Did The Patch Affect Samus?

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

All the homebrewed patchnotes I've seen floating around don't mention Samus and I haven't had the opportunity to compare and contrast personally. Anyone find anything?

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

I have found nothing.

Sad times.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I have found nothing.

Sad times.

I say I'm fine with no buffs as long as it implies there were no nerfs. But still were you expecting something? Did you have anything specifically you would have liked to see? Personally a buff on run speed would have made me the happiest little person in the world.

 

[BCE]

what ? you see 0 problems with samus ? samus was way nerfed compared to brawl version. her jab > jab combo is useless, her Dsmash dont kill, she jumps TOO high and floats a lot, her Dair was faster and caused meteor smash in all animation, now its just few frames and i will never accept these bombs that dont explode on impact like melee

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

what ? you see 0 problems with samus ? samus was way nerfed compared to brawl version. her jab > jab combo is useless, her Dsmash dont kill, she jumps TOO high and floats a lot, her Dair was faster and caused meteor smash in all animation, now its just few frames and i will never accept these bombs that dont explode on impact like melee

Who said they saw 0 problems with Samus? You seem like quite the entitled person, my man. I'm not saying she's perfect, just that I'm content with playing the cards I'm dealt. Itbcould have been worse. She's actually overall better than she was in Brawl.

 

[Los4Muros]

Who said they saw 0 problems with Samus? You seem like quite the entitled person, my man. I'm not saying she's perfect, just that I'm content with playing the cards I'm dealt. Itbcould have been worse. She's actually overall better than she was in Brawl.

I kind of understood the same thing. Impling that Samus doesn't need any changes or not to expect anything from he is kind of a synonym to having no problems with her. Truth be told, i thought Samus has going to be one of the characters to recieve a buff in this patch considering she is being taking a Low Tier so far. I haven't felt any changes yet. I was told that she was a bit faster and that her missiles have a bit less starting lag, but unable to play the previous version, it's hard to compare the frames.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I'vd heard there are no adjustments to knockback and damage for all of her moves. Is her run speed really faster? That would be lovely news alsoless starting lag on missiles might have just made offstage super missiles that much more practical.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Definitely not less lag. We were messing with that yesterday on NinjaLink's stream. Didn't notice anything. If there was something, we're talking like... 2 or 3 frames.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Definitely not less lag. We were messing with that yesterday on NinjaLink's stream. Didn't notice anything. If there was something, we're talking like... 2 or 3 frames.

Was there anything at all that you noticed?

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

As I said earlier in the thread, nothing.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

As I said earlier in the thread, nothing.

Just checking to see if you had perhaps found anything since

 

[Kiyosuki]

I remember when the first invitational happened that Sakurai said he and his team considered Samus "too good" in the (then) current build, and were surprised that no one picked her.

Now there's always the possibility that's just them being well...a little more relaxed players than maybe many on this site so in casual 4 way matches she'd be good there enough for them to say that...but there's always the possibility too that maybe they last minute changed a few things on Samus before release, and are now afraid to alter anything. Maybe to the devs she's walking some sort of fine line between what she is now, and stupid good. I dunno, you never know.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I remember when the first invitational happened that Sakurai said he and his team considered Samus "too good" in the (then) current build, and were surprised that no one picked her.

Now there's always the possibility that's just them being well...a little more relaxed players than maybe many on this site so in casual 4 way matches she'd be good there enough for them to say that...but there's always the possibility too that maybe they last minute changed a few things on Samus before release, and are now afraid to alter anything. Maybe to the devs she's walking some sort of fine line between what she is now, and stupid good. I dunno, you never know.

I feel deep down they nerfed the **** out of her before release but yeah, super possible that to the people who were playtesting the game that she was "the best".

 

[Los4Muros]

I feel deep down they nerfed the **** out of her before release but yeah, super possible that to the people who were playtesting the game that she was "the best".

Maybe the game testers found something we haven't been able to see yet and this something is what makes her so good. Maybe that's why they decided not to patch her in any way, because buffing her would overpower all the Top Tiers creating another Meta Knight for this Smash Bros. And maybe just maybe, this something was so good, it was necessary nerfing her missile cancels, her dSmash and her meteor. If they wanted to keep this something in her in the Tier List, then it was a must to take away all these good moves.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Maybe the game testers found something we haven't been able to see yet and this something is what makes her so good. Maybe that's why they decided not to patch her in any way, because buffing her would overpower all the Top Tiers creating another Meta Knight for this Smash Bros. And maybe just maybe, this something was so good, it was necessary nerfing her missile cancels, her dSmash and her meteor. If they wanted to keep this something in her in the Tier List, then it was a must to take away all these good moves.

