Diddy Nerf 1.06 Analysis/Discussion (Why hasn't this thread been made yet?)

[Conti]

Hey guys :]
So It seems there are 2 complaint Threads on the Diddy Forums for his nerfs but No Productive Thread on Actual Discussion of his changes .

This thread is to discuss his current metagame and matchup changes, New Combos or Setups that have been created in the ashes of Hoo-Haa. Alternative options/ideas for making up for what he used to have. Ect ect ect. I know there is an actual discussion in the competetive Smash forum but thats the general summarys of the changes, and i'd rather keep this off the social thread so we can get all the info in one spot. We really need to discuss the depth of how these changes effect how to go about playing him honestly. So let's get this started.

Has anyone been able to do a side by side comparison with Diddy's changes that has found anything not listed? [Here's some Copy/Pastes from some other threads. Can anyone test Dash attack, i have this weird feeling it was changed but haven't seen anyone say anything about it and havent been able to test it [i feel like it links into Uair easier, Also does anyone else feel that our USmash has been changed?]

"Diddy Kong
Up Air Damage 8% -> 6% [KB reductions?]
Forward Air Damage 12/10% -> 10/8%
Up Throw 10% -> 8%
Down Throw 7% -> 6%
Monkey Flip Grab 12% -> 10%. Jump 10% -> 8%. Extra hitbox in kick, now is 14%/12%/10% from 14%/12%
Fsmash Ending lag increased"

"U-Throw got buffed actually. Less damage but that also means less KB and it combos into Uair pretty effectively and is WAY WAY harder to DI (if not impossible) compared to D-Throw."

"Uair nerfed from 8% -> 6%, knockback reduced. CONFIRMED

Fair nerfed from 12%/10% -> 10%/8%, knockback reduced. CONFIRMED

Uthrow nerfed from 10% -> 8%, knockback reduced. CONFIRMED

Dthrow nerfed from 7% -> 6%, knockback unchanged but hitstun reduced. CONFIRMED

Monkey Flip (kick) nerfed 14%/12% -> 12%/10%, knockback reduced. CONFIRMED

Monkey Flip (grab) nerfed 12% -> 10%, knockback reduced. CONFIRMED

Banana (Throw) nerfed from 7% -> 5% CONFIRMED"

CT Had a video covering it aswell, but i feel like he missed some stuff [side b] and knockback changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtSljkQ_Ndw

^^^ Those were from some other posts im terrible at quoteing stuff

So here's my General input, none of it was thoroughly tested, but it's why I'm bringing most of it up so we can get to the bottom of new Diddy.
The statement about UThrow i tested somewhat and I feel U-Throw 'Hoo-Haa' [Up airing at a strict timing after immediately jump and double jump reading their DI/Airdodge], is still a thing but at very precise %s depending on weight/FallSpeed, i don't think its 100% guareeteed or at least maybe on some characters it isn't, but you can frame trap and up air and it WILL KILL if you have rage, IT WILL NOT if you dont have Rage unless they are a light character (Not 100% tested tho, but my 1st impressions after playing Diddy all day today).
I cant figure out what the exact numbers and % are cuz i don't have someone to test this with, but i feel we neeeed to go in depth on his new throw combos, They are % dependant and knowing them really matters. This combo is definitely Character/Weight&FallSpeed dependant

Dthrow as we all know got nerfed but can still potentially combo early percents pretty efficently, 0-25 seems guareenteed still and from there depending on DI/Weight i feel like it gets sketchy and some characters are still able to eat a uair til like 60-65, and some escape the combo starting around 25. I wasn't able to thruoughtly test this but this is what i experienced today when playing. Yet again need to test what characters and Weights/FallSpeeds [someone help me out with this]

All airs are just combo tools now, We rely on Ground setups, or gimps to win now imo. Bair is now Diddys Best KillMove IMO, I'm pretty sure it kills the earliest around 130+ish if you get them by the ledge. Do we even have a log for Diddy's K.O%s i couldn't find them anywhere -.- Diddy boards whyy xD

