Diddy Nerf 1.06 Analysis/Discussion (Why hasn't this thread been made yet?)

[Teran]

Uthrow uair can kill some characters under 100% because it sends them so close to the ceiling.

Here's the thing, I'm still not entirely sure how guaranteed it is, since although technically it registers as a true combo, I have a feeling you may be able to airdodge out of hitstun.

BUT it also may be that you can connect guaranteed with strict timing. If not though, it leads to a 50% kill chance, where you either bait the airdodge into an inescapable uair, or they anticipate that and try to jump out, but if you go for the instant uair they die.

This is on Battlefield/Smashville btw, forget Town and City rofl.

Also uthrow fair does 18%, not too shabby.

 

[p1ay6ack]

you have to kill at high percentages now? welcome to the low tier club. diddy is still good, and i've seen some get to quarter, semi finals in tournament yesterday. but ive seen some diddys fall to old habits pre-patch. it does suck as a diddy player, but old habits made them get punished and some even lost the game cuz of old habits. i feel like this patch just makes diddy change up his playstyle a bit, cuz i mean spaming f air like a driedel with no lag was pretty unfair and it was safe.

 

[kesterstudios]

zero says he's still maining diddy kong and he thinks diddy is still the best character in the game. just pointing that out

Edit: whoops, zero actually said diddy kong is HIS best character and he's not the best character in the game anymore.

 

[kesterstudios]

ignore this post. I don't know why smashboards put the same comment on twice

 

[InBOUNDHD]

Diddy mains need to get better at aggressive plucks in general and weave it into the throws and z-drops before bananas really get crazy.

I agree. Maybe more reverse banana plucks? I don't know, but let's wait a couple more weeks for the meta to develop, so we know where we stand and how to improve and adapt our gameplan to the new meta. For now, it would be very helpful if we could have more research on the upthrow to upair kill percent ranges for every characters, since as of now it is Diddy`s most guaranteed and reliable kill setup.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Ah yes, my man Diddy still powerful as ever. So long as his grab game is intact and his aerials remain decent, Diddy will always be top tier.

 

[W.A.C.]

Played a bunch of games tonight. As much as I hate his forward smash and down throw nerf, holy **** do I hate his forward air nerf. That was massive overkill. I wasn't able to kill a Shulk player tonight on Duck Hunt with forward air until he was over 200%. Two hundred ****ing percent near the goddamn ledge. The up air and forward smash nerfs suck a lot, but his forward air nerf might cause me to drop him at some point. I feel like I mostly have to rely on ground based attacks to get kills at reasonable percentages now. So goddamn dumb. Also, while his side B kick doesn't do as much damage as it used to, did this affect knockback as well? I'm just trying to figure out how the hell I can get kills at percentages that aren't stupidly high.

 

[Conti]

Ok so i went to a Local tourny today and did alright but could of done alot better. But its perfectly fine, lost to people i know i can beat, just gotta catch back up in the metagame because of these nerfs [got 2nd outta 9 in teams (Lost to Tweek the best bowser jr and my crewmate), 7/25 in singles (lost to things i struggled to fight when diddy was op lmao Villager and Falcon) -.-]
But the info im gathering is mindbreaking, Tweek showed me in a friendly that he foundout, U-Throw is more broken then i thought. I wanna go in tomorrow and check it out. But U-throw to Fair might be the new-haa (hoo-haa), :3 Does more % then if u Dthrow>Uaired and the way it hits u can do some crazy followups. Gotta test it out, I remembered later on in the tourny game3 vs the falcon and got it off like 3 times in a row racked up to like 60sometn percent. It seems legit and might be a really good option or mixup instead of Dthrow to Uair. Tweek said its guareenteed at low percents and some characters mid percents. I really wanna do like a skype call or stream or both of Testing out these things, because I feel like Diddy might be even better then we thought guys.
Oh random thing, Apparently DThrow/Uthrow to Uair to custom up B apparently might be a thing because of uairs reduced knockback. I forget what % the guy was saying but that might be another thing needed to be tested. Im not a fan of this up b but its good to know for mirror purposes and if u guys opt to use it.
I also need to test where Uthrow to Uair works because im confused lol. Any1 tryin to help? :3 i need a lab partner

I agree. Maybe more reverse banana plucks? I don't know, but let's wait a couple more weeks for the meta to develop, so we know where we stand and how to improve and adapt our gameplan to the new meta. For now, it would be very helpful if we could have more research on the upthrow to upair kill percent ranges for every characters, since as of now it is Diddy`s most guaranteed and reliable kill setup.