Idk man, that sounds like a lomgshot. She's had her killing power distributed across her moves instead of having a easy as butter meteor she has killability in all her arials. Here's hoping though

 

[SmashWolf]

Maybe the game testers found something we haven't been able to see yet and this something is what makes her so good. Maybe that's why they decided not to patch her in any way, because buffing her would overpower all the Top Tiers creating another Meta Knight for this Smash Bros. And maybe just maybe, this something was so good, it was necessary nerfing her missile cancels, her dSmash and her meteor. If they wanted to keep this something in her in the Tier List, then it was a must to take away all these good moves.

Oh, please. Her entire character is weak, hard to regain momentum with and easy to combo. Just adding missile canceling or fixing her Dsmash/Dair wouldn't make her "OP", not even remotely. Besides, Missile Canceling would almost be useless with the inability to have more than 1 missile on the playing field.

Seeing how Sakurai has a grudge against projectiles in this game (he nerfed almost all the old character's projectiles, possibly for anti-spam), I assume they were just bias against someone in the testing team who spammed missiles and called it overpowered. They are trying to view their own game from the eyes of a casual gamer, after all.

 

[leiraD]

It seems to me that Samus is currently one of the least played characters. That would mean that the devs have some of the least amount of data by which to know whether Samus "should" be further buffed or needed. Unless the can see data that shows that Samus has something very broken about her, or very low (or high) win percentages, I doubt that they'll change her.

 

[SmashWolf]

It seems to me that Samus is currently one of the least played characters. That would mean that the devs have some of the least amount of data by which to know whether Samus "should" be further buffed or needed. Unless the can see data that shows that Samus has something very broken about her, or very low (or high) win percentages, I doubt that they'll change her.

Then it'll never change. Because the only win percentages would be from people who are very dedicated Samus players, and are thus would be very good at the game in general. Most others would just cut their losses soon since Samus doesn't have the same casual appeal as Pikachu or Little Mac.

 

[leiraD]

Then it'll never change. Because the only win percentages would be from people who are very dedicated Samus players, and are thus would be very good at the game in general. Most others would just cut their losses soon since Samus doesn't have the same casual appeal as Pikachu or Little Mac.

Your response is a little hyperbolic. If the variable of time were extended, we can assume that over time, enough data to compile to determine what buffs or nerfs would be appropriate.

 

[SmashWolf]

Your response is a little hyperbolic. If the variable of time were extended, we can assume that over time, enough data to compile to determine what buffs or nerfs would be appropriate.

I dunno. But you'd think Samus' performance in Brawl and the games that came before would've been enough data to assume that she needed a buff in Smash 4.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I know it's easy to forget, or even want to remember, but I think it's worth remembering that it's entirely possible the devs just don't think in the same way that the competitive scene does when designing this game. It's very possible they play the game a lot more passively than maybe the various competitive communities do. Not to say they don't pay attention to game balance...but perhaps they do it in a more broad way, and playing this game more casually I could see how people with that mindset might not think there's much wrong with Samus at-a-glance. I think they're paying more attention to the fine tuning and little details in this game, maybe partly thanks to Namco's influence but who knows...but still it may not be their "mental norm"

Not saying she shouldn't be adjusted because while I don't think she's as bad as some think, she could do with some tuning...I'm just saying that could be a reason why they don't seem to be paying much attention to her at the moment.

 

[SmashWolf]

I know it's easy to forget, or even want to remember, but I think it's worth remembering that it's entirely possible the devs just don't think in the same way that the competitive scene does when designing this game. It's very possible they play the game a lot more passively than maybe the various competitive communities do. Not to say they don't pay attention to game balance...but perhaps they do it in a more broad way, and playing this game more casually I could see how people with that mindset might not think there's much wrong with Samus at-a-glance. I think they're paying more attention to the fine tuning and little details in this game, maybe partly thanks to Namco's influence but who knows...but still it may not be their "mental norm"

Not saying she shouldn't be adjusted because while I don't think she's as bad as some think, she could do with some tuning...I'm just saying that could be a reason why they don't seem to be paying much attention to her at the moment.

Yeah, that pretty much sounds like this.

Seeing how Sakurai has a grudge against projectiles in this game (he nerfed almost all the old character's projectiles, possibly for anti-spam), I assume they were just bias against someone in the testing team who spammed missiles and called it overpowered. They are trying to view their own game from the eyes of a casual gamer, after all.