Upair is now a spammable Combo Tool, that you must use to condition your opponent now, at low %s you can combo 2-3upairs off one Dthrow, I was able to chain like 4 upairs [Falling Uair, to full hop double uair, double jump uair again, follow their DI and a Dthrow to bair combo [did like 56% i think or something total] Upair is still our fastest and highest coverage airiel, don't be afraid to use this because it's still very very useful. It's rumored to have increased lag, Can any1 check to confirm there isn't? i honestly don't think they touched the frames at all on Uair it feels completely the same in terms of Speed on active hitbox and cooldown lag frames. But seriously, Use Upair whenever you see the chance, Don't have to worry about staleing it because your not going to be really killing with this anymore anyways. [Kills roughly around 140-180 now depending oh where ur trying to kill them from, compaired to 100-140]

Fair was the nerf i didn't expect, Honestly i don't feel it was necessary but eh, Whatever makes everyone feel better. It now kills like 20-30% later, Use it the same and it will eventually get the job done.

Fsmash got nerfed, I feel like KB / %s was messed with it and it kills slightly later, but i might be buggin cuz everything else got nerfed, i do feel like it was changed tho, maybe even just 10% more needed for kills, something seems up, And the only confirmed thing i know is they added cooldown to the endlag of Fsmash [nbd imo, the iasa frames were NUTS prior, now it feels above average]

UpSmash seems different as well but i might be mistaken, which is a major concern of mine because no1 is saying anything about it, but i feel like something with the properties of how it connects the hits, and possibly the KB is reduced, not really positive cuz i didn't pay too much attention to this move for a while. Can we test this so I'm not buggin? {Still havent been able to test this but the CT Video confirmed the angle was changed but not sure about KB}

SideB got %s confirmed nerfed, and i have no idea if they even touched the knockback, it seems the same, might be slightly nerfed but i havent heard anything about it and yet again havent been able to test. Seems to kill about the same %s but it doesn't hurt to double check.
Oh no more banana in hand Tilts/Smashes btw

Any1 else find anything?

Summary: Diddy got his K.O. power nerfed but his neutral game is still super solid, If you can win the neutral game, You can win the match, You just gotta work a bit harder is all.

Also i really think the Custom 3 Banana might be viable Vs Big/Heavy/Fast Faller characters with poor horizontal movement, i get like free combos til like 70-90% vs them cuz Upair to Reverse-DownB to Up air or upair[picking up banana on jump], to banana toss to upair, upair being nerfed makes alot of silly combos with these bananas imo, but definitely are matchup dependant and are really not that good for Floatys/High horizontal movement/ Short characters. I'm personally going to start using them for very specific matchups because i feel they put the matchup in our favor. The problem with these bananas is they mainly setup air combos, and take away our grounded kill options, they mainly good vs a character you have trouble getting in on & can get alot of off for getting in & don't have trouble killing without bananas and grabs, people you can get off the edge and edgeguard easily, im still testing these heavily and will have more input in due time. Might even make a thread about them. Just know they are not the best choice if you struggle getting the kill and don't get high rewards for air combos [Floatys or Fast Dair or escape option characters] That's pretty much all i got for now. Hope some info was insightful, Lemme know what you guys think and let's help get Diddy on the right track this patch. [This is Diddys Path to Righteousness xD] -
Edited because i wrote this at 2am lol, Sorry my grammar is terrible guys xP.
Thanks for Readin - ContiBeastMode

Day2 Findings: U-Throw To Fair might be the New-Haa! [New Hoo-Haa for Diddy] It racks more % then if u went for Dthrow to Uairs, the knockback reduction is actually a buff in a sense because the hitstun was unchanged [unlike Dthrow's hitstun was changed/reduced] and allowing crazy combos from 0-50ish it seems and it puts you in such a good position imo to reverse banana pluck or follow up into stuff, Also Uthrow Uair becomes a thing possibly later on but the %s for what it works at is confusing, and it won't kill without rage it seems, maybe light characters. Dthrow combos are still good mixups, but Uthrow might be the better option now overall. DThrown JC Tosses are really good for Fsmash Follow ups so try mixing this into your game if u want to expand ur kill options. At later percents where uthrow uair wont connect i realized, Uthrow - Jump as if you were following up with Uair but instead instantly Airdodge outta double jump to fake out/bait and Uair is really mindgamey and works.