I'm constantly doing banana plucks, reverse ones and normals depending on scenario you gotta constantly create a flow with the banana, people need to start instant throwing, i need to personally start z dropping [its not as great in this version of smash], JCT Down is very very viable now since it leads to Fsmash and its a clean mixup. Also do popgun cancles and mix up the cancles with item tosses with grab button, theres so much he can do... Wavebounce DownB Reverse out of Side B, and much much more, I'm working on alot of this stuff too, Diddy has alot of amazing stuff.

 

[W.A.C.]

His up throw up air his only good aerial killing option? His versatility and air game was a huge reason I chose to make him my #1 main in this game. Outside of that one setup, it sounds like he's now all about air damage and ground kills. That is nowhere near as fun.

 

[Conti]

Honestly yeah and its not even reliable he is all about his ground control, air combos, and SmashK.O.s and gimps like the good old days :3

 

[W.A.C.]

*sighs*

They should've left his foward air move alone. The fact I might drop my second favorite video game character of all time because of one nerf is beyond irritating with all the time I've put into that character. I have put so much time and work into him, and now it all feels like a massive waste of my time.

Edit-

Did they leave his side special's knockback alone or was that nerfed as well?

 

[Conti]

I'm almost positive it was nerfed but have not been able to test. and ofc, CT skipped SideB in their video on accident -.-
So we gotta test it. And i was right, Something got changed to USmash [the way it connects and sends is changed, knockback might be nerfed i am almost positive] and it needs to be thoroughly tested, CT Video confirmed this.

But don't give up, if You truely love diddy kong, and are not a 'fraud' that picked him because he was considered the best, You will adapt the true ways of Diddy and do great :D, he's still amazing honestly. As a Diddy Main from Brawl/P:M, He really was absurdly broken in this game and the nerfs had to happen, i do agree F-air was the only nerf i didn't think was necessary but i think they won't really hurt us this bad ever again. Diddy got the most hardcore nerf out of any character in all the patches.

 

[W.A.C.]

But don't give up, if You truely love diddy kong, and are not a 'fraud' that picked him because he was considered a best, You will adapt the true ways of Diddy and do great :D

I don't like this logic. He became my #1 main a week after the game came out because his play style resonated with me the most. Little did I know he would eventually become the best and most hated character in the game thanks to massive nerfs to other top tiers. I've gotten a lot of **** for using this character, but didn't care because I loved playing as him so much. He was so versatile and had a super fun air game. His air game, grab game, and campiness fully complimented my very campy play style. But now his grab combos are nowhere near as much fun, but certainly not to the extent where it would influence my decision to drop him. His camp game still remains but his air game is nowhere near as much fun as it used to be because you can no longer get kills in the air at reasonable percentages. Also, the fact I might switch my primary focus to a character who is universally viewed as worse than Diddy Kong should be enough proof that I'm no "fraud" who only picked him because he was amazing.

 

[InBOUNDHD]

Well, if you need another kill setup, dtilt to rar bair is a good option. Kills earlier than dtilt fair at like around 110-140. And looks flashy :D

 

[Conti]

I don't like this logic. He became my #1 main a week after the game came out because his play style resonated with me the most. Little did I know he would eventually become the best and most hated character in the game thanks to massive nerfs to other top tiers. I've gotten a lot of **** for using this character, but didn't care because I loved playing as him so much. He was so versatile and had a super fun air game. His air game, grab game, and campiness fully complimented my very campy play style. But now his grab combos are nowhere near as much fun, but certainly not to the extent where it would influence my decision to drop him. His camp game still remains but his air game is nowhere near as much fun as it used to be because you can no longer get kills in the air at reasonable percentages. Also, the fact I might switch my primary focus to a character who is universally viewed as worse than Diddy Kong should be enough proof that I'm no "fraud" who only picked him because he was amazing.