 

[Cobli Samus]

what ? you see 0 problems with samus ? samus was way nerfed compared to brawl version. her jab > jab combo is useless, her Dsmash dont kill, she jumps TOO high and floats a lot, her Dair was faster and caused meteor smash in all animation, now its just few frames and i will never accept these bombs that dont explode on impact like melee

I'm new to Smash Boards (though signed up back in '06) so I don't know where every Samus player stands, but you're the first person I noticed who feels my pain. The powers that be have done nothing but mess Samus up across these new iterations of Smash since Melee. I didn't think they could nerf her any more than in Brawl (which is why I never bothered playing it), and then 4 came out. It's a shame, and I sincerely hope, by some miracle, a patch will come out to adjust her for the better.

 

[Zulyar]

I personaly feel she's weaker in smash 4 then she was in brawl, i had the 3ds version and i just couldn't get myself tobuy the wii u version, and yes i even had bought a wii u for smash on mariokarts release (which i personaly also felt was underwhelming) so all in all my wii u is still dead for personal taste in the games i want to spend time on.

personaly for samus moves my personal opinions are (from about 200~ i think 3ds for glory games):
dash attack : it's unsafe at low percents as it has always been, other then that i didnt feel much changed about this move.
jab : i personaly havent found much wrong with this, i kept with the melee style of jab into a tilt usualy.
d tilt : it basicly has no kill power anymore, sure it always needed a high percent, but on same stages and characters it could still kill at like 130%, now it feels like you need them on 180% on light floaty characters making it useless to kill, at higher % it can't combo anymore either.
F tilt: still good imo.
U tilt: definately worse then her old uptilt, the fact you can tech it before they even fly into the air makes no sense(grounded aponent) the inablity to use it on an edgegaurd becouse everything speedspots the ledge, and it just feels slower to me somehow.
jumps : her jump is low, and slow, i do like samus so this personaly isn't a problem to me but it's certainly not a good jump it just fits her smash character.
fall speed : same as above, though i feel she really needs to fall a bit faster, this is personal opinion, i still want her t be floaty but she feels too slow for this game.
size : sure, she's not a DEDEDE or something, but checking the whole cast i think her hurtboxes are still on the biggest out of the cast and she's also one of the slowest characters.
nair : honestly this is a massive nerf from her old nair. the old nair had just as good knockback as this one if you enabled it inside of someoens hitbox and it was great if you were getting combod becouse it filled a large area with a hurtbox and it came out fast aswell. new nair is clunky and imo just 100% nerf.
fair : again, massively nerfed the only real use for it is as a ledge attack becouse you cannot use it on the stage becouse of its huge lag, you hit them, ff to stage you get punished becouse the move has no stun at all, and through fastfall you can never get the last hit of fair in that does have some knockback and stun. sure you can use it as a throw folow up too. amazing. (sarcasm it's horrible)
dair : slower, sour spots added, Rip, old dair better.
Bair: sweetspot Bair has always been amazing, i don't feel this move got nerfed, stil lgood, its just hard to use well.
Uair : i didn't notice any killing power off of this move as some seem to apply in this thread? maybe it was another, but yea. to me it seems like her old uair, exept from the games mechanical changes that it's easyer to get all hits in from multi hit moves. so imo, a small buff to upair.
U smash : i'm slightly biased here, i found it useless in melee and brawl, and used to PM loving it, smash 4 buffed it from melee and brawl, but compared to PM it's still unusable. tldr : its useble, but its still super situational and generaly bad.
D smash : no knockback, low range, i can't recal lwhich way it knocked you in brawl, but i love melees knockback of d smsh. get that back in there and ncrease it's range slightly and its gold, as it stands, unusable imo.
F smash : her go to kill move outside of charge shot, its good, it recieved a buff from brawl, certainly in knock back and kill power and some range. however. the f smash can miss targets that are to close to you. LIEK WTF?1 indeed, the hurtbox of this move is only your cannon and flame, not your upper arm which makes no sense. give her arm a hitbox and it's good.
power missle : 1 missle out on the battlefield? along side no missle canceling and a power missle having no kill power either? i believe to recall hitting a 150% target and it still only knocks them back like 3 character lengths. so bad.
homing missle : personal thing, i don't make much use of these, good thing is they are not limited to 1, but have no dmg or knockback/stun either. bad.
bombs : not exploding on contact, bomb jumping being nerfed, their useless.
up B : a lot of peopel find this move buffed, i don't really agree, i think it's more of a balance change for no platforms. becouse you normaly did upb and cancel it on a platform before the enemy can land before you do (floatyness) and punnish you for hitting the move, yes it can kill on high percents, but i don't think the move is really made for that, just a balance change to make it more safe to use under pressure.

charge shot : yey it got buffed! samus op now.

these are my opinions and you are free to agree or disagree, i personaly gave up on playing samus, i'll play wii u at a friends house or a local tournament sometimes maybe, but i'd always prefer to play PM over it.