Week1-2 Findings: [Update 4/28]
After alot of testing i believe Default Diddy is still the best Diddy [For Singles! The Custom Banana is good vs heavys/Big Characters/slow fallers and thats it, Taking away the grounded kill options vs all the high/top tier characters after alot of testing makes the matchups actually harder because you cant confirm kills] The 3 Banana is AMAZING in Teams tho, I use it over default and I've won/2nd placed my last 3 locals thanks to it. Especially if u have someone who can easily cover the air options for kills like Luigi with his downB, Sonic with spring Bair and his crazy speed, ect you can just think of neat comps.]
I'm going to test what @ W.A.C. suggested with the Custom SideB because im curious,
Moving on, Banana Tech is key to winning, using Zdrops, JCTs, SH Rising Instant throws and much more.
Apparently i read you can GT Cancle out of the Side-B SuperCrawl which sounds amazing if so.
Dtilt is one of our top tools for setting up kills now, Dtilt > UpSmash, RAR Bair are the main setups for 120%ish kills. Another Fancy Setup if you land a banana trip from a distance and dont see a Usmash Killing is, Banana Toss/JCT > FoxTrot (once) > StudderStep FSmash.
Reverse bananas into crazy mind games, Everything is just bait and hit, build up damage and get these setups.
There's more i need to add tbh, but i wanna collect more info because tbh i forget and yet again im updating this at 3:30am lol. Thanks for reading thats all for now!
- Conti

 

[p1ay6ack]

can you change the text color. it's hard to read e_e

 

[JayWon]

ITT: Quiet and desolate with only the very few real Diddy loyalists remaining to truly start the journey to evolve the meta, while all the tier whores who play to win abandoned ship.


Good luck to all the real Diddy mains!

 

[LiL.Will]

I'll give a long synopsis on the new 1.0.6 Diddy and how I have come to deal with him once I get a chance.

 

[W.A.C.]

You know what really sucks is that if we all adapt and modify our play styles to better fit the current version of Diddy Kong, another balance patch could further worsen this character and we'll have to modify our play styles all over again. Like imagine if they modified his up throw to where its knockback is comparable to what it used to be or if they made it have more knockback than ever before. It would wreck his grab combo game. The only reason why he didn't suffer worse from this balance patch is because the knockback reduction to his up throw improved his up throw combo game enormously. Once up throw to up air becomes super common, a bunch of whiny players who hate getting killed by that could influence a future balance patch to where his grab combo game just sucks.

I hate this balance patch so much. Makes me wonder if I should consider switching to a different character as my primary focus who is unlikely to get wrecked in a future balance update. I mean, who would have thought they would've massively nerfed Shiek's back air move after her kill power was massively nerfed in the previous balance patch? Her only air attack that can kill decently anymore is her up air, which needs the last hit in to kill. They'll probably make Diddy Kong suck in Smash Bros. 5 because he was a top tier character in two games in a row. I mean, look at what they did to Falco. Just ouch. Also, Diddy Kong's down throw was probably nowhere near as bad until the previous patch affected vectoring. If they had just left that in, his down throw might have been left alone. Who knows.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Now that he's fair, I've considered picking him up.

He's hella' fun when he doesn't have the stigma of being this game's Fox. And good riddance to that. With the advent of balance patching, Mew2King will have to find a character that he actually likes instead of just going, "ooh, so-and-so is #1. Let me pick him every damn match. They're all just a buncha' hurtboxes anyway, and it'll help me draw public opinion against this game's not-Melee-ness. LOOK AT THIS MONKEY AND LAUGH AT THE UNBALANCED CASUAL GARBAGE" like he's been doing.