I love the logic :D and I feel ya dude, The Diddy struggle, Just do you dude :]
Luckily for me my local scene encouraged me to go Diddy [Going to outside Tournys were lame tho, everyone was so hateful, it made me not even wanna play this game honestly] Originally i wasn't because he became bandwagon and i was Maining him in P:M

Well, if you need another kill setup, dtilt to rar bair is a good option. Kills earlier than dtilt fair at like around 110-140. And looks flashy :D

Wow how did i not think of that, Good find, Definitely a good alternative option, i would rar off stage for kills but i didn't think of that. Dtilt to RAR Bair just sounds like it replaces the old setup nicely, Do you think its a slightly slower option then old Dtilt Fair [can they DI/react out of it?]?

 

[InBOUNDHD]

also dtilt to upsmash is another kill option

 

[W.A.C.]

Diddy's back air isn't that strong and he just seems way to reliant on the ground for kills now. Man, I hate Sakarai and Nintendo so much. Diddy went from being the best aerial killer in the game to one of the characters with the worst kill power for his aerials, which changes how he's played completely.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Diddy's back air isn't that strong and he just seems way to reliant on the ground for kills now. Man, I hate Sakarai and Nintendo so much. Diddy went from being the best aerial killer in the game to one of the characters with the worst kill power for his aerials, which changes how he's played completely.

I hate to say it but it was necessary and for the best. There is absolutely no reason why a character who is great at advantage, disadvantage and especially neutral like Diddy should have early kill setups as well. Pre patch Diddy had no real flaws whatsoever. He actually plays very much like he did in Brawl now. If you stick with the character and really learn banana setups you will realize he doesn't need the killing power to succeed because of how non-linear and dominating his neutral game can be.

 

[W.A.C.]

They should've left his forward air alone at least. That was the most unnecessary nerf of all his nerfs.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

They should've left his forward air alone at least. That was the most unnecessary nerf of all his nerfs.

In combination with all the other changes...yeah. That one was at least slightly excessive. But the move still gave way too much reward with close to zero risk. A 3 frame ranged disjoint which can be repeatedly SH auto canceled very easily should never been as powerful as it was. Although they probably took too much away from it; it should have slightly more killing power than it does now seeing as they also took away knockback on most everything else. But what's done is done, and fair did need to be addressed in some way.

I've been saying this a lot lately lol but seriously, there is no need to panic or drop Diddy. He still has all the speed, range and safety on his aerials that he always did. I'm hard pressed to believe that almost every other character wouldn't gladly trade either their fair or uair for Diddy's if they could, even with no knockback.

 

[W.A.C.]

I'm hard pressed to believe that almost every other character wouldn't gladly trade either their fair or uair for Diddy's if they could, even with no knockback.

Yeah, Mewtwo would be so much better if they replaced his fair with Diddy's fair!

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Yeah, Mewtwo would be so much better if they replaced his fair with Diddy's fair!

Don't have Mewtwo yet but I'm sensing some sarcasm lol. But from what I've gathered about the character if Mewtwo had Diddy's 3 frame jesus hitbox uair it would greatly patch up his biggest weakness which is the inability to break combos at close range disadvantage. Mewtwo's nair is like frame 7 and teleport is like frame 16.

 

[W.A.C.]

Mewtwo's forward air hits hard and it's fast.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They should've left his forward air alone at least. That was the most unnecessary nerf of all his nerfs.

I do agree with this, and am not happy with it at all... Diddy plays like Brawl Diddy now, but without the awesomely strong Brawl F Air, which was basically untouched, untill now. Yes, it sucks the move isn't that strong any more, but it's still useful. And I think I'll be able to live with it, because F Smash still knocks people away like crazy. And am also learning to use D Smash more often like in Brawl.

 

[W.A.C.]

Was his forward air stronger in Brawl? I didn't really play Brawl much, so I don't really have good fundamentals of any of the characters. I didn't start maining him until Project M.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Was his forward air stronger in Brawl? I didn't really play Brawl much, so I don't really have good fundamentals of any of the characters. I didn't start maining him until Project M.

It was stronger than it is now but not as strong as it was. It was harder to land because it wasn't as safe when used closer to the ground or out of a SH though. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a disjoint and it may have had just slightly less range?

How's utilt for kills? It won't kill like f-smash or d-smash but it may become an option before bair.

