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[Discussion] 2.0 Why is Link considered much better in Smash-4 I believe he's worse than in Brawl.

N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
3,123
Live footage of what? Me playing Link? I got some from wifi years ago but that's it. Change differences? You gotta either trust people actually playing him in Smash 4 vs others. Like real live footage? A lot of the changes you even admitted but decided to downplay a lot.

You laughed off a 50% difference in KO power on dash attack, that's a huge difference. That's like nerfed Fox Usmash from Brawl to Smash 4, that's a huge change in how you consider a move like that. Killing that much easier, plus no DIing out of his Usmash is a pretty damn big deal for Link. Since his KO power actually stands out a lot better.

For the record I played Brawl for 6 years before I played Smash 4, so don't even bother playing that card with saying I'm ganging up on a "Brawler" or something.

Of course he was changed, not everyone will be happy with everything. Hell I'm not totally happy with Lucario changes but I still love him, same with Peach.

Yes he can't quickdraw, or bomb slide or DACUS. That doesn't change the large changes he got that are much much much better for him overall at this point.

I'm not even sure what you are addressing at this point, do you want me to make a video comparing the frame data, knockback, KO power, movement and the like? You either are acknowledging these are correct and hand waving them away for no real reason or just flat out ignoring them because you have a clear favoritism for Brawl Link.
Well, I didn't laugh, I just wrote 'meh' meaning okay but needs more. Exactly stuff doesn't work with all of us, I admire you having that admiration and all but people like me, don't. No, I mean Smash-4 matches with Link that clearly show he's better is what I mean. I've received enough physics from that, now give me evidence with live matches. And sure why not throw in a few Brawl matches and wow I'm actually surprised you mentioned, Bomb Sliding.

No no, I don't mean gang up like that, I mean Brawl players are pretty much all gone especially Link, and there are these new generation and old generation of players that support it more which is understandable, no more instant edge guards and silly stuff I get that. But you aren't going to change my mind with just Physics and such, show live video 1vs1 evidence proof. So far, I've watched Kirin-blaze lose, no Link videos yet with Izaw, some Brewz Link main (spelled wrong my apologies) and that's pretty much it.

Oh, and a pretty nice Smash-4 Link combo video and oh right a 1:40 Link demonstration of Link string combos and such and they looked pretty okay tbh.

If you have anything private, time to show is now, or whenever you like. I understand your points, now understand ours.

This doesn't mean end the discussion no, you can discuss matches and such. No need for just facts need action now. I hope that makes sense. Thanks.
 
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Vyrnx

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
639
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KY/NC
Gosh, the OP is just so whiny and flamy. Not even making a real argument/dismisses any real argument with responses like, "juzt noh."
 

N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
3,123
Gosh, the OP is just so whiny and flamy. Not even making a real argument/dismisses any real argument with responses like, "juzt noh."
Hmm, exactly how? I read what they all read, now like every argument there needs a video of some sort to back up proof to show he's better in Smash-4 than Brawl.

It's like I could tell a person I could do all these flashy stuff (and I can). I could write every technique in existence to show 'proof' but if I don't show it then no one will believe me (except the players that fought me know).

I told you, I see he looks better on paper but that's not enough show me 'videos' so far no Links have won anything.

Scizor lost to Fallen and in that area that's there best Link and he lost, hmm. Also the Smash-4 Link players are playing Link EXACTLY like in Brawl, hmm, seems they don't know how to play the new improved Link to the Smash-4 amazing form, right?

I'm curious how Izaw will play with him since the Zair isn't the same at all in, Brawl.

Well, so far paper wise he looks better, but in combat, no. Am I surprised? No. Why? Because you can show all the stuff he can do but in a match I see none of this, it's just words.

And I'm not 'op' though King Funk wrote to me that I was a while back, meh. My name is, COH. Thanks.
 
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8bit.Trotz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
33
Guys, I've been maining link since 64, I've played countless matches and am still going strong.

I think the answer here is actually pretty simple. On paper, link has in fact been buffed. That's not debatable. But IMO there are way too many characters in SSB4 that now have more tools that expose his glaring weaknesses. Yes he's been buffed, but so has most of the cast.

I've said it before on these forums, he's ace at racking up damage, but has very few reliable KO moves that don't leave him exposed. The best I've found are is forward tilt, and the occasional Dsmash.

Spin attack has crap power. Forward smash is extremely slow and whiffs on the second hit more often than not, Usmash can be deadly, but is extremely punishable, and dash attack? Dear god I keep hearing about its increased power and knock back , which is a given, but any advanced player sees it coming a mile away.... It's much MUCH too slow predictable and unreliable.

His aerial game is much improved. But again dealing damage isn't the issue with link, reliable kill moves is.
So you can buff all aspects of his game, sure, but with very few reliable KO options, it's all for nothing.

Then there's the match ups.... Most of the speedier characters in this game are absolute nightmares for Link.... That's what it comes down to.

Sure he's buffed on paper, but in comparison to other fighters, it's relative.

My 2
 

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
I think part of CoH's huge problems (After playing him) are that some of Link's really cool bomb dropping tricks are literally obliterated since using z to drop a bomb forces one to also shoot the zair. Some dair stuff is also now almost worthless (putting a dair in front of Falco won't scare anyone if it's not the meteor).