 

[Trunks159]

Ugh, I dont really know if we can call him fair yet. If Diddy is still op of course ill ask for a patch. Dont say we're just whiny because our opinions differ. I want as many characters to have a shot as possible.

 

[W.A.C.]

I want as many characters to have a shot as possible.

I do too, but not in the way this game has been handling balance patches. It's just resulting in this game becoming slower paced and causing characters to have more landing lag than necessary.

 

[Quillion]

I always said before the patch: Just BARELY change Diddy. And then buff everyone else.

Using Diddy actually takes skill now that u-air has less damage and knockback. But he'll still be the well-rounded chimp we've all come to hate love.

 

[Zorai]

Diddy is not coming back from this nerf. He might even be as low as mid tier now.

 

[W.A.C.]

Oh hell no. He's definitely not low or mid tier now. He's still like top 5 at absolute worst.

 

[p1ay6ack]

maybe down tilt is the new meta for didddy. doesn't his reduced knockback actually make combos perform easier

 

[Fluidityt]

Samus > Diddy now.

You have been warned.

 

[Trunks159]

Buffing everyone else seems like itd take longer, plus the balancing has a higher possibility of becoming unstable.

 

[Dooms]

That moment when you make an analysis/strategy discussion thread to avoid the complaining and it still turns into a complaining thread. :v

On topic, I still feel that Diddy has amazing out of shield options with uair/bair, and he still has grab combos/mixups out of his down/up throw. He still has his super fast fair, dtilt is still solid, and banana trip -> fsmash is still a thing. He just has issues with killing now (much like Sheik except slightly worse). Don't even get me started on Rocketbarrel Attack in the custom meta (since from my understanding that didn't get nerfed).

We'll just have to have a "hit them until they die" mentality when we play Diddy now, much like Sheik players. That's my opinion, anyways.

 

[p1ay6ack]

That moment when you make an analysis/strategy discussion thread to avoid the complaining and it still turns into a complaining thread. :v

On topic, I still feel that Diddy has amazing out of shield options with uair/bair, and he still has grab combos/mixups out of his down/up throw. He still has his super fast fair, dtilt is still solid, and banana trip -> fsmash is still a thing. He just has issues with killing now (much like Sheik except slightly worse). Don't even get me started on Rocketbarrel Attack in the custom meta (since from my understanding that didn't get nerfed).

We'll just have to have a "hit them until they die" mentality when we play Diddy now, much like Sheik players. That's my opinion, anyways.

tbh, i didn't read the op's thread, cuz the font hurts my eyes >,<

 

[Mahgnittoc]

F-air being nerfed was overkill.

I think Diddy's jab got a speed increase. It always felt so bad to use before now it looks kinda good which can help his neutral game. U-air is still good for killing since you have options to put people near the top blast zones. The only issue with it is you have to make sure its not stale you you can still kill Falcon off the top of FD at like 115ish. And like Conti said, U-throw is a better frame trap than D-throw now. I was playing yesterday and kept getting kills around 115 because it's so much harder to DI out of. The only issue with this set up is if you miss the kill % from U-throw you will start throwing them too high to rely on U-air for the kill.

If you really like Diddy just take the time to adapt. He's falling in line with Shiek where he's got good speed and combos but killing is a bit harder.

 

[LipePereira]

What I can say for now is this:

First of all, I love Diddy as a character since the snes (where he already was top tier over dk and dixie lol) and that's the only reason I play him. The same reason I play Mario and donkey Kong. So, Sakurai can nerf him as much as he wants, I'll still be monkeying around and kicking butt with Diddy.

Now to the tech stuff:
I still hoo hah whenever I can. It's still a solid combo, and with the right reads can lead into stuff. I even spiked someone yesterday with d'air when they were expecting uair and dodged.