Also with customs on rocketbarrel attack is a risky yet brutal kill option. You will destroy people early if you can bait an airdodge, which is easier to do because of Diddy's uair. I'm actually shocked at the power this has because I thought all of Diddy's customs were bad. It will make your recovery worse when you have to recover low though. And if you miss when going for kills onstage you'll probably get hit, even if the hitbox is better. So use it sparingly.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

Went to a tourney yesterday. I quit during winner's finals. I'm not a sore loser. I've lost to these players in tournies before but not being able to kill until 200% is a stupid.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

It was stronger than it is now but not as strong as it was. It was harder to land because it wasn't as safe when used closer to the ground or out of a SH though. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a disjoint and it may have had just slightly less range?

How's utilt for kills? It won't kill like f-smash or d-smash but it may become an option before bair.

Also with customs on rocketbarrel attack is a risky yet brutal kill option. You will destroy people early if you can bait an airdodge, which is easier to do because of Diddy's uair. I'm actually shocked at the power this has because I thought all of Diddy's customs were bad. It will make your recovery worse when you have to recover low though. And if you miss when going for kills onstage you'll probably get hit, even if the hitbox is better. So use it sparingly.

U-tilt kills but beyond vertical range it doesn't have much going for it.

 

[W.A.C.]

Went to a tourney yesterday. I quit during winner's finals. I'm not a sore loser. I've lost to these players in tournies before but not being able to kill until 200% is a stupid.

Yeah, it's super dumb. During a friendlies match ZeRo did with a Ganondorf player, he wasn't able to kill him with fair until Ganondorf was over 200% off stage. Also obnoxious is that to get any aerial kills at all with Diddy Kong anymore at non-ridiculous percentages, you pretty have to use a stage with a low blast zone or use up throw up air. His amazing versatility is just gone. If the original 3DS version had the same character balancing as the current Wii U version, I probably would've never gotten a Wii U or pick up this game competitively. So much for a happy medium between Melee and Brawl.

Edit-

I have a lot of respect for Jtails, but his perspective in terms of tier lists can be horribly inaccurate. About a month ago, he said on stream that he viewed Meta Knight and Falco as the worst characters in the game. While Falco is probably low tier, there is no way Meta Knight is one of the worst characters in the game. He has a lot of true combos (though some are very difficult to pull off), one of the best up specials in the game, multiple jumps, disjointed hitboxes, good gimping options, etc. I feel it's way too early to truly know where Diddy Kong now stands on the tier list, but who the hell is possibly better than him besides maybe Mii Fighter and Shiek?

Considering how none of the super notable Diddy Kong mains out there view Diddy Kong as a top 5 character anymore (besides ZeRo who lost a round a Little Mac player today), it's become very apparent that Diddy Kong was hit harder by these nerfs far more than a lot of us expected. I still feel it's way too early to know what currently are the bad matchups for the new Diddy Kong, but I no longer view him as a top 5 character.

 

[Jtails]

I have a lot of respect for Jtails, but his perspective in terms of tier lists can be horribly inaccurate. About a month ago, he said on stream that he viewed Meta Knight and Falco as the worst characters in the game. While Falco is probably low tier, there is no way Meta Knight is one of the worst characters in the game. He has a lot of true combos (though some are very difficult to pull off), one of the best up specials in the game, multiple jumps, disjointed hitboxes, good gimping options, etc. I feel it's way too early to truly know where Diddy Kong now stands on the tier list, but who the hell is possibly better than him besides maybe Mii Fighter and Shiek?

Sonic, Rosalina, Fox,

I don't even think Mii figher is better than Diddy. and yeah Metaknight is horrible, you can ask most top players.

Granted, I was going off of patch notes, After watching Zero play at sandstorm I think Diddy is still top 5, but not top 3. I haven't gotten my hands on the character since the patch because of work and school. So I've been going off what I'm hearing/seeing. and since Sheik and sonic barely got any nerfs, and their match up's with Diddy were pretty much even already. I'd say that now they are even and/or Diddy slightly loses.

I have a perspective of the tier list that not many other people have because others don't understand match ups in a certain way. If people understood how to fight against mii brawler, they wouldn't lose to him. But since no one does, everyone loses. Which creates the illusion that he's top 3 or whatever else. I do think Jigglypuff, Samus, Ganon are some of the worst characters in the game, but Falco and MK in my opinion are bottom 10. It's still too early to tell anything but yeah I just give my opinion for those who ask based on what I can objectively see in match ups, options characters have, and from personal experience. I live in one of the most diverse regions for characters and skilled players NY/NJ, so I'm fine with forming my own opinions even if people disagree with them. As I will always say haha it's totally fine to disagree with me. I encourage it actually because then I can maybe see things I haven't noticed before. I do however have a very good understanding of the games and it's characters, I don't lose to gimmicks or strange character match ups. I gave my word with the disclaimer that I haven't really used diddy very much lol so people like to instantly ask me things then run off with my word like it's law. And my opinions change as well, because I'm open minded.

