Difficult matchups?

[Sonnet]

Anyone that can abuse projectiles, basically.

Yeah, those matchups seem to be tough. Usually, though, those who abuse projectiles usually use them in a pattern, or at a certain time. Once you start to get their patterns down, you can weave through whatever they're throwing at you and punish.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yeah, those matchups seem to be tough. Usually, though, those who abuse projectiles usually use them in a pattern, or at a certain time. Once you start to get their patterns down, you can weave through whatever they're throwing at you and punish.

They're the only match-ups where I feel that Jr. is a big and clunky character.

Thanks for the tip! I hope it'll help.

 

[Sonnet]

They're the only match-ups where I feel that Jr. is a big and clunky character.

Thanks for the tip! I hope it'll help.

No problem!

It's probably also worth mentioning that, while you're trying to get these patterns down, your shield is your absolute best friend. Their projectiles will never provide enough pressure to break it, and if they decide to charge, you can punish with just about anything (short hop nair or fair seem to do the trick for me, though your tilts will probably work just as well).

 

[LwYz.Ph.]

ROB, Sonic, Fox and Sheik are the ones I'm having trouble with right now, and I think Diddy isn't even that hard lol (is still a bad matchup for Bjr tho).

ROB can keep you at a distance with his projectiles, tilts and grabs. Recovering high can be met with a good laser or gyro throw and recovering low can be a potential gimp or spike.

Sonic is just too fast for Junior to do anything offensive effectively and grabs seem nearly immpossible in this matchup.

For Fox and Sheik, they are also too fast for Junior as well and they can combo the hell out of him, grabbing is hard as well.

This is based on my experience playing offline against good players in my region.
I think ROB is more my problem rather than the character (at first I thought Villager was hard as hell but I learned the matchup by now), learning patterns doesn't seem to work if the ROB is good and always mixup things.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

I think anyone that has those guaranteed throw combos to air-attack strings provide the most difficult time for me (Ness, Diddy, Luigi, ROB, etc.) because most of my opponents tend to abuse the heck out of shields and grabs, and that throws me off a lot at the beginning of a match. Something I need to heavily work on.

 

[The_ToolBag]

I would have to say that:
* Ness
* Rosalina
* Fox
* ZSS
* Diddy
* Villager

Are probably the worst match-ups

 

[Sonnet]

I would have to say that:
* Ness
* Rosalina
* Mario
* Fox

Are probably the worst match-ups

But certain match-ups are advantages for BJ, such as:
* Captain Falcon
* Meta Knight
* Bowser
* DK

Captain Falcon as an easier matchup? I've struggled with a few Falcon's in the past- his speed can be hard to deal with sometimes. What am I missing?

 

[Conn1496]

To be honest, it seems to change for everyone. I don't find Ness or Rosalina really difficult, whereas a good Meta Knight gives me serious problems.

-and how has no-one even mentioned Toon Link?

 

[Sonnet]

To be honest, it seems to change for everyone. I don't find Ness or Rosalina really difficult, whereas a good Meta Knight gives me serious problems.

-and how has no-one even mentioned Toon Link?

The first two Toon Links I played against I ended up beating- they were friends of a guy I know and were apparently really good, and neither of them had a clue how I did it. To me, anyone who spams projectiles is bound to use them predictably, so its all about getting their patterns down and only approaching when you can punish.

 

[Conn1496]

The first two Toon Links I played against I ended up beating- they were friends of a guy I know and were apparently really good, and neither of them had a clue how I did it. To me, anyone who spams projectiles is bound to use them predictably, so its all about getting their patterns down and only approaching when you can punish.

Ehh, it's the fact they can contest your stage control that I don't like. The good Toon Links I've been against have contested any strong approaches I've had well, and can keep better control because of the 'rang and arrows.

I do luck out from time to time, but it's usually just dropping projectiles on their head. xD

 

[Sonnet]

Ehh, it's the fact they can contest your stage control that I don't like. The good Toon Links I've been against have contested any strong approaches I've had well, and can keep better control because of the 'rang and arrows.

I do luck out from time to time, but it's usually just dropping projectiles on their head. xD

If theyre giving you that difficult of a time, drop mechakoopas whenever you can. If he wants to throw a 'rang, you have time to approach. If he winds up for an arrow, the MK will hit him almost guarenteed. If he jumps over it and tries to fight you close up, play smart by dodging and punishing. If I'm not mistaken, most of his aerials outrange Bowjows, which would make dodging and waiting for his end lag the best option.

 

[Conn1496]

If theyre giving you that difficult of a time, drop mechakoopas whenever you can. If he wants to throw a 'rang, you have time to approach. If he winds up for an arrow, the MK will hit him almost guarenteed. If he jumps over it and tries to fight you close up, play smart by dodging and punishing. If I'm not mistaken, most of his aerials outrange Bowjows, which would make dodging and waiting for his end lag the best option.

Oh, I do all of those things. It's just that a good Toon Link will go as far as to counter these strategies too. It's a tough situation. Like I say, a good canonball hit tends to solve it, but that's unreliable...

Might have to see if I've improved since I last went up a good TL or anything... Might do much better now.

 

[Sonnet]

Oh, I do all of those things. It's just that a good Toon Link will go as far as to counter these strategies too. It's a tough situation. Like I say, a good canonball hit tends to solve it, but that's unreliable...

Might have to see if I've improved since I last went up a good TL or anything... Might do much better now.