Second, his strength always was the neutral. He is still fast enough to punish mistakes and has great out of shield options. Like bananas and sex.

Speaking of the sex (side b), is super crawling still in? I forgot to test that.

In the end, we are not able to early ring out KO anymore, but we still have all the tools to rack up the damage and the proceed to kill them.

Finally : let's go bananas! It's time for us Diddy mains to put up the show noobs always complained that we didn't have. Let's chase them down off stage, gimp with the chimp and keep on being top tier.

 

[p1ay6ack]

has great out of shield options. Like bananas and sex.

haha, i know im taking this out of context, but i'm getting off diddy boards until later. this just made me laugh so much

 

[LipePereira]

haha, i know im taking this out of context, but i'm getting off diddy boards until later. this just made me laugh so much

Hahahaha I just wanted to reference Yo Videogames ' Dkc playthorugh

 

[Conti]

Guys For real, I wanna be ON TOPIC, [this is at the 1st few posts], if your going to complain about Diddy please gtfo :D and go to the other two troll threads. Thanks much ^_^

Oh and I Edited the OP so you guys can see it better :D My b, The purple blinded me from realizing how dark it was on this site haha,

That moment when you make an analysis/strategy discussion thread to avoid the complaining and it still turns into a complaining thread. :v

On topic, I still feel that Diddy has amazing out of shield options with uair/bair, and he still has grab combos/mixups out of his down/up throw. He still has his super fast fair, dtilt is still solid, and banana trip -> fsmash is still a thing. He just has issues with killing now (much like Sheik except slightly worse). Don't even get me started on Rocketbarrel Attack in the custom meta (since from my understanding that didn't get nerfed).

We'll just have to have a "hit them until they die" mentality when we play Diddy now, much like Sheik players. That's my opinion, anyways.

I wokeup and checked out the thread and thought the same thing -.- and yeah thats pretty much how it is now with the sheik comparison, I'm not a fan of that Up+B Honestly, Too Much Risk for such Risky Reward, Diddys Default Up+B is the most godlike recovery he has had out of Brawl/PM/S4. So many options for recovery and just mobility with curving and stuff, I'd never get rid of it for a Dolphin Slash Up+B that cuts my recovery by like 1/2. Ya know. I do expect people to use it to make up for killpower but i dont really think it is worth it. 3 Bananas on the other hand have situational use i think.

Diddy is not coming back from this nerf. He might even be as low as mid tier now.

Diddy is Amazing in every Smash game he has ever been in, his kit is too good, unless they destroy his kit [which they didn't]. They didn't even nerf his frame data outside of Fsmash so he still has one of the strongest neutral games.

F-air being nerfed was overkill.

I think Diddy's jab got a speed increase. It always felt so bad to use before now it looks kinda good which can help his neutral game. U-air is still good for killing since you have options to put people near the top blast zones. The only issue with it is you have to make sure its not stale you you can still kill Falcon off the top of FD at like 115ish. And like Conti said, U-throw is a better frame trap than D-throw now. I was playing yesterday and kept getting kills around 115 because it's so much harder to DI out of. The only issue with this set up is if you miss the kill % from U-throw you will start throwing them too high to rely on U-air for the kill.

If you really like Diddy just take the time to adapt. He's falling in line with Shiek where he's got good speed and combos but killing is a bit harder.

I feel ya about Fair man, Def didn't see that coming,
and Is this true? If so this is something else I would like to test. [About the Jabs]
And Yeah from like 100ish-115 I'd get Uthrow Hoo-Haas but i feel like theres alot involved with it now with weighs/fallspeeds and where the percents meet up, [I got it off on a DK around 115-125ish i think but unsure if it was legit]

Speaking of the sex (side b), is super crawling still in? I forgot to test that.

If you are talking about the Waveland nonsene [is that its official name? SuperCrawling? I always called it Waveland SideB LOL xP] yeah its still in, Side-B's momementum and range didn't get nerfed lol [i was scared sakuari would pull a lil mac] we can still do awesome Edge Cancles, WaveBounce Specials [All forms of popgun cancleing are still in] or SuperCrawls out of SideB.

