Diddy Kong Matchup Discussion

Diddy Kong

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#1
Official thread for discussing matchups for Diddy Kong in Smash Bros. Ultimate.

What are matchups you feel we win? What are matchups you feel we struggle against?

As for me, I think we're winning these relevant matchups:

:ultfalcon::ultike::ultkingdedede::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultmetaknight::ultmewtwo::ultryu::ultken::ultbayonetta::ultincineroar::ultzss::ultrichter:

Matchups I think we're struggling against:

:ultfalco::ultwolf::ultmario::ultluigi::ultsnake::ultinkling::ultkrool:
 
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#2
I'm glad you started this thread, I was thinking we need one!


I've personally been struggling with:


:ultisabelle: :ultvillager: Pocketing the banana makes for a rough match-up.

:ultsamus: :ultdarksamus: Their projectile game seems rough for me, and fire aeriels seem to trump mine.

:ultmario: The cape is not only a good banana counter, but if you monkey flip on to the stage and they read it, it seems to be a stock.

:ultzelda: The reflector and the phantom slash (the knight armor move) are tough for me to deal with. Reflector negates both banana and monkey flip if you don't time it right.


From your list, I haven't had a particularly tough time with:

:ultkrool: He's such a big target, and if you know his capabilities, it doesn't seem so bad. He can take a stock way earlier than you can, but you can also rack the damage up on them way faster than they can. Peanuts seem to catch K. Rool easily, and crown & cannonball are pretty easy projectiles to dodge. Set your D-Pad to Attack or Shield to bust out of that Dthrow very quickly at lower percentages (though if they read that, watch for them to follow you with a fair, at least that's what I do when I play as K. Rool).

:ultsnake: Snake vs. Diddy is a pretty classic Brawl match-up; it's still early, but I feel like it was a tougher match-up in Brawl than here. Snake's recovery is pretty susceptible to getting spiked if they recover low. Seems like it could potentially be even

:ultinkling: Maybe too early to call, but this match-up seems pretty balanced to me as long as I don't try and mess with them off-stage. The roller move that grounds you is usually punishable with a banana into whatever you want. The grenade seems like a great projectile but seems avoidable.



My general opinion so far: I think Diddy matches pretty evenly with the sword characters. I think he generally outmatches the heavy characters (though maybe not by as much as previous games), particularly if they're large targets. Projectile fighters seem pretty tough for Diddy, some more than others especially depending on how good or bad their recoveries are. Characters with a specific move that punishes both banana and monkey flip seem very tough.
 

Diddy Kong

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#3
:ultvillager::ultisabelle: Don't really come off as strong to me honestly. Definitely weaker than Smash 4 Villager, who wasn't all that much of a problem really. We beat them I feel, they are just annoying at times. But we beat them in the air, and on the ground if we can get out of the way of their projectiles.

:ultsamus::ultdarksamus: are much tougher indeed! Am kind of ashamed to say it, but yes indeed they have been difficult for me too. And am not sure why. Their projectiles are just strong, and priority is a issue for us here.

:ultmario: is just hard to hit and moves in too closely too fast for us to get comfortable with. There's not much to punish, he's too much in our faces, his Fire Balls destroy the peanuts we shoot, Monkey Flip is easily beaten by him, he KOs earlier and more reliably, he combos us for days... Just a bad experience honestly, all the time. We gotta work harder for no reason.

:ultzelda: is a bit too laggy for me to have problems with. Nayru's Love is the only problem, we can easily dodge the Phantom Knight and attack from the air with Monkey Flip. Then again, a good friend of mine mains Zelda since Brawl, so I was always forced to know this matchup.

:ultkrool: just gives me problems on the ground. His dash attack is strong, he lives till forever and kills us early. I find him much harder than any heavy weight ever. Smash Ultimate heavy weight included. I generally hate projectiles as Diddy now, and K.Rool has them which beat ours. We cannot kill before 160%, he can kill easily at 80%. This alone makes it a uphill battle most of the time. Maybe I just need to know the matchup better.

:ultsnake: is indeed a common Brawl matchup. Yet his projectiles are way more opressive this time, and we have no real good option versus them. His ground game beats ours therefore, and that's hard for getting grabs. I think I need to adjust my playstyle more however.
 

Diddy Kong

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#5
I am gonna take back what I said about K.Rool and Snake before. Because the matchups are actually quite okay. I just lacked matchup experience it seems, but now I got it down. If anything, I do agree we might beat them both slightly honestly.

