DJC C stick, or A

[ForgottenLabRat]

So I have been trying to learn how to play Lucas tech on my own for a while with not looking up tutorials, but I am having troubles with Mag DJC aerial. (Like Mag DJC to fair with pressure and so on). Right now I have been using C stick to do this,I can do it about 40% of the time, which is way to inaccurate for a real fight. Should I be using the joy stick and use A instead, or is this just way harder than I anticipated.

 

[Kipcom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z3EJYfHTro

Tap jump + C stick for DJC is the most optimal form of DJC, but there are situations where using Y/X + A can be benefical as well. Just practice it more.

 

[ilysm]

^Agreed with Kipcom, to whom you should pretty much always listen. The good thing about tap jump is that not only does it speed up the process; it also gives you some highly beneficial directional control in the air. It can make things a bit safer on shield, shift momentum for mixups, or extend combos better. I know when I personally DJC, I have tap jump on and my input for, say, a DJC fair fading backward, facing the left side of the stage, looks like this:

-> ->
(X can be used to jump as well obviously)

For mag into DJC aerial, it took me a while to find a system that worked for me. I found that using Y or X for the second jump made me go higher than I liked, for some reason. So if I wanted to do the same DJC fair backward, but out of magnet, I'd use:

-> + -> ->

This would be my using my right thumb to tap Y for an aerial magnet, then left thumb on the control stick, right thumb to press B. Then my left thumb taps upward on the control stick, and my right thumb moves downward to quickly flick the C-stick.

It's all down to taste, really. It's like how some people prefer X to jump and some people prefer Y. Grind it out for a while and find out what lets you do it the quickest, but also the most consistently. That's probably the most important thing to work on when practicing; be consistent. You don't want to leave matches down to that chance, obviously.

 

[D e l t a]

Reasons for missed inputs / rising aerials:

Make sure that when using a jump button *not* tap jump, you are pressing it and immediately releasing (similar to short hops in Melee). If you hold jump, your character will perform a rising aerial.

Account for hitlag: if you input a move before the hitlag of magnet is finished, your aerial / jump will simply not register in-game. I've had a few instances where trying to do magnet -> aerial and instead my character would air dodge out of magnet. Slow down your timings, this isn't 3.0 where hitlag was reminiscent of a spacie's shine.

Remember: tap jump is a 4 frame jump buffer, but the game only counts it as a single jump input for 1 frame. When inputting jump normally with X or Y (or a modified control scheme if you have done so), the game registers your input only on that frame.
If you are too early, your jump will not come out. If you are too late, you could miss the instant aerial when hitting an opponent, or potentially get punished if used on shield.
It's better to try and input the jump slightly later rather than attempt to be frame and accidentally miss an input.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Reasons for missed inputs / rising aerials:

Make sure that when using a jump button *not* tap jump, you are pressing it and immediately releasing (similar to short hops in Melee). If you hold jump, your character will perform a rising aerial.

Account for hitlag: if you input a move before the hitlag of magnet is finished, your aerial / jump will simply not register in-game. I've had a few instances where trying to do magnet -> aerial and instead my character would air dodge out of magnet. Slow down your timings, this isn't 3.0 where hitlag was reminiscent of a spacie's shine.

Remember: tap jump is a 4 frame jump buffer, but the game only counts it as a single jump input for 1 frame. When inputting jump normally with X or Y (or a modified control scheme if you have done so), the game registers your input only on that frame.
If you are too early, your jump will not come out. If you are too late, you could miss the instant aerial when hitting an opponent, or potentially get punished if used on shield.
It's better to try and input the jump slightly later rather than attempt to be frame and accidentally miss an input.