Yeah I'd really like to like Skype/Stream A Testing Session or something with someone or even a group of Diddys on like skype, I want to figure this stuff out right away [I have a Tourny Tomorrow lol if we could make this happen tonight that'd be sick]. Comment and let me know if you wanna help :D[/quote]

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Diddy's neutral game and pressure abilities are still very good. He just has to work harder and you can't ad hominem throw out certain moves because of their coverage/safeness. You have to think more. Which is fine. It'll weed out the frauds. Anyone who's saying that he's anything less than top 10 right now is braindead and doesn't understand the game.

 

[LipePereira]

Guys For real, I wanna be ON TOPIC, [this is at the 1st few posts], if your going to complain about Diddy please gtfo :D and go to the other two troll threads. Thanks much ^_^

Oh and I Edited the OP so you guys can see it better :D My b, The purple blinded me from realizing how dark it was on this site haha,


I wokeup and checked out the thread and thought the same thing -.- and yeah thats pretty much how it is now with the sheik comparison, I'm not a fan of that Up+B Honestly, Too Much Risk for such Risky Reward, Diddys Default Up+B is the most godlike recovery he has had out of Brawl/PM/S4. So many options for recovery and just mobility with curving and stuff, I'd never get rid of it for a Dolphin Slash Up+B that cuts my recovery by like 1/2. Ya know. I do expect people to use it to make up for killpower but i dont really think it is worth it. 3 Bananas on the other hand have situational use i think.


Diddy is Amazing in every Smash game he has ever been in, his kit is too good, unless they destroy his kit [which they didn't]. They didn't even nerf his frame data outside of Fsmash so he still has one of the strongest neutral games.



I feel ya about Fair man, Def didn't see that coming,
and Is this true? If so this is something else I would like to test. [About the Jabs]
And Yeah from like 100ish-115 I'd get Uthrow Hoo-Haas but i feel like theres alot involved with it now with weighs/fallspeeds and where the percents meet up, [I got it off on a DK around 115-125ish i think but unsure if it was legit]



If you are talking about the Waveland nonsene [is that its official name? SuperCrawling? I always called it Waveland SideB LOL xP] yeah its still in, Side-B's momementum and range didn't get nerfed lol [i was scared sakuari would pull a lil mac] we can still do awesome Edge Cancles, WaveBounce Specials [All forms of popgun cancleing are still in] or SuperCrawls out of SideB.

Yeah I'd really like to like Skype/Stream A Testing Session or something with someone or even a group of Diddys on like skype, I want to figure this stuff out right away [I have a Tourny Tomorrow lol if we could make this happen tonight that'd be sick]. Comment and let me know if you wanna help :D

[/quote]


Yep, that's what I was talking about, and I don't think it is an official name, but I learned it from someone on youtube (izaw? my smash corner? probably my smash corner) and that's how they called it, so i'm imitating lol

But yeah, good to know that all that good stuff is still in

 

[Mahgnittoc]

I'll be streaming with friends tonight at twitch.tv/hsvasl if you wanna see some Diddy play

 

[Mx|Edd]

Even with this nerfs Diddy is still a top 5 character, his neutral is the same and his combo play is still solid; now he only suffer what I like to call the Sheik Syndrome (lates kill) but this can be cured with his custom up-b 'Rocket-barrel Attack' thanks to the up-thrown buff.

 

[InBOUNDHD]

Diddy can handle the rest of the cast fairly well, because of his good neutral, and because of this he is still top 5 or 10 imo. Wait a couple of more weeks, and we should have a feel as to where diddy fits in the meta. The only thing now is that diddy will have a much harder time with higher tier characters like luigi, rosalina, and sonic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still think F Smash is good, and am glad that F Air and U Air are still good moves in their own rights. I think I will be able to adapt well to these changes. Provided they won't nerf him any further.