Huh. Maybe I should get some footage of some of our games so I can break it down a bit further. Maybe they're not as good as I was told they were

 

[Conn1496]

Huh. Maybe I should get some footage of some of our games so I can break it down a bit further. Maybe they're not as good as I was told they were

To be honest, I have no trouble with TL as any other character, and the Koops are my main, so I'm almost certain that it's a matchup problem. My backups are Bowser and Ganondorf too, so it's not like they're any better on the MU either, but I dunno, it just seems incredibly hard to beat Toon Link as the Koops.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

When I face a Toon Link, I find it's quite easy to just jump over his constant arrows/boomerangs and fall into him with a dair. Using the last hit of it to send him flying a bit leads to follow-ups.

 

[LwYz.Ph.]

To be honest, I have no trouble with TL as any other character, and the Koops are my main, so I'm almost certain that it's a matchup problem. My backups are Bowser and Ganondorf too, so it's not like they're any better on the MU either, but I dunno, it just seems incredibly hard to beat Toon Link as the Koops.

Bjr. is so heavy for TL, even when you are at like 130% an he is at 20%, the match can somewhat be even. Most likely in that situation the TL would start fishing for a kill and in order to do that he must stop throwings projectiles and getting in, so that is the time when you need to read if he's going for a smash attack or a grab (for that strong Bthrow, which Bjr. can survive at very hihg percents with good DI). A missed grab or smash attack is when you need to punish real hard, apply a lot of pressure and since is most likely that you will always will be at a higher percent you also have the rage in your favor and TL is a light character, so he can die very early with any of Juniors smash attack.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

I feel ROB is one of my more worse matchups of the ones I listed because he can juggle Bowjow so easily, and reflect both his cannonball and mechakoopa super easy and safe with his side-special that lasts forever and also attacks as well. Doesn't help that he usually has a guaranteed dthrow to uair at just about any percent. I gotta work on the matchup big time.

 

[guedes the brawler]

The first two Toon Links I played against I ended up beating- they were friends of a guy I know and were apparently really good, and neither of them had a clue how I did it. To me, anyone who spams projectiles is bound to use them predictably, so its all about getting their patterns down and only approaching when you can punish.

i dunno, their boomerang covers aerial approaches and lingers to stop punishing and the bow/bomb makes up for what the boomerang doesn't

if the toon link knows what he is doing they surely beat jr. they can camp him, and are faster. it's lamost like shiek, excpet with less speed and more disjointing.

 

[guedes the brawler]

shiek is pretty disgusting. nothing i can do is really safe. ugh, now i think i was right and that jr on-foot wiht the paintbrush would've been better. that thing probably wouldn't pack as much power meaning they would have to mkae him faster than he is.

 

[Sonnet]

shiek is pretty disgusting. nothing i can do is really safe. ugh, now i think i was right and that jr on-foot wiht the paintbrush would've been better. that thing probably wouldn't pack as much power meaning they would have to mkae him faster than he is.

I actually haven't had any trouble with Shiek. She's not too hard to deal with if you can just space yourself and avoid getting grabbed.

Also, this is NOT the place to continue whining about Jr. being on foot. We need to discuss matchups in terms of what we have, not on what we want.

 

[warionumbah2]

But certain match-ups are advantages for BJ, such as:
* Captain Falcon
* Meta Knight
* Bowser
* DK

lol u wot m8.

 

[xXx_360Lucas420_xXx]

Villager and Marth/Lucina are very difficult matchups, atleast for me, there moves go way faster than any of Bowser Jr.s, its just difficult.

villager is free and i'll tell you why.
he has no resource to stop your clown kart pressure other than a wild lloid (which is easily punishable)
get him in the air and combo him to death, dead

Shorthop Turnips

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Sheik isn't a huge deal for me. Our fair, both retreating and advancing, as long as it's spaced properly, is a huge detriment to her. Her fall speed + weight also make specific low % combos easier than they should be. She can occasionally string 5 or 6 fairs together on BJr, but a well placed bair evens things out.

The biggest issues vs Sheik are:
1) being aware that she can easily bouncing fish whenever you drop a mechakoopa, even if she's at the opposite side of fd
2) Be careful with how you react once your cart hits shield, since bair oos is insanely potent
3) The weak hit of bair ALWAYS does too little KB to ensure a cart retrieval after up b. Careful about those gimps.

Other than that if you are the better player you've got the tools to win it.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Sheik isn't a huge deal for me. Our fair, both retreating and advancing, as long as it's spaced properly, is a huge detriment to her. Her fall speed + weight also make specific low % combos easier than they should be. She can occasionally string 5 or 6 fairs together on BJr, but a well placed bair evens things out.

The biggest issues vs Sheik are:
1) being aware that she can easily bouncing fish whenever you drop a mechakoopa, even if she's at the opposite side of fd
2) Be careful with how you react once your cart hits shield, since bair oos is insanely potent
3) The weak hit of bair ALWAYS does too little KB to ensure a cart retrieval after up b. Careful about those gimps.

Other than that if you are the better player you've got the tools to win it.

Hm. This is useful to know. Do you mind if I post this in the Sheik matchup thread I created?
I figure that it's better to have a bunch of match up threads that can be linked to by one complete match up thread rather than this thread where we bounce back and forth between all the characters. This is why I've started making separate match up threads for each character.

 

[Super ninja panda]

I'm in the same boat in that I absolutely cannot beat Rosalina. She's the one character that I lose to almost 100% of the time. But I think Rosalina in general is a hard matchup because of how differently you have to play it. Anyone have tips for fighting her?

I find the rosa machup really easy i'am always in her face and when I side-b she panics and shield and then I can get rid of luma and when luma is gone she's predictable ,she rolls she airdoges and I can make a lot of reads .
also I pick up my MK wait for her down b and punish accordingly.