P.S. Cool that we both have eyes as avatars.

 

[Conti]

Diddy is still Top5 Imo, Sandstorm was a really really good example this weekend honestly. [ @ W.A.C. You use ZeRo as an example but he won the event pretty solidly]
All the other diddys outside of ZeRo just were not adapted to his changes and generally lost their games and switched to their actual mains/secondaries and got more progress [like mvd and a few others]. ZeRo pretty much did everything we were talking to make diddy work with his nerfs about AND MORE, I actually wanna analyze his gameplays i feel like there were a few new Diddy things in general he was pulling off alot. He Did JCT Banana throw forward>Foxtrot>Studderstep Fsmash a few times which is a sick setup imo especially that we really need Fsmash Setups, Makes him look like P:M Diddy GT Forward > Wavedash/RunningCC > Fsmash.
He was using Dtilt > SH RAR Bair at the percents we were talking about. Dtilt Usmash around 145+ish.
Constant banana pressure, peanut banana walling, Everything ZeRo was doing was in the context of brawl, but with smash4 things. And just alot of technical stuff. I need to rewatch sandstorm so i can see everything but those were the things off the top i noticed he was doing. Oh and Uthrow-Fair is legit confirmed :3

 

[InBOUNDHD]

By the way conti will you be updating the first post with tech like dtilt rar bair and whatnot?

 

[W.A.C.]

Sonic, Rosalina, Fox,

I don't think Fox is better than Diddy Kong, but Sonic and Rosalina post patch? Yeah, that's very possible. Now that I've had more time to play around with Diddy Kong and watch how ZeRo adapted his play style to better fit the new Diddy Kong, I currently think he's top 6 at absolute worst. Now that Diddy Kong is nowhere near as strong and has to rely more on bananas and peanuts to win, the Rosalina matchup could turn into one of Diddy's worst matchups thanks to her down special.

I don't even think Mii figher is better than Diddy. and yeah Metaknight is horrible, you can ask most top players.

I consider Meta Knight a mid tier character because he can fare pretty decently against most high tier characters, but is still at a disadvantage most of the time. He has a lot of things going for him and against him as a character. I would never consider him horrible in this game.

Granted, I was going off of patch notes, After watching Zero play at sandstorm I think Diddy is still top 5, but not top 3. I haven't gotten my hands on the character since the patch because of work and school. So I've been going off what I'm hearing/seeing. and since Sheik and sonic barely got any nerfs, and their match up's with Diddy were pretty much even already. I'd say that now they are even and/or Diddy slightly loses.

I think Shiek is probably better than Diddy Kong at this point because her and Sonic's nerfs were nowhere near as damning as Diddy Kong's nerfs. Sonic's backthrow nerf and Shiek's back air nerf were pretty big deals though.

I have a perspective of the tier list that not many other people have because others don't understand match ups in a certain way. If people understood how to fight against mii brawler, they wouldn't lose to him. But since no one does, everyone loses. Which creates the illusion that he's top 3 or whatever else.

Yeah, it's hard to say how good he truly is because a lot of people haven't yet figured out how to fight the character.

I do think Jigglypuff, Samus, Ganon are some of the worst characters in the game, but Falco and MK in my opinion are bottom 10.

I think Jiggypuff fares considerably better in doubles than singles because rest retains its high reward but with far less risk. Her move sing is garbage, but at least the custom variants of sing can work well as an edge guard. Without custom moves, I'd say Samus and Ganondorf are easily some of the worst characters in the game. But with customs, their viability improves a lot. Hard to say where I'd put Falco, but I consider him low tier because he just doesn't seem to excel in any area. Though it's worth noting some of Falco's customs are awesome and a lot better than his standard specials.