 

[Conti]

Yep, that's what I was talking about, and I don't think it is an official name, but I learned it from someone on youtube (izaw? my smash corner? probably my smash corner) and that's how they called it, so i'm imitating lol

But yeah, good to know that all that good stuff is still in

Yeah i love that technique alot i would of been really sad if they took it out, its an underused and amazing option..
and yeah Luigi is a struggggle and Yoshi, i can't beat them, Rosa and Sonic are still dealable imo, I think Falcon is like super hard also, maybe one of our hardest matchups.

 

[W.A.C.]

I haven't played against actual humans yet since this patch took place (besides a few horribly laggy For Glory matches) and the changes I hate the most are his frame data nerf to his forward smash, his down throw nerf, and his forward air nerf. All his other nerfs don't bother me, but those three nerfs really suck. I wasn't against seeing how forward smash nerf, but only if they left his frame data alone which they didn't. Now the move is WAY more punishable, allows for far less followups, and has to be used a lot more careful. Diddy also just feels way less fluid after that move because of the additional frames of lag. Why couldn't they have left his frame data alone? I would have gladly taken a 10-15% damage nerf to his forward smash over messing with his frame data. They left Shiek's frame data alone in this patch and she arguably has the best frame data in the game. Down throw nerf is also infuriating because a lot of techniques and followups I'm used to doing flat out does not work anymore. Both the down throw and forward smash nerfs force me to play Diddy Kong differently than I could before that further limits his available options.

When I go to a tournament tomorrow, I really hope his down throw doesn't end up being worse than I fear. That move might end up being only worth using at ultra low percentages, insanely heavy characters, and an occasional D.I. mixup to throw off the opponent. If I have to constantly use up throw a lot instead in the future, I'll be pissed because that was always my least favorite throw Diddy Kong had. Also, I hate how they nerfed his forward air so much. Diddy Kong had my favorite forward air and forward smash in the game, and now those moves are nowhere near as much fun as they used to be. Overall, this balance patch is a massive disappointment. My four other mains got little to no buffs (though a bug fix for Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape is greatly appreciated) and my favorite character in the game is now nowhere near as much fun as he used to be and I'll never really be able to enjoy his old state again. At least with past Smash games like Melee and Brawl, the most fun characters will always be super fun. I can never enjoy how Diddy Kong used to be in a multiplayer setting ever again, which makes me hate Sakarai. Diddy Kong was overpowered but they went way too far with the nerfs, plus he could get further nerfed even more in the future. It makes me question if this is a game still worth playing competitively with the direction the game is going with balance patches.

 

[X1Type1]

I personally do not think Diddy is that much worse. I mean Hoo Hah is still a real combo until about 80 or 90 and Uthrow Hoo Hah connects more often now. Though you can't kill your opponents at a ridiculously low percent with a simple Hoo Hah, Diddy does indeed have a fantastic nuetral game and edge guarding with a bana in hand on in front of you while spamming peanuts still works wonders. Diddy is still a total God at juggling. Simply waiting on the ground for oppoentns to try and land and upairing them is still the easiest and best landing traps in Smash U since Diddy is so agile and his uair has so much speed and cover do much space. Kinda like in Brawl how MK will wait for you to try and land and just wait for the airdodge and thwn uair or nado you; Diddy can do the same thing (as can MK in Smash U but that isn't really relavant here). One thing to note however is since Hoo Hah has substantially lost kill power, Diddy's counterpicks will most likely change to something similar to his Brawl iteration. For Diddy 1.0.6, FD and Omega seem more viable than Halberd and Delfino as potential counterpicks. Similarly Diddy's killing methods will probanly become more defense priented in that pf throwing opponents pff stage and killing them with prolinged edge guarding or a read instead of just Hoo Hahimg them like before. But nonetheless I still can see Diddy placing very well in events in fact his high tier status is probably still quite intact. Maybe not undisputed top tier, but certainly up there and still possibly the best. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[Zorai]

Even with this nerfs Diddy is still a top 5 character, his neutral is the same and his combo play is still solid; now he only suffer what I like to call the Sheik Syndrome (lates kill) but this can be cured with his custom up-b 'Rocket-barrel Attack' thanks to the up-thrown buff.