How is anyone dealing with swordsmen? Their shield pressure and follow-up game from it is suffocating.
Dash dance, look for an opening to grab or throw a banana, and barrage them with F Air and B Air in the air. We aren't really challenged when they are in hitstun in the air most of the time if you move fast. Don't throw out the Monkey Flip at random, use the banana slightly more defensively as you would like in Smash 4, and follow up with offensive aerial assault. Peanut Popgunning them off stage is also highly advisable. Mix up Monkey Flip's command grab and Kick often if they turn shield heavy.

I think Diddy is one of the very few characters that has potential to beat them honestly. Chrom, Lucina, Roy and Marth never gave me much trouble at all.
 
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#6
Any thoughts on the :ultpacman: and :ultduckhunt: match-ups? It's mostly because I played very little of Smash 4, but I'm having a difficult time understanding how to safely approach these characters. Would love any tips you all have! :ultduckhunt: seems like a very projectile spammy character (which I tend to have a difficult time with in general), and :ultpacman: tends to be similar, but also just generally seems tough for me to punish and will catch me off guard with random moves pretty easily.
 
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#7
Oh, and I would also love any thoughts on the :ultpichu: & :ultpikachu: match-ups; I've lost to the same :ultpichu: player 0-2 in tournament twice now (the first time with Diddy, the second time I tried Inkling/Chrom, but I think I'm just going to switch back to trying to main Diddy). :ultpichu: just seems so small & difficult to land on, and can throw moves out very quickly.
 

Diddy Kong

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#8
Back again with a major update, I think I got our matchups down pretty much.

First of all, I think we beat these certain characters, around 55-45:

:ultsimon::ultrichter:; the wall of projectiles isn't really as much of a problem because we can easily get in with our speed, and grabs are insanely rewarding. Still a character to watch out for because of their power, but Up B alone is a great approach, and they are as easy to combo as heavies
:ultridley:: Big target, relatively light but still easy for us to combo, hates Peanut Popgun, easily punishable and easy to predict most of the time, jsut gotta be aware on the ground for his dash attack and other long ranged stuff. Basically fight against him as if he's a swordfighter, but more easily punished. Due to size and weight, explosions of the Rocket Barrel also do 22-30%.
:ultincineroar:: Abuse your mobility and long range banana throws, and this will mostly be a piece of cake. I say mostly, because Incineroar is still a character to watch out for, but there's a clear advantage for us.
:ultpokemontrainer:: So yeah, hear me out, I think we actually beat all 3 characters; :ultsquirtle:: we outrange him everywhere, and he's very light yet still able to easily hit with Banana, and doesn't like being walled in the air with Peanut Popguns. :ultivysaur:; probably the most even character for us to fight, but has laggy moves on the ground which we can easily abuse, and Razor Leaf isn't a problem if we jump over them with Side B and kick Ivysaur. Peanut Popguns also make their recovery messy. :ultcharizard:; probably one of the easier heavy weights for us to deal with honestly. He's mobile, but laggy. Takes a different approach, and most people use him out of desperation. Very easy to build damage against, and punish with a simple Banana > F Smash.
:ultlink:: Since people play him a lot now, all we gotta be aware of is gimps by his Remote Bombs and N Air. Otherwise, we got this. Easy to build damage against, easy to gimp, projectiles aren't as hard to deal with as say, Wolf's lasers because they're way slower, and of course, lag on ground moves and his low mobility.
:ultmewtwo:: Kind of the same thing as in Smash 4 honestly. Confusion is more reliable against our projectiles though.
:ultbayonetta:: See above, she's more laggy and easy to punish.
:ultzss:: Same as Mewtwo and Bayonetta, Power Suit Samus is harder to deal with for once.
:ultjigglypuff:: Because Jigglypuff is getting more exposure this time and she's buffed, basically play this as if you're fighting Squirtle. Watch out for Sing, keep a banana in hand if you're at Rest kill %. We outrange her greatly. Just watch out for aerial strings and being intercepted with recovery (which we should do anyway).
:ultbowser:: Big fatty, but able to turn things around easily. Begin a match with a crashing Rocket Barrel do demoralize them because it does a easy 30%. Whoever ever said Diddy has no combos, try fighting Bowser and see how quickly their opinion changes. Takes a bit of a while to KO however, so keep the flow going -which should be relatively easy.
:ultfalcon:: High mobilty, but easy to punish. We can grab because of banana, he can't. And this alone should be frustrating for the Captain. Combo food.
:ultcorrin::ultcorrinf:: Just watch their longe range dragonclaw lance. Nothing else is really treatening. Punish their stuff with long ranged banana throws. And that's the ironic thing of this matchup, we have a clear range advantage if we play smart.
:ultrobin::ultrobinf:: Kind of like in Smash 4, we just win by character design alone lol
:ultganondorf:: Easy to lose a game against them, but in tournament settings, we will have the advantage. Just learn the playstyle of the Ganon you're facing and you'll easily punish them. Diddy and Ganondorf are both heavily reliant on a steady flow of strings, so these fights go rather quick. Just don't be too intimidated by them, watch the Flame Choke set ups.
:ultzelda:: Few things to watch out for, many oppertunities to punish heavily. Be aware, but abuse the hell out of combo oppertunities. Nayru's Love protects against the Rocket Barrel explosion, so watch out with that. Also watch that Phantom. Other than that? It should be very easy to land KOs.
:ultsheik:: All advantages she had in Smash 4 are kind of gone. Needles are less of an annoyance, and suddenly fighting Sheik is a cakewalk.
:ultryu::ultken:: Big target which is easy to hit with Banana, and combo food. We win neutral easy because of their rather laggy moves, and they don't have a real distinct range advantage. Attacks come out rather slow, and this makes this match play somewhat like a Smash 4 match.
:ultfalco:: I overrated the bird pilot innitially. Slow enough to punish reliably. Rocket Barrels make his life harder. Blaster isn't all that oppresive anymore. Monkey Flip Kick is great approach, and we can KO them easily.
:ultkingdedede:: If we beat ONE character reliably, it's King Dedede possibly. Peanuts beat Gordo y'all!
:ultbowserjr:: Sure, Jr. and the Koopalings are buffed, but fundamentally they are still quite easy to read and predict, and slow enough to punish. Nothing should suggest we wouldn't beat them.
:ultlittlemac:: Little Mac is just.. bad. But don't feel overconfident. He hits hard, but we win neutral.
:ultlucas:: Would be a 50-50 matchup if he didn't have a slow and punishable tether grab which he overly relies on. When the Rope Snake is out, throw banana and ruin his day.
:ultpacman:: Whilst buffed, there's just way too many room in PacMan's gameplan for us to punish them. And we can deal with hydrants easily.
:ultkirby:: Inhale > Banana. Yet, it doesn't leave for many problems. We can even win this without Banana because Kirby's range is pitiful. Yet, he can combo us well. We just have small strenghts over him, and we can KO easier than Kirby. Very light as well. If we beat Jigglypuff already, then Kirby automatically loses as well I feel.
:ultmetaknight:: Winning neutral makes us win this easily, doesn't have the range to keep us at bay as other swordies. Easy to KO as well.
:ulticeclimbers:: Everything they ever had over us in Brawl is removed. We can seperate them easily with Monkey Flip, or Rocket Barrel crashes.

Characters I feel we have a even 50-50 match up against:

:ultpikachu:: We both combo each other hard. What advantage we have with Banana, Pikachu counters with easy gimps and Thunder.
:ultpichu:: Can get in hard, but easy to punish honestly because they can get careless quickly. And that is a thing our little buddy can abuse. D Tilt outranges a lot of Pichu's attacks, and throw the banana from a shorter distance to get in hard. Honestly, I would say we actually BEAT Pichu honestly, but seeing his combo potential I kinda move Pichu here. The rest is basically as Pikachu. What advantage we have with banana is neutered with Thunder and easy kills for them.
:ultchrom:: Kind of the same situation as above, I actually think we have the potential to BEAT Chrom, but gimps make it harder for us. Quick fights as well these, watch for EVERY punish oppertunity. I believe we easily beat Chrom on-stage, but off-stage is where he beats us, and badly. As long as we keep stage control, we win.
:ultroy:: Basically the same as above, yet we don't have to worry much about his range advantage. Yet, this is countered by him potentially killing us even earlier. Keep your toes and play footsies real well, abuse Banana Throw range buffs, combo whenever possible. On stage, we win. Off stage, we lose badly.
:ultlucina:: What has been said before basically, but less extreme. She still will ruin your day with combos however.
:ultmarth:: If we would beat one of the Fire Emblem Sword Lords, it would be Marth first. Yet, tippers can ruin our life easily.
:ultvillager::ultisabelle:: Only 50-50 because of Pocket, and how it can keep our Banana. But at least in this game, our Banana is back when we land a KO. We should be beating them, but they have options against our stage control, so I kinda keep it safe and say 50-50.
:ultyoshi:: If we can land a solid hit, we have a combo flow, but his air speed makes this a lot harder than it should. I used to struggle with this, but once you find a way around the matchup and find exploits for punish, we build up damage FAST! Don't be demoralized, and keep patience while you search for a misplaced act of courage of Yoshi by throwing in a punishable move.
:ultkrool:: Lives forever, and theoretically, we should win. But; King K.Rool has way to deal with our usual way of getting stage control. Neutral is harder to play against K.Rool than most other characters. And again, he lives till forever. And that's bad for us, because a good K.Rool player will find it easier to adapt to our game plan because he just won't die. We also can't damage his belly armor very well. I much rather play DK against K.Rool than Diddy honestly.
:ultrosalina:: Luma is annoying, but easier to deal with than in Smash 4. Gravitational Pull is still annoying because it always pulls in the Banana. Forces us to play different, but is still managable to fight against without Banana. And if we have the Banana in hand, Monkey Flip is still VERY effective against Rosalina and especially Luma.
:ultness:: Don't get hit by PK Fire, punish whenever you can, can challenge us in the air and KO much easier, but we find openings way easier. 50-50 is my estimation because I'm not 100% confident we beat Ness, but it's not all that much of a challenge. Just keep a good and steady flow against Ness.
:ultpit::ultdarkpit:: They are harder than average to deal with in neutral, and in neutral we shine the most. Relatively fast for a "swordie", and that hinders us outside of the projectiles and orbitors.
:ultsonic:: Harder to punish than normal because of insane mobility. We could potentially win, but Sonic is the only character am kind of worried about to leave our Banana on the ground. However, grounded Banana also hinders his mobility. I'll just say 50-50 because I'm not too confident and don't have the most matchup knowledge because luckily, not many people play Sonic this time.
:ulttoonlink::ultyounglink:: They can get a lot out of this match by forcing us to approach. Harder to deal with than Link because of their speed. Not all that hard, just annoying. We could easily beat them honestly. Young Link is probably a bit harder to deal with than Toon Link, because in general we combo floaties badly and N Air on Young Link can hinder our combos.
:ultsamus::ultdarksamus:: Their projectiles alone make this matchup annoying. We beat Samus solidly otherwise. But because playing Samus is 70% dealing with their projectiles, I think we should rank it around this?
:ultfox:: Kind of has a lot of things going against us, but we can KO them very easily. They could theoratically beat us however, but I haven't struggled too hard against Fox despite him looking majorly buffed from Smash 4.
:ultwolf:: Keep away from the Blaster range. Monkey Flip Kick from the air is a great approach tool against a blaster spamming Wolf. But he hits hards and has a reflector. So, kind of hard. We have equal advantages and weaknesses on both side I feel. Just, watch out. As he can be kinda scary at times.
:ultcloud:: We lost this before, now we don't. Because he can't just camp us out as badly, and his sword range has been nerfed allowing us to punish easier. Because Banana Throw is also longer ranged. We can now kinda oppress him instead, but Limit Break still neuters a lot of our fun.
:ultike:: Get around Neutral Air and win. That's mostly it. Yet, Neutral Air is really, really, really good against us. Slow and easy target which is easy to combo, but ironically, it's HIM that has the more combo confirms against us. That puts everything in perspective easily. Just... don't get hit by Neutral Air.
:ultpalutena:: Ironically, it's kind of a similar situation and Mr. Goddess Slayer Ike, avoid Neutral Air and punish whenever possible. Watch out for reflection stuff and her projectiles. She gets easy advantage on hit, but so do we.
:ultmario:: Gets in our face rather uncomfortably at times. Makes neutral hard to play, and I still think having a solid neutral advantage is our ticket for a easy matchup. Yeah sure he can't grab us as hard anymore, yet the matchup kind of remains the same from Smash 4 despite our buffs and nerfs. Punishing is also harder. These little annoyances change a matchup up that we are actually supposed to be winning.
:ultluigi:: Grab is slower now har har har. We can abuse that. Recovery is now bad for him, but he can still combo us hard. We might even win this honestly, as we now DO win neutral and Banana is easier to land now that we have increased range on it, but still.. rather uncomfortable to fight against.
:ultdoc:: Tornado is bad for us. Can kill us early, and has the standard Mario Bros. annoyances, but a bit easier to deal with than Mario however. Still, neutral isn't easily won, and he can kill us stupid early.
:ultgnw:: Just a stupid matchup for us. Whoever is even responsible for making that bucket a reflector!? That alone changes stuff. Then again, am not too knowledgable about this matchup.
:ultrob:: Gyro, laser, Side B, repeat, and he does surprisingly well agaisnt us with this. Neutral is harder for us, and again, this makes things harder. Still, once we get in, damage comes easily. Approach with a crashing Rocket Barrel from time to time once he starts to feel comfortable.
:ultshulk:: Kind of similar to the rest of the sword RPG hero gang. Can't say much more about it.
:ultlucario:: We used to beat them, but now Aura is more stable, and since we take long to get our KOs, this makes Lucario scarier by default. Aura Sphere is also annoying, and Lucario now has strings on us, and kill throws. Other than this, we remain to have our advantages over Lucario as we did in Brawl and Smash 4. Which is solid enough to counter it as 50-50.
:ultmegaman:: Smash 4 matchup basically, but we get more reward on hitting them out of their comfort zone. So that makes the matchup less annoying.
:ultduckhunt:: This was always a quite even matchup I feel. But now, they are buffed.
:ultwiifittrainer:: They are good at keeping us at their desired range, but if we land a Banana, it's a problem for them. Peanuts beat the volley ball, which is fun. Still, am not too confident fighting them for some reason.
:ultdk:: This was very hard for me to rate, because I actually think DK has some SOLID advantages over us. Yet, we can get in easy like against all heavies. But he has super armor on a lot of relevant moves, and edgeguard us amazingly well. Just gotta keep on your toes all the time, and try to play almost perfect because he can punish us as hard as we can punish them.