Thanks for the info, I already have a good handle on DJC mechanics but it's nice to know they are reassured. I will need to practice on a CPU because I think that the hitlag is more than I remember.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

^Agreed with Kipcom, to whom you should pretty much always listen. The good thing about tap jump is that not only does it speed up the process; it also gives you some highly beneficial directional control in the air. It can make things a bit safer on shield, shift momentum for mixups, or extend combos better. I know when I personally DJC, I have tap jump on and my input for, say, a DJC fair fading backward, facing the left side of the stage, looks like this:

-> ->
(X can be used to jump as well obviously)

For mag into DJC aerial, it took me a while to find a system that worked for me. I found that using Y or X for the second jump made me go higher than I liked, for some reason. So if I wanted to do the same DJC fair backward, but out of magnet, I'd use:

-> + -> ->

This would be my using my right thumb to tap Y for an aerial magnet, then left thumb on the control stick, right thumb to press B. Then my left thumb taps upward on the control stick, and my right thumb moves downward to quickly flick the C-stick.

It's all down to taste, really. It's like how some people prefer X to jump and some people prefer Y. Grind it out for a while and find out what lets you do it the quickest, but also the most consistently. That's probably the most important thing to work on when practicing; be consistent. You don't want to leave matches down to that chance, obviously.

Thank you so much, I'll try this method.

 

[D e l t a]

Happy to help! Honestly, 80% of my practice and experience aside from watching videos, came from training in the lab against CPUs. I'm not saying it's truly optimal and you will never be the best by ONLY playing CPUs, but I've gotten an amazing grasp on my combo game and even created a few custom combos, all from hours of practice on CPUs & testing different DI.

Perfect practice makes a perfect person. I practice smart and understand when certain things do and don't work. At the very least, a CPU will allow you to test hitlag and other combos.

They're also emotionless which means they will never do stupid things purely because they got mad or upset. This is nice when I need to test certain approaches or counter-approaches. They'll keep doing the same thing over and over again.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Very true, but when you're in a regular match, the only thing that you need to work on is the mental part of the game instead worrying about the execution of the plan as well.

 

[D e l t a]

If your execution is perfect in practice, there's little to worry about in-game. Then again I have few tourney nerves so what do I know? Lol

Real talk, I had little time to play 3 ml tha before TBH4, practiced less than a week before of tech, wasn't confident, and I messed up. Practiced the last 2 months solidly with tech, got out of pools and into PM singles bracket at Shuffle VII and held my own against m2k

You might get nerves and mess up (Tetra vs Ripple), but if you practice enough, tech skill will rarely get messed up.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

If your execution is perfect in practice, there's little to worry about in-game. Then again I have few tourney nerves so what do I know? Lol

Real talk, I had little time to play 3 ml tha before TBH4, practiced less than a week before of tech, wasn't confident, and I messed up. Practiced the last 2 months solidly with tech, got out of pools and into PM singles bracket at Shuffle VII and held my own against m2k

You might get nerves and mess up (Tetra vs Ripple), but if you practice enough, tech skill will rarely get messed up.

My execution is nowhere near perfect. I can almost consistently waveshine as fox, but mag fair is a bit beyond me at the moment. The nice thing is, that in my opinion Lucas is the most technical/ button intensive character in the game. Meaning that if I can get Lucas down, I shouldn't have trouble with tech/speed of other characters.

 

[D e l t a]

I'd agree Lucas is by far the most technical. Yoshi / Ness are a little slower type of technical. Some like Spacies only require consistent button presses like SH lasers, rather than heavy tech skill (excluding some shine stuff). [T]Link, peach, etc have AGT item tosses.

After a few months, tech is really easy and 2nd nature. You'll eventually start to do DJC PKF and mag pressure without thinking too much. The only thing you'll have to worry about is your opponent's OoS options. The better you consistently do stuff in practice, the less you'll have to worry about in tourney.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

I'd agree Lucas is by far the most technical. Yoshi / Ness are a little slower type of technical. Some like Spacies only require consistent button presses like SH lasers, rather than heavy tech skill (excluding some shine stuff). [T]Link, peach, etc have AGT item tosses.

After a few months, tech is really easy and 2nd nature. You'll eventually start to do DJC PKF and mag pressure without thinking too much. The only thing you'll have to worry about is your opponent's OoS options. The better you consistently do stuff in practice, the less you'll have to worry about in tourney.

Very true, and thanks for the support.