Diddy is far from top 5 now. What you fail to understand is that tiers are based on how the characters do against eachother. Diddy now loses more matchups and goes even with more characters. These are not the signs of a top 5 character.

 

[W.A.C.]

The top three characters in the game were massively nerfed. Shiek's kill options are so limited, it's ridiculous. Sonic's back throw now kills way letter and his best damaging move does less damage than before, which makes it harder to get a back throw kill. All three of these characters were hurt badly from this patch and it's hard to say how they will fair in the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if they all stayed top five characters. It will say this though. With these nerfs, I don't really feel like any of these three characters can be considered S tier anymore. I just really hope Mii Brawler doesn't become the best character in the game. That would suck.

 

[Weeman]

Diddy is far from top 5 now. What you fail to understand is that tiers are based on how the characters do against eachother. Diddy now loses more matchups and goes even with more characters. These are not the signs of a top 5 character.

Could you please explain yourself how do these changes make Diddy Kong lose more matchups? Because you keep throwing that out there and it's clear you don't even understand what you're saying.
Diddy is still a very fast, very safe, fairly powerful, mobile and tricky character that can afford to be offensive against the entire cast.

 

[InBOUNDHD]

Lol jtails on stream today said in his own opinion diddy is Not top 5. Still is a good character though, and I think if he isn't top 5, at least top ten now.

 

[W.A.C.]

I have a lot of respect for Jtails, but his perspective in terms of tier lists can be horribly inaccurate. About a month ago, he said on stream that he viewed Meta Knight and Falco as the worst characters in the game. While Falco is probably low tier, there is no way Meta Knight is one of the worst characters in the game. He has a lot of true combos (though some are very difficult to pull off), one of the best up specials in the game, multiple jumps, disjointed hitboxes, good gimping options, etc. I feel it's way too early to truly know where Diddy Kong now stands on the tier list, but who the hell is possibly better than him besides maybe Mii Fighter and Shiek?

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Diddy Kong is still Top 5 even if it takes a while for people to realize how insane his neutral can be like it did in brawl. Banana's are still unbelievable for how versatile and confusing they can be and how they can open people up repeatedly. Diddy can still create as many openings as he needs to get to kill %, it's just actually gonna take some work learning matchups, combos, and item fundamentals.

Probably switching back to Diddy as my primary now because he plays like he did in brawl: a relentless combo maniac with a godlike neutral that is balanced with low killing power. As it should be. Good save Nintendo.

 

[InBOUNDHD]

I think more focus on center stage and getting opponent off stage at very high percents will be more important than going full aggro and dthrow>upairing. Diddy does feel more like brawl diddy after this patch.

 

[InBOUNDHD]

But with the banana's low priority and the fact that after 2 throws when it touches the ground it disappears this could be harder for diddy.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

I'm sticking with diddy but this drops him from top 5. After playing him a by chc yesterday against the best players in my area and even winning the majority of the games, Diddy is no longer top 5. The amount of work it takes to get people to the same percent is ridiculous and now his kills moves are nerfed. Diddy still fits my playstyle but before Diddy was quick and ended the match fast. Now he struggles to finish and takes so much longer to get them to kill %s

 

[RedBeefBaron]

But with the banana's low priority and the fact that after 2 throws when it touches the ground it disappears this could be harder for diddy.

Peels fizzling after two throws and on hit is good and bad. It limits what Diddy can do with them but it probably limits what the opponent can do with them more because Diddy will almost always get that first throw. Also peels vanishing on hit allows Diddy to immediately pluck again after a successful throw or pluck confirm which is very useful in certain situations. Diddy mains need to get better at aggressive plucks in general and weave it into the throws and z-drops before bananas really get crazy.