking stuff. Don't even worry about it; if the Kirby goes under the level, all you need to do is go onto a platform. He can only do something to you then by coming above the stage again, which basically means that he's no longer sharking. (The answer is so simple, but a lot of people seem to like taking the damage to try to hit the sharking Kirby rather than avoid the damage outright.) Concerning stages for DK, as a Kirby player, I do not enjoy Green Greens against a DK. DK's back-throw is killer there with the close walls, and Kirby doesn't benefit from it at all seeing how he's good at keeping DK off the edge once he gets him off.

Is the ceiling low on Green Greens? I can't remember... but if it is, all the more reason to choose that place against Kirby. He lacks decent vertical kill moves, so DK won't have a problem. Meanwhile, DK's up-air is enough reason to want a low ceiling against light characters.

Yoshi, I haven't played this match as DK enough to really get a good idea.

With Ness... I don't know. I sometimes pull out DK against a Ness... he's OK, but no where near good enough to be a decent fight. However, when he feels like spamming a fair, I just f-tilt. Your smack should hit him, and you'll take 3% damage... maybe not even that. Again, I don't know if that works against good Ness players, but it seems to work fine enough against him.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Sorry I havent updted this in a while.

For some reason I havent been able to sign in for a week.

 

[DrRape]

um i agree with pritty much everything but the iceclimbers DK is one of my best and my friend mains the IC and i win 50% of the time so i would say its more like a 3/5 or 4/5 but you mihgt be right thats just from my experience.

 

[DrRape]

It could just be me but marth is my WORST match up with any of my characters (except samus for sum reason) so maby its just because i cant fight marth but i would have but 4.5/5 but thats just me.

 

[Bass.]

Marth has a huge advantage over DK. Speed, range, edge hogging abilities, as well as recovery abilities are in Marths favor in this match up. I definitely agree with 4-4.5.

The reason why Ness has the advantage over DK is because a good Ness user knows the positioning to attack DK with both his Fair or dash attack to poke at DK where DK can't counter. It's really cheap because of the sparkle at the end of Ness's attacks.

 

[Shadow_I)ragoon]

Yea but what about the IC. My DK rely mostly on grab right now so Im asking myself how could a DK fight the IC since they are 2 and when you grab nana popo hit you and vice versa

 

[StripesOrBars]

ok for some reason it wont let me edit the 1st post.... wtf?

 

[King Kong]

ahhh well, dont worry about it Stripey mate, make a new thread then and post the stuff youv'e already got on there.

i have the instant edgehog almost down perfect now, it feels so sweet to pull it off in a real match... just thought i'd share that (TECH SKILL!!)

peace out

 

[Buttcrust]

i have the instant edgehog almost down perfect now, it feels so sweet to pull it off in a real match... just thought i'd share that (TECH SKILL!!)

peace out

I <3 King Kong. He's just so amazing.

 

[Bass.]

What is the "instant edgehog" technique you're refering to?

 

[StripesOrBars]

I think Tipman made it up.

 

[King Kong]

Yes, indeed i am amazing

Yeah, Tipman made it up ages ago and then everyone kind of forgot about it then for some reason i tried doing it again a couple days ago and i strted getting fairly easily something to do with releasing the L-trigger really quickly.

Has anyone else tried the instant Up-B to the edge on Jungle japes or Green greens yet? It looks really cool and DK has like a Tornado animation spinning around him for a couple seconds afterwards.

peace out

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

I dont recall you ever using it?

 

[King Kong]

I dont recall you ever using it?

We havnt played in about 3 weeks

peace out

 

[Shadow_I)ragoon]

Yea but what about the IC. My DK rely mostly on grab right now so Im asking myself how could a DK fight the IC since they are 2 and when you grab nana popo hit you and vice versa

Asked a question here could somone help me???

 

[King Kong]

Asked a question here could somone help me???

Dk vs IC's is really hard, but there are a few things you can remember to help out:

1: Forget your normal grab/combo game, it wont work
2: The down B works wonders for splitting up the IC's, and it good horitonal range makes it a useful tool in this mathup
3: To kill Nana, D-air into Up-B at mid/high percents will split them and send them far apart, then kill Nana.
4: ALways have the punch charged so that if you do get Nana seperated from Popo you can kill her quickly.

thats all i can think of right now

peace out

 

[Buttcrust]

If you do grab the IC while there are two, instantly throw back. This will split them up also.

 

[Shadow_I)ragoon]

Got it hope aI can play a good IC soon to try this out just by reading it I say to myself it should work good. Thx

Edit: Posted right after buttcrust because i was answering to King kong but since I rely mostly on grab with my dk I will take your advice and use it.

 

[mood4food77]

up b works wonders on them, down b will be hard to pull off, you can always try dtilt on them since it's quick, but i'm not used to fighting ICs with anyone, i was just thinking of what moves could be good desynchers