Now, here come a few matchups am quite sure we're losing. 45-55 from here on:

:ultwario:: Aerial oppression, hits hard and reliable, great mobilty, and this makes it hard to get our Banana game going. His moveset and playstyle just requires a lot of adaptation, and he can abuse this. The motorcycle also makes landing a Banana harder. He can eat our food projectiles, and that makes his Wario Waft charge up faster. So... yeah, a surprise losing matchup.
:ultsnake:: His explosive arsenal just turns the stage into a real life minefield. Hard to keep our neutral going with this. While it's not impossible to get in, he just has these mind tricks on us, and he wins by trading hits, and can live forever. And like the K.Rool matchup, living long is bad for us because he can adapt to us easier. He's predictable maybe, but has a lot of small advantages over us all over. Might just be a bad matchup for myself honestly.
:ultolimar:: Yeah, this dude beats us. Maybe even our worst matchup. We just can't play neutral as usual, like all our losing matchups so far. Lands KOs easy, small target, but lives longer than us. Rocket Barrel explosives are almost needed to deal some damage in.
:ultinkling:: I still struggle against them. Can build up damage easy, is fast enough for us to not being able to abuse our speed like we do against most zoners, and that DAMN ROLLER! I hate it. I dislike fighting them.
:ultgreninja:: He's fast, and can KO us easy. For a change, we do actually win neutral. But he has other stuff going in his advantage, as his overall frame data, and gimping, as well as disjointed attacks, and he's faster I feel. Approaches very easily from the air, and each hit on his leads for easy damage. We have to try harder against them, and that alone makes it feel like a losing matchup honestly.
:ultpeach::ultdaisy:: Turpins are annoying, and we kinda won this matchup in Smash 4 because F Air walled Peach. I don't think this matchup is terrible by any means, and easier to deal with than the others mentoined, yet the Princesses have certain strenghts that just come in very handy against us. And I hate recovering agains them. Gotta be careful with them.

Hope this is helpful for you guys! :ultdiddy:
 
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#9
I agree most of this! Here are some of my thoughts:

:ultpichu: could be 45-55, if only because they seem to get KOs around the same percentage on Diddy as I do on them. Maybe I'm just approaching this match-up wrong, but I really struggle against a good pichu.

:ultfox: could also potentially be 45-55. Also just makes for an interesting match-up, It kind of feels like I'm playing Brawl against someone who is playing Melee. Maybe I just need to get better at reading them, or just play faster in general.

:ultinkling: I still think this is 50-50, it just seems very even to me.

:ultsnake: Maaaaaybe 50-50, but definitely tough.

:ultgreninja: Maybe I just haven't been playing that good of Greninjas, but I think this could potentially be in Diddy's favor? They seem to get KO'd very early, which is big for Diddy because I feel like that doesn't happen with a lot of comparable characters. Their projectile doesn't seem very threatening compared to other characters.