PS: sorry for typo's or spelling errors.

 

[Hapajin]

I personaly feel she's weaker in smash 4 then she was in brawl, i had the 3ds version and i just couldn't get myself tobuy the wii u version, and yes i even had bought a wii u for smash on mariokarts release (which i personaly also felt was underwhelming) so all in all my wii u is still dead for personal taste in the games i want to spend time on.

personaly for samus moves my personal opinions are (from about 200~ i think 3ds for glory games):
dash attack : it's unsafe at low percents as it has always been, other then that i didnt feel much changed about this move.
jab : i personaly havent found much wrong with this, i kept with the melee style of jab into a tilt usualy.
d tilt : it basicly has no kill power anymore, sure it always needed a high percent, but on same stages and characters it could still kill at like 130%, now it feels like you need them on 180% on light floaty characters making it useless to kill, at higher % it can't combo anymore either.
F tilt: still good imo.
U tilt: definately worse then her old uptilt, the fact you can tech it before they even fly into the air makes no sense(grounded aponent) the inablity to use it on an edgegaurd becouse everything speedspots the ledge, and it just feels slower to me somehow.
jumps : her jump is low, and slow, i do like samus so this personaly isn't a problem to me but it's certainly not a good jump it just fits her smash character.
fall speed : same as above, though i feel she really needs to fall a bit faster, this is personal opinion, i still want her t be floaty but she feels too slow for this game.
size : sure, she's not a DEDEDE or something, but checking the whole cast i think her hurtboxes are still on the biggest out of the cast and she's also one of the slowest characters.
nair : honestly this is a massive nerf from her old nair. the old nair had just as good knockback as this one if you enabled it inside of someoens hitbox and it was great if you were getting combod becouse it filled a large area with a hurtbox and it came out fast aswell. new nair is clunky and imo just 100% nerf.
fair : again, massively nerfed the only real use for it is as a ledge attack becouse you cannot use it on the stage becouse of its huge lag, you hit them, ff to stage you get punished becouse the move has no stun at all, and through fastfall you can never get the last hit of fair in that does have some knockback and stun. sure you can use it as a throw folow up too. amazing. (sarcasm it's horrible)
dair : slower, sour spots added, Rip, old dair better.
Bair: sweetspot Bair has always been amazing, i don't feel this move got nerfed, stil lgood, its just hard to use well.
Uair : i didn't notice any killing power off of this move as some seem to apply in this thread? maybe it was another, but yea. to me it seems like her old uair, exept from the games mechanical changes that it's easyer to get all hits in from multi hit moves. so imo, a small buff to upair.
U smash : i'm slightly biased here, i found it useless in melee and brawl, and used to PM loving it, smash 4 buffed it from melee and brawl, but compared to PM it's still unusable. tldr : its useble, but its still super situational and generaly bad.
D smash : no knockback, low range, i can't recal lwhich way it knocked you in brawl, but i love melees knockback of d smsh. get that back in there and ncrease it's range slightly and its gold, as it stands, unusable imo.
F smash : her go to kill move outside of charge shot, its good, it recieved a buff from brawl, certainly in knock back and kill power and some range. however. the f smash can miss targets that are to close to you. LIEK WTF?1 indeed, the hurtbox of this move is only your cannon and flame, not your upper arm which makes no sense. give her arm a hitbox and it's good.
power missle : 1 missle out on the battlefield? along side no missle canceling and a power missle having no kill power either? i believe to recall hitting a 150% target and it still only knocks them back like 3 character lengths. so bad.
homing missle : personal thing, i don't make much use of these, good thing is they are not limited to 1, but have no dmg or knockback/stun either. bad.
bombs : not exploding on contact, bomb jumping being nerfed, their useless.
up B : a lot of peopel find this move buffed, i don't really agree, i think it's more of a balance change for no platforms. becouse you normaly did upb and cancel it on a platform before the enemy can land before you do (floatyness) and punnish you for hitting the move, yes it can kill on high percents, but i don't think the move is really made for that, just a balance change to make it more safe to use under pressure.

charge shot : yey it got buffed! samus op now.

these are my opinions and you are free to agree or disagree, i personaly gave up on playing samus, i'll play wii u at a friends house or a local tournament sometimes maybe, but i'd always prefer to play PM over it.

