DK vs ICs

[Dragon_Hawk]

...

I'm serious.

I have a MM with the best DK in Canada (PKMvodka, who's incidentally one of EC's top 4 players) and while I don't really care about losing it too much, I would at least like to win a game. It's between ICs and DK on the neutrals.

I play against a DK off and on with my ICs so I have a rough idea on what to do in the matchup, but I'm looking for input.

From what I can tell, DK's most spammy move is his bair and his combos come from cargo u-throw, which is also his kill move on the ICs (into giant punch or uair depending on what DI and percentage dictates). He doesn't have priority below him, so getting underneath him seems like a good thing.

So, besides his giant punch, bair and grabs, what should I be looking out for vs DK. I already know that he can't really combo ICs out of grab unless Nana is dead but what else works. vs my usual DK practice I waveshield camp a lot and use some ice blocks, sort of like vs Ganon only without the fear of Nana being insta-deathed by Fair. I also notice DD into blizzard outranges most of his crap and spacing bair with DD into a grab or wavegrab seems to work okay, but what else works. I also use Bair, it seems to outrange his Bair (or trade, I'm not sure).

What, specifically, should I be looking for in my grabs. I usually go for D-throw U-smash into Uairs, but is there something that works better that isn't wobbles (or jab-cancel infinite).

 

[TyrantWolf]

Don't forget that he placed 9th on OC3

Spoiler

canadian pride

 

[Binx]

Your bair should be able to hit his bair, I think if you actually aimed for his foot he would get hit and you would be safe, I would just keep my distance and focus on isolated hits, I also think you can chain throw him pretty relaibly, not sure which one though.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Thank you, Binx. Sounds like a plan (referring to the Bair spacing). And I've been getting positive results on D-throw D-smash CG off and on testing vs various DIs so I'll try that and if he has some DI that I have overlooked then I'll revert to plan A (d-throw u-smash into u-air chain).

Isolated hits is also probably a good idea... knowing PKM he'll probably know how to combo **** me so distance is a good thing. And ICs hit harder anyways. Bairs, F-smashes and DD grabs will probably be my focus, since a grab is deadly and the other two get him off the stage.

Anyone else with ideas?

 

[Wobbles]

It seems like having Nana blizzard would be effective, since he won't really have a way of going through it and if you nick him you can get grabs, dash attacks, or up-airs (if he double jumps).

A wavedash-jab approach would be pretty solid... I don't think DK really has a strong crouch cancel game, and if he tries to CC into a tilt or smash you could bring your shield up. Maybe somebody can verify that?

If he wants to camp, let him. You can just fire ice-blocks, but approaching his SHFFL'd b-airs won't be very effective. If you're playing a platform level, he'll probably try and get you to approach while he's on one so he can drop through with b-airs. Don't let him, and just stay away unless you can get immediately underneath him. It's a similar trick that any player with a far-ranging aerial uses if they're on the defensive.

But you probably shouldn't listen to me, since I placed lower than him at OC3 :D

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

Hmmm. That Blizzard thing sounds really good and no, DK really doesn't have a strong CC game. I'll definitely try to apply that and, yeah, camping Ice Blocks is probably a better idea than rushing in trying to space him perfectly.

 

[choknater]

Watch out for dtilt. I don't know if PKMVodka uses it a lot, but Bum does, and that sh*t is bananas.

Grab combos will destroy him, your grab game is superior to his, so grab as often as you can. He doesn't have the grab-avoiding abilities of fox/marth/peach/falcon/etc. so as long as you stay on him with smashes and grab combos you should do fine. DK has a lot of gimping abilities, plus that giant punch, so do your best to stay on guard.

Wobbles is right, WD jab sounds like a very strong approach.

PKM has a d*mn good reputation with his DK, so I wish you the best of luck.

 

[cemo]

I've only played PKM's DK once, and it was a while ago. When's this MM?

 

[Nintendude]

I've played against Phish-it's DK a lot and I don't really find the matchup hard at all. I just spam wavejabs which end up setting up for pretty much anything, especially grabs. I also occasionally use a desynched ice shot or blizzard. Just don't rush in and feel free to spam ice shots if DK camps.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

I've only played PKM's DK once, and it was a while ago. When's this MM?

The MM is at Starfurry (this saturday).

also, choknator thank you for your support (and advice). Yeah, I know PKM's DK has a crazy reputation but I would like to get one for myself. Only way to do that is to get better... so yeah. Hence why I challenged him.

From the sounds of everyone in the thread, I should:

1) camp him when he camps
2) avoid Nana-gimps and reckless gameplay (and, if possible, the edge when he's in control)
3) watch for d-tilt
4) wavejab to grab/smash
5) stick onto him because he's fat and doesn't have the same evasive abilities of fox and whatnot

And the Blizzard suggestion of Wobbles, which sounds sexy. Sadly, my desynch game is a bit... off... at the moment. I recently got a new controller because my old one finally conceded and died and because of it I can't do the instant-Blizzard (when you pivot jump Blizzard) with Nana. Timing issue.

 

[MEXICAN]

Wow, i can't believe there's actually a thread on advice on how to fight DK. lol. But anyways, as a dk user, i would advise you don't just sit back and camp with ice blocks when dk camps, because i love it when ic players do that. I just charge my giant punch, go over and use it, and go back to camping. I don't know that PKM would use this strategy, but i would. The giant punch will almost always hit at least nana, if not both of them, even when you're shielding. And as far as not being able to avoid the grab, i would just b air, run away, b air, run away, etc. Its pretty difficult to grab dk when he does that, especially if he has the giant punch charged because he can just throw that out if he gets in a tight spot.