:ultkingdedede: This is the only match-up that I think is reliably better than 55-45. Peanut beats gordo, banana pull beats gordo, & it'll generally punish D3 for even trying it (& if they hit the gordo back at you, you can generally just hit it again easily). Without gordo, the rest of the moveset can be spaced out pretty similarly.

There are so many characters that I do think it's tough (for me at least) to reliably create a list like this. For instance, the only Greninjas I've faced are random people on Quickplay (I think I'm pretty high in Elite with Diddy, at least to where when I win games now I move up like only 500 points or so even when matched against people the same rank, and also don't lose much for losses ~ I also don't come across players with many more points than I have. However I could be wrong about where I am here, the whole system is still a bit of a mystery to me. Anyways, my other Elite characters are way lower in GSP than my Diddy). In contrast, I've played a couple of games against a Yoshi player on Quickplay that also wins local tournaments & travels for majors, and I got absolutely crushed, which might skew my idea of that match-up, even though that player could likely beat me with a slew of characters.
 

Diddy Kong

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#10
Hmm to be honest, Wolf might be harder than Greninja indeed. It's just, Greninja can overwhelm us easily with their fast attacks. But so can Fox... Maybe you are right though. Wolf and Fox might be a little tougher, and losing matchups. I might simply do well because of matchup experience. But Snake, I still think we're losing that one.

Pichu, I still say even. Because we can KO them so easy, and D Tilt is faster than mostly anything they can throw and outranges them.
 

Acute

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#11
Official thread for discussing matchups for Diddy Kong in Smash Bros. Ultimate.

What are matchups you feel we win? What are matchups you feel we struggle against?

As for me, I think we're winning these relevant matchups:

:ultfalcon::ultike::ultkingdedede::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultmetaknight::ultmewtwo::ultryu::ultken::ultbayonetta::ultincineroar::ultzss::ultrichter:

Matchups I think we're struggling against:

:ultfalco::ultwolf::ultmario::ultluigi::ultsnake::ultinkling::ultkrool:
Got any info on banana loops??
 
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#16
But really, maybe they're asking about the banana infinite on the platform? Afaik it works on any character, but is more difficult as the character gets smaller. I haven't started practicing it yet. Was this what the question was about?
 

tuck :)

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#20
:ultpokemontrainer:: So yeah, hear me out, I think we actually beat all 3 characters; :ultsquirtle:: we outrange him everywhere, and he's very light yet still able to easily hit with Banana, and doesn't like being walled in the air with Peanut Popguns. :ultivysaur:; probably the most even character for us to fight, but has laggy moves on the ground which we can easily abuse, and Razor Leaf isn't a problem if we jump over them with Side B and kick Ivysaur. Peanut Popguns also make their recovery messy. :ultcharizard:; probably one of the easier heavy weights for us to deal with honestly. He's mobile, but laggy. Takes a different approach, and most people use him out of desperation. Very easy to build damage against, and punish with a simple Banana > F Smash.
Can you avoid grounded razor leaf with grounded side b? not a huge deal if you have to short hop over it, but if you can just monkey flip over/through the razor leaf that'd be cool.
:ultbowser:: Big fatty, but able to turn things around easily. Begin a match with a crashing Rocket Barrel do demoralize them because it does a easy 30%. Whoever ever said Diddy has no combos, try fighting Bowser and see how quickly their opinion changes. Takes a bit of a while to KO however, so keep the flow going -which should be relatively easy.
also helps that bowser is actually so fat, that the banana infinite is so goddamn easy. you can hit bowser with banana pull while you are both on the same level. example: https://twitter.com/TheDakpo/status/1108109015215730690
:ultsheik:: All advantages she had in Smash 4 are kind of gone. Needles are less of an annoyance, and suddenly fighting Sheik is a cakewalk.
sheik also can never kill. you can live to really high percents, and use rage to kill her so early with banana -> smash attacks.

