Discussion: How much does Sheik's existence affect the metagame?

[LovinMitts]

I've seen claims that Sheik single-handedly makes very many characters un-viable just by her ability to chaingrab mid-weights from 0 to death, with many situations ending with the chaingrab leading into a kill move such as a tipper up smash or fair. I want to know if this is true, or if she simply contributes to the fact that those characters aren't viable, but isn't the leading cause.

The only real stastical proof that seems to back this up for me is

1. The fact that she isn't able to chaingrab any of the top tiers, maybe suggesting that along with their great tools and options, being immune to Sheik's down throw chaingrab assists in getting them that high up on the tier list.

2. On the PAL tier list, Sheik drops two spaces. I mean, this is expected. Being able to 0-death half of the cast off of a grab is a pretty big deal. Of course losing it is gonna drop you a couple places. This is only here to show that it was a pretty big part of her viability.

Anyways, discuss. I put this here to see what people think.

 

[Sleepy Driz]

It's a significant component, but not the leading cause. Just look at a PAL tier list compared to NTSC tier list and you'll see that the good characters are still good and the bad characters are still bad. For the characters that Sheik can chaingrab, she still has an extremely favorable match up even without chaingrabbing. Low tier characters have worse frame data, are slower, have poor options in the neutral/punish game, etc and are bad independent of the chain grab. Characters like Bowser, Pichu, Game & Watch, Link, etc still get worked silly by other top tiers like Fox anyway.

 

[タオー]

Regardless of whether Sheik can or cannot chaingrab parts of the cast, she can reaction tech chase pretty much everyone. While it's not guaranteed like a chain grab, she's still able to use it to similar effect; with that being said, I don't think that one tactic alone, or either of those together is enough to make characters obsolete. It's more so the characters own failings that result in the imbalance.

There are however many people putting in work to their respective lower tier mains, and a big part of the discussion is how to deal with these tactics. For example, for Falcon's (not to compare Falcon to lower tiers, but he's the character I'm most familiar with), Sheik and Falco have received a lot of attention for development as they can both shut down Falcon very hard; but that does not mean that he can't win in these match ups. As we have developed new tech and understanding of the game mechanics, Falco's lasers and Sheik's tech chase have become more and more manageable. Not to say they still don't beat a lot of Falcon's options, but Falcon's today can anticipate certain strategies and find counter plays to deal with them.

The level of punishment that top players can capitalize off of from a single opening has greatly changed much of the meta, making patience and defense necessary skills to develop if you hope to compete at a high level. Because of this, winning in neutral is much more important, or rather, not losing the neutral.

I feel that over the coming years we're going to start seeing more and more leaps from lower tier characters, but I doubt it will be anything drastic, like say moving from low to top, or even low to high. I think we can expect characters to slowly climb their way into the mid tier light, and maybe some mid tiers will make their way up higher as well. The more I play this game, the more I realize just how much is happening in any one single moment, both within the engine and within the competitor's mind. Sorry I got a bit off topic, but it's hard not to marvel at this game.

 

[Laudandus]

Sheik chain grabs :

Roy - Does randomly okay against Fox/Falco if they play badly and don't camp the top platform. But Roy's worst 5 matchups are Luigi/Samus/Peach/IC's/Yoshi, so I don't think Sheik herself is drastically reducing his viability except in that she is not Fox or Falco (and honestly he sucks vs those characters too lol).

Sheik - Sure Sheik invalidates Sheik

Ganondorf - Sheik is probably Ganondorf's worst matchup, but he sucks vs every character if they really understand how he works. He can chain throw Sheik, too, she just should win neutral 100% of the time - similar to how Fox and Falco win against him, but punishes from both sides are stronger. Sure, maybe she makes Ganondorf worse.

Pikachu - Goes until like 35, and Axe says if you mix up DI basically no one can get it except sometimes M2K

Yoshi - Goes until 28, I don't think it is very relevant

Link - Sheik ****s up Link's **** horribly sorry Link

Bowser/Ness/G&W/Pichu - Not sure but these characters suck balls vs everyone


Really Sheik's chain grab doesn't have much of an effect on anything at all. The main thing is that she can dthrow -> fair or dthrow->uair a lot of characters who in other matchups like to shield camp at high percents because Fox/Falco/Marth don't have guaranteed kills out of grab - characters like Peach, Samus, Jiggs, Doc, Luigi, and Mario. I have a hard time believing that any of those characters suffer especially badly in the matchup with her compared to other top tiers, though - Peach's worst matchup is Marth or Fox, Jiggs' is Fox, Doc's is Peach or Fox, Luigi's is Marth, and Mario's is probably Peach.

The main effects Sheik has on characters imo are:
-Fox, Puff, Icies, Doc, Peach, Mario get better
-Samus, Marth, Pikachu, Luigi, Ganondorf, Links, G&W get worse
-Yoshi, Falcon, DK, Falco stay about the same
-Everyone else is so bad that they just don't even slightly matter

 

[Jackson]

I agree with Laudandus, it really bothers me how people seem to think that Sheik death chaingrabs "half of the cast". Last time I checked her only extensive CGs were on herself, Ganon, and Bowser. Not exactly super relevant.

 

[Klemes]

More than the chaingrab, it's the fact that shiek shuts down and doesn't even let bad characters play the game, and all that without even trying. So okay trash tiers are free for spacies marth etc. as well, but against them they could sometime survive forever, get wonky combos, get gimps, mostly thanks to poor (to non-existant) MU knowledge. VS Shiek even that doesn't work : she needles, grabs, walls out, edgeguards for free all mid/low tiers without breaking a sweat or any knowledge of these poor characters. And there is very little she can miss or get punished for against them, so even less oportunities for them to get a shot.
Alltogether it looks like she doesn't let bad characters exist in a competitive environement, even if she's not the one who made them bad in the first place.

And that's not very fun. She's like the fun police when you think about it.