PS: sorry for typo's or spelling errors.

Hmm, yeah I don't agree that she is worse than she was in Brawl.

Dash attack: Punishable if shielded, obviously, but thats not unlike Brawl.

Jab: nerfed, yeah because you can escape the second hit

Dtilt: how did you combo with it in Brawl? definitely a lot easier for me to combo with it in smash4 compared to Brawl, even if it is weaker.

Ftilt: agreed

Utilt: worse than Melee/PM Utilt? yeah. Brawl's? Only slightly IMO because of the teching issue. Doesn't feel slower than Brawl's Utilt to me at all.

Jump: So is this a nerf from Brawl? lol doesn't seem any different to me

Fall Speed: ^^

Size:^^

Nair: 100% disagree. Melee/PM nair is of course better, but we're comparing to Brawl Samus, right? Brawl Nair had zero knockback, and combine the fact that it is a sexkick plus the lack of hitstun in brawl, it was super punishable. Awful move I never used in Brawl
SSB4 Nair, while it isn't a sex kick, has high knockback, good knockback angle, and starts quickly and ends quickly. The knockback angle and strength make it a solid edgeguarding move, and I've used it to break a few air combo strings. It's a bit hard to land because of the small-ish hitbox, but at least you aren't savagely punished for using it like in Brawl.

Fair: You're kidding right?

Dair:agreed

Bair: agreed

Uair: agreed

Usmash: Agreed. mostly

Dsmash: I find it decent to punish rolls or laggy moves still, as kind of a get-away-from-me move. Again, not as good as melee/PM Dsmash, but certainly not unusable

Fsmash:mostly agreed

Missiles: mostly agreed, I find them bad against higher level players, but not flat out terrible.

Bombs: ...So just like in Brawl? Not really a nerf...

UpB: based on what you said here, it seems like a pretty hefty buff from Brawl if you ask me.

Charge shot: yeah much better than brawls. yay

Thanks for letting me feel free to disagree! PM is great, but comparing PM samus to SSB4 samus isn't fair. However, Brawl Samus seems really slow, weak and clunky to me, and personally, when I compare brawl/ssb4 samus', the new Samus feels overall more smooth and powerful. Overall, I think the main thing that makes her more usable in SSB4 than Brawl is her new follow up options.

Edit: also I feel like her grabs and throws are much better in SSB4 compared to Brawl as well.

 

[Zulyar]

yea my brawl expeirnce is manny manny years old , i'm not saying her jumps and stuff got nerfed, their probably the same, i just feel she should be slightly less floaty, still being a floaty by comparison just a bit faster would make me pretty happy on her wieght, and no, i feel her fair is pretty crap personaly. and yea bombs arent nerfed from brawl, exept worse bomb jumping, so actualy yea, nerfed from brawl.(i think brawl has the same bomb jumping as melee/pm has) honestly i just got way more experince in melee/pm since i started attending tournaments in my country.

 

[Beard Hawk]

I can FEEL a difference between version 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 in the grappling speed. If you miss a grapple it lags a LOT longer. I can't prove this as I only have version 1.0.4 now, but if anyone has an old copy could you please test this. Also, you can no longer up-B out of shield. That was an amazing option before. You now have to let go of R and press up-B. If I can remember correctly, on 1.0.3 you could hold R and press up-B without letting go of R to go straight from shield to screw attack.

 

[EnGarde]

I can FEEL a difference between version 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 in the grappling speed. If you miss a grapple it lags a LOT longer. I can't prove this as I only have version 1.0.4 now, but if anyone has an old copy could you please test this. Also, you can no longer up-B out of shield. That was an amazing option before. You now have to let go of R and press up-B. If I can remember correctly, on 1.0.3 you could hold R and press up-B without letting go of R to go straight from shield to screw attack.

Did you disable tap jump? Up+B out of shield still works, but you need to do a jump cancelled up+b. Jump, then immediately up+b. It's much easier to do with tap jump on, though with practice it is possible with tap jump off.

 

[Beard Hawk]

Did you disable tap jump? Up+B out of shield still works, but you need to do a jump cancelled up+b. Jump, then immediately up+b. It's much easier to do with tap jump on, though with practice it is possible with tap jump off.

Ahhh, yes I did!