:ultlucina:: What has been said before basically, but less extreme. She still will ruin your day with combos however.
lucina is a paaaain. definitely dont think its even. we just get stuffed out hard in neutral and its a sad time.
:ultkrool:: Lives forever, and theoretically, we should win. But; King K.Rool has way to deal with our usual way of getting stage control. Neutral is harder to play against K.Rool than most other characters. And again, he lives till forever. And that's bad for us, because a good K.Rool player will find it easier to adapt to our game plan because he just won't die. We also can't damage his belly armor very well. I much rather play DK against K.Rool than Diddy honestly.
on the contrary, we should not be losing to k rool as diddy. k rool plays mainly on the ground, which means so many opportunities to rack up major damage with banana. and while his recovery is pretty safe, it is quie linear so if you manage to hit him offstage from the side and avoid the propellors, you can edgeguard him pretty easily.
:ultike:: Get around Neutral Air and win. That's mostly it. Yet, Neutral Air is really, really, really good against us. Slow and easy target which is easy to combo, but ironically, it's HIM that has the more combo confirms against us. That puts everything in perspective easily. Just... don't get hit by Neutral Air.
100% agree here. im sure ppl think diddy loses, but seems like an even matchup to me.
 

LightKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
274
#21
What about the oh so forgotten Mii Fighters?:ultmiifighters: :ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter:
I could imagine MiiSwordfighter being a little bit of an nuisance with that Reversal Slash (Mario Cape).
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
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#22
What about the oh so forgotten Mii Fighters?:ultmiifighters: :ultbrawler::ultgunner::ultswordfighter:
I could imagine MiiSwordfighter being a little bit of an nuisance with that Reversal Slash (Mario Cape).
To be honest, I need to redo a little of this list. I was way too enthusiastic about Diddy, and this leads to exaggeration of the MU chart.

I still think we’re even with Pichu, and we beat Lucina, but we definitely lose to Fox and Wolf. Pikachu is also strangely more difficult for us than Pichu. That’s because we can KO Pichu way easily and our Banana disturbs Pichu’s overall flow and ground dominance. D Tilt is also amazing vs Pichu.

Lucina we beat because honestly we can play the midrange play better than her. And we are way more mobile. With a Banana in hand, we can punish all her grounded options really really well, because we are just fast enough to exploit her ending lag. It’s also because she’s less mobile than Chrom and Roy... this makes fighting them harder than Lucina.

I’m also confident we lose to Mario, and even Dr.Mario. Dr.Mario because he’s way stronger than Mario and we struggle to kill him while he can kill us quite easy. Mario was already a bad MU in Smash 4 I felt, and now he’s just straight up oppressive because he outboxes us and has answers to our ground game with his aerial mobility.

In general, air mobility is difficult for us, because we excel on the ground with our mobility and we can’t trip aerial foes. If our ground speed is better than their air mobility, we win. This makes MUs vs DK and Yoshi 50/50 even though we have all the tools we should have to beat them.
 

tuck :)

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
21
Location
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#23
Havent been on the boards in a while, hey guys.
I just went to my first tourney in like a year and a half at Combo Breaker 2019. I think i did okay despite my rust, I placed 97th out of 433, going 3-2 in my pool. Here are the matchups I had to play, so maybe I can give some insight on playing these matchups in actual tournaments.
:ultken:
So my first opponent was a Ken player. I had basically no experience in this matchup going in, but I learned a lot very quickly throughout the set. Ken has really brutal vertical strings, where he can combo his down b into a strong shoryu and do massive percents. but, he has to stay still for a long time while doing his down b so it's easily reactable. Ken also doesnt seem to get a lot off of his throws besides just back throwing you off the stage, so shielding is pretty safe. Ken moves basically entirely on the ground, so all we have to do to completely beat him is to ensure we get him to slip on a banana and combo him. So yeah I think Diddy wins this MU.

:ultjoker:
Now obviously a ton of people play joker, and if youve ever gone online you know that Joker is an extremely common character there. So I'm sure a lot of you guys already have an opinion on the Joker MU, so I'll keep this one brief. My opponent played Joker mainly grounded and only did really unsafe aerials on shield, so banana was incredibly busted this match. I also think arsene isn't that big of a deal, and its easy to work around. Personally I think Diddy wins since I've never had too much trouble with Jokers, but that's just me.

:ultganondorf:
After I beat my second opponents Joker game 1, he decided to switch to Ganon. Ganon is a pain to deal with, no matter what character you play as. You gotta be sitting in your shield far away from him to be safe from his stupidly strong attacks. shielding on platforms is actually really good vs ganon, as he only has the options of up-b and jumping on the platform and grabbing. You can easily react to both if he starts running towards you, and you can jump away and punish, or if youre incredibly baller, try to set up an infinite. On the flipside though, once you get hit by one ganon move, you are in such a bad spot. Ganon has really good stage control ability, making it really tough trying to reset back to neutral when youre in disadvantage. So I think its either even, or maybe diddy wins slightly.