It's still too early to tell anything but yeah I just give my opinion for those who ask based on what I can objectively see in match ups, options characters have, and from personal experience. I live in one of the most diverse regions for characters and skilled players NY/NJ, so I'm fine with forming my own opinions even if people disagree with them. As I will always say haha it's totally fine to disagree with me. I encourage it actually because then I can maybe see things I haven't noticed before. I do however have a very good understanding of the games and it's characters, I don't lose to gimmicks or strange character match ups. I gave my word with the disclaimer that I haven't really used diddy very much lol so people like to instantly ask me things then run off with my word like it's law. And my opinions change as well, because I'm open minded.

Yeah, your region is pretty insane with diversity, though are there any notable well Meta Knight players there? California has Ito, S2H, and Tyrant, who are generally regarded as some of the best Meta Knight players out there. Though I don't see Tyrant use Meta Knight much. Japan also has some solid Meta Knights. [LINK] Regardless, your opinion on a lot of stuff is understandable and your knowledge of the character balance is much better than most people (including myself).

P.S. Cool that we both have eyes as avatars.

My avatar is from a flash cartoon series called Xombie. The creator later sold out and I became less interested in the series, but I've always liked my avatar a lot and the series when it was at its best, so I've just kept it over the years. You can see the episode I took that artwork from here and you can watch all the episodes here. The series used to be viewable on Newgrounds but uh, yeah, the creator sold out.

Anyways, thanks for responding.

 

[InBOUNDHD]

Sonic, Rosalina, Fox,

Any thoughts on luigi as well? For me its harder to punish him since he slides so far when i do throw my banana at him.

 

[W.A.C.]

Yeah, Luigi can be a ***** to fight. Easily a top 15 character, probably even top 10.

 

[Leeyam]

Would UpB be more of a legit killing move now? Can anyone go over the applications for using it to kill?

Also, can someone take me through when I want to upthrow aerial instead of dthrow aerial? % based?

 

[Conti]

By the way conti will you be updating the first post with tech like dtilt rar bair and whatnot?

Tomorrow I'll be doing a lot to the op not on my PC atm
And I love @ Jtails input I completely agree with everything. Look forward to seeing what you come up with for Diddy.

Luigi is hard, one of my worst MUs, he was tedious in every smash game cuz his physics make you change ur play style and punish game
And theres a custom strong upb that kills but its not worth imo

 

[W.A.C.]

I tried that powerful up special in a match recently. Someone's Pikachu did a bunch of forward airs and I had no way of getting back to the stage. lol I like 1131 the best because I have more control over my recovery and it's faster. Its speed has saved my stock so many times.

 

[W.A.C.]

As much as I love Diddy Kong's current side special, his custom Back Flip now seems like it might be worth experimenting with because Diddy Kong's kill power is flat out not what it used to be. If you smash the stick, the move can work very well as horizontal recovery that also goes upward making you less likely to need to use up special to recovery back to the stage. The kick hits really hard and does a lot of damage. It can also be safe to use as an attack with platforms without the fear of suiciding. The standard side special is definitely Diddy's most versatile side special and was easily Diddy Kong's best side special option pre-patch, but that move got nerfed a lot and this custom helps to improve Diddy Kong's aerial kill power which is severely lacking post-patch thanks to the up air and forward air nerfs. Does anyone know if this move has some sort of peanut pop-gun cancel technique? I'd test it myself, but I'm not able to do the peanut pop-gun cancel move well with the standard side special.

Rocket Barrel Attack can also help make up for his lacking kill power, but the move has two major problems. For one, you need a damn good read with that move or else you're beyond punishable. The second problem is that it nerfs the hell out of his recovery and his biggest problem pre-patch was his recovery. I watched someone lose at Final Smash Attack today against 6WX largely because that recovery screwed him over so badly despite how much that special move helped the Diddy Kong player out when he fought Jtails. So yeah, I usually don't like using Rocket Barrel Attack outside of doubles where it can be a stupidly easy way to get kills. lol

Edit-

Actually, both of those customs together work fairly well because that custom side special is a better recovery move than Diddy's standard side special. Too bad that isn't a configuration for the Evo setlist, but the standard side special was easily his best one prior to the nerfs given to that move.

 

[Conti]

My bad i never updated the OP been really busy i will get it done this week tho i promise :] Interesting ideas with the customs, ill test em out when i get a chance.
Edit: I updated it with some of my latest info and stuff people been saying, theres still much more to add tbh, but got what we talked about with dtilt and stuff up there