Having played him, I see where he's coming from, but I thinks some of Link's key buffs means that even if he doesn't have some of the tricks he could do in Brawl, he'll end up higher on the tier list because a god-awful recovery won't force him to the bottom.

I think he's net buffed, but for very technical players who put a lot into Brawl Link (not many, but they're definitely there), parts of Smash 4 Link will just be extremely unsatisfying.

Guys, I've been maining link since 64, I've played countless matches and am still going strong.

I think the answer here is actually pretty simple. On paper, link has in fact been buffed. That's not debatable. But IMO there are way too many characters in SSB4 that now have more tools that expose his glaring weaknesses. Yes he's been buffed, but so has most of the cast.

I've said it before on these forums, he's ace at racking up damage, but has very few reliable KO moves that don't leave him exposed. The best I've found are is forward tilt, and the occasional Dsmash.

Spin attack has crap power. Forward smash is extremely slow and whiffs on the second hit more often than not, Usmash can be deadly, but is extremely punishable, and dash attack? Dear god I keep hearing about its increased power and knock back , which is a given, but any advanced player sees it coming a mile away.... It's much MUCH too slow predictable and unreliable.

His aerial game is much improved. But again dealing damage isn't the issue with link, reliable kill moves is.
So you can buff all aspects of his game, sure, but with very few reliable KO options, it's all for nothing.

Then there's the match ups.... Most of the speedier characters in this game are absolute nightmares for Link.... That's what it comes down to.

Sure he's buffed on paper, but in comparison to other fighters, it's relative.

My 2
Spin attack is much improved and is definitely a decent KO move if you get them over ~120% (not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but that's actually about where it would usually KO in Melee). Dair is a meteor for going offstage with, and as you noted, dsmash can be good. I think uair has potential, but I swear the thing stales like crazy after just one use (reminds me of Snake's utilt to be honest).

I find dash attack easiest to land by using bombs and the rang and rushing to try to dash attack a landing where they airdodged. It can also be used to great effect against offstage characters that don't actually sweetspot (Mac and Shulk come to mind), and spin attack is perfectly fine at knocking others off to set this up. I think it hits low enough that it can hit a character who dropped off and regrabbed and has no invincibility, so that may be worth looking at as well.

That said, setting up dash attack is still very tricky, but easier on some (for what it's worth, you CAN dash attack a Villager if you're very fast when you see them shoot the Lloid - the hitbox on Lloid doesn't activate for over 50 frames). I think Link's dash attack has potential, but I dunno if anyone's gonna find some cool combo for it or if the move will ultimately be like Link's bow in Melee - with some uses, but they are few, far between, and can possibly be replaced with other options to similar effect, such that its use becomes extremely uncommon.
 

N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
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What 8Bit wrote was right on; apparently someone else has to write the same step I took but In a more biases view. Can't help it, it urks me. Mhm, but honestly he looks exactly the same minus nerf-ed Zair, better Dash attack and meteor Dair. Everything else looks exactly or if not the same, nothing really changed. And his Bombs are worse for sure, the safe drop option is not really a better idea in my opinion but meh I'm only one here.

Yes, you Brawled me Thor and you know without a doubt that I easily impressed without showing too much of my game-play and such. Heck I'll even write you thought Link was viable after Brawling me and I'll even go farther and write I'm the best you ever Brawled. Btw, don't mention me because they can see you and mock. I don't know what I'm doing and such. Clearly I don't beating Falco and Pikachu who are a nightmare of Link. But you noticed how technical and how I had all Ats I needed. Whenever I'm in trouble I just use this Advanced tech and done I'm fine. It's nice you understand now and the "I'm bad" part is over. Lastly remember that it's always best to be unique in your actions. Carry on gentlemen.
 
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MrKandy

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I personally believe Link got better. I feel as if he got a buff from Brawl into Smash4. I haven't used Brawl link as much as I should have, but I still got a feel of his gameplay. There are some issues, however (Which were already stated). Nonetheless, Link is cool at the end of the day.
 
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N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
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Quite fascinating show out of nowhere; I've never seen you here before, you must be new to the site. Welcome then, hmm, so you believe that huh. Well you aren't the first and you certainly wont be the last, but I know why you feel that way. Now the answer I could revival; however, that would cause some unknown inhabitants to reappear due to my answer.

So I will be vague with you; name me some Links you admire/feel that would show Smash-4 Link's superiority, buffers move-sets, and overall revolution. I just want to understand your perceptive of view that's all. That is true Link will always be Link and I will always respect Link but the category he is involved in no but Link in general then yes. Thanks.
 
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N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣

不自然な不道徳な中空デミ神〜
Joined
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Messages
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One year later no results just talk and assumption, my final decision still stands that Brawl Link is superior than Smash-4 Link. Thanks.
 
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TegamiBachi25

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
18
nah smash 4 link is the best link i've ever played out of all of the games
Don't try to talk to him dude. This guy will bend back all the way to his ass just to prove his point and plug his ears. He doesn't care or ignores what is being said about smash 4 link and blindingly suck on brawl link's ****. At any case, he'll just insult you too for just saying what you believe. He already done that to the other people here lol
 
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