:ultike:
Okay, so I know i said that I think Ike is even vs. Diddy, but after playing my third opponent who beat me, i think ike might win slightly. And its not salt or johns or anything, so hear me out. Ikes game is a lot of short hop nair in neutral, trying to set up his vertical ladders and back airs. Normally I would say just shield and banana toss to punish his nair, but it has such low landing lag, he can shield the banana and hop away, or try to punish himself. I found myself relying on banana less this matchup since Ike is just bouncing around in the air everywhere. his recovery isnt that punishable, unless you can read how far his side B will go. I also foolishly picked smashville as the first stage, completely forgetting how small that stupid stage is LMAO. So yeah, I think Ike just has a bit of an easier time with his kit than diddy does.

:ultpalutena:
So now I'm in losers, and I have to fight a palutena. I honestly didnt get a great representation of the MU as this Palu was pretty unconventional. Minimal use of nair and bair, and really only tried to get me in the air to upsmash or up air me. i only remember him using neutral b at the very beginning of the match, and side b once to try and stuff my recovery. So while i did win the set, I cant really say that diddy wins or palu wins the mu.

:ultsnake:
this ***** is impossible like wtf am i supposed to do

Let me know what you guys think about this stuff.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
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#24
I agree with everything you say so far. Also I don’t think Palutena is all too hard honestly. She’s quite laggy, and that really helps out our game plan. We are quick enough to close the gaps between her projectiles and lag, so I do think it’s at least even. There’s way worse Top Tiers than her.

Also yes I do agree that we beat out Joker, and we beat him pretty good. I have only lost to a Joker player once since his release.

Then again I feel we beat lots of characters who are ground based and laggy, and most important: slower than us. Also helps if they don’t have a projectile. However strangely enough I don’t feel we win the matchups against DK or Incineroar. We don’t lose them either, but they aren’t very comfortable fights despite our advantages.
 

LightKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
274
#25
So I'm hearing a lot of the enthusiasm over Diddy's buffs but I thought it was interesting to hear Zero say the patch doesn't really change his losing matchups. If correct, Diddy is likely rising through the tier list but still has big weaknesses exploited by some characters.
As someone who doesn't play Diddy at all really I am curious to hear peoples thoughts on this who use Diddy.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
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#26
So I'm hearing a lot of the enthusiasm over Diddy's buffs but I thought it was interesting to hear Zero say the patch doesn't really change his losing matchups. If correct, Diddy is likely rising through the tier list but still has big weaknesses exploited by some characters.
As someone who doesn't play Diddy at all really I am curious to hear peoples thoughts on this who use Diddy.
I’m not sure honestly. I mean I guess we still lose to the likes of Inkling, Wario, Olimar, Snake, Wolf and Fox but just the fact we can hold out much longer due to not getting gimped all that easily releases a whoooole lot of stress from these matchups and gives Diddy a more fair chance against them. I mean, we can literally live easier due to not being gimped as much and as early. That’s a big buff, and ZeRo is being too negative I think. I haven’t seen his video, mind you. But he’s way too adjusted to Smash 4 Diddy still that he won’t see the blessings that are these buffs in the right proportions just yet.

I mean our jab is also preventing a lot of the rush down weakness we had before. So at least that covers a bit of that weakness. And it won’t be a game changer, but Diddy becomes wayyyyy less stressful to play. And that makes people able to optimize Diddy better because there’s far less need of a secondary character now. I’m also convinced we beat the likes of Chrom and Lucina now, and stand a way better chance against Pikachu; those three had nasty gimps against us.
 

Lacrimosa

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
1,082
Location
Germany
#27
Having thought of putting up Diddy again. Have dropped him during Sm4sh because that character required way too much skill that I didn't have back then but I really like him and these buffs look fun.
But my 2 cents...

I already said that but kinda interested how Dakpo will do in the future against Ven at locals. Ven won the sets against 3.0 Diddy but only a few matches are no real indicator how this MU works. I still think it's awfully garbage for her, but something I didn't know watching these sets: Phantom can actually somehow "reflect" the banana toss.
I feel like this MU is heavily dependant on how banana and phantom are played out. Maybe the whole MU boils down to this but Diddy is still better when airborne.
Both can't really hurt the other off-stage. (If you try to 2-frame her then be prepared because when holding down, Farore's 2nd hitbox will hit and that move kills fairly early). But when you know that, you are aware of that option, of course. So the match will most of the time going on on stage because both chars can't really edgeguard each other. Not sure about ledgetrapping, though.
Anyway, I look forward to these matches^^.
 
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