DI for combo mechanic?

[FlamingForce]

So is there any way to actually DI out of harms way when a lucario gets in and starts his mashing or are his grounded combos all guaranteed?

 

[Darkgun]

Almost every move Lucario uses to combo opponents can be DI'd down-away to escape more quickly. Further, since quite a few of Lucario's grounded moves have a low knockback, Lucario can be CC'd and then punished/shielded. With that in mind, usually if you're hit with one of Lucario's grounded moves, you'll take at least one or two more hits before getting out of range. The real danger is being hit while just above the ground where it is impossible to CC, though I believe I recall hearing that Lucario's moves are quite susceptible to SDI as well.

 

[FlamingForce]

The main problem I face is when they use early side-b's in their combos, it sweeps cc right off its ass and goes through your shield, is there any specific way to get away from a side-b grab to prevent followups?

 

[Katara]

The main problem I face is when they use early side-b's in their combos, it sweeps cc right off its *** and goes through your shield, is there any specific way to get away from a side-b grab to prevent followups?

The forcepalm has a 6 frame start up, depending who you are playing as you can do an OOS option at that time or buffer a roll.

Also if you are CC his attacks you can attack him in between too if you have a good dtilt

 

[PcTriumph]

The main problem I face is when they use early side-b's in their combos, it sweeps cc right off its *** and goes through your shield, is there any specific way to get away from a side-b grab to prevent followups?

if you buffer a roll away you're golden

The forcepalm has a 6 frame start up, depending who you are playing as you can do an OOS option at that time or buffer a roll.

Also if you are CC his attacks you can attack him in between too if you have a good dtilt

Damn your timing

 

[Darkgun]

The forcepalm has a 6 frame start up, depending who you are playing as you can do an OOS option at that time or buffer a roll.

Also if you are CC his attacks you can attack him in between too if you have a good dtilt

As of version 2.5, the startup for Force Palm was increased to 12 frames. This is particularly important to note because if it were six frames, there would be several moves, that when linked into FP on shield would be inescapable, which was the problem with 2.1 Lucario, hence the change.

 

[HK_Spadez]

as a lucario. What do you do against CC? like if I dash atk and I know he's CC'ing. Whats the best follow up?

I was under the impression that up tilt had fastest startup after landing a dash atk. but im not sure.

 

[Risky]

as a lucario. What do you do against CC? like if I dash atk and I know he's CC'ing. Whats the best follow up?

I was under the impression that up tilt had fastest startup after landing a dash atk. but im not sure.

CC'ing is pretty brutal for Lucario depending on the character. If you know he's CC'ing you generally don't want to DA, but DA -> Dtilt will stuff CC if you sweetspot the Dtilt (near his toe). This is surprisingly difficult to do and messing it up guarantees their CC option on you. I've done some weird stuff like DA -> ASC inside of them and fully charge + shoot the aura sphere against a Mario while he was mashing Dsmash, and it stuffed him completely. Dair is good. Usmash is also great but I find whenever I try to do it their option somehow comes out quicker, despite Usmash being a 4 frame startup.

If they're ready to CC your dash attack, dash dancing is usually your best bet. DD grab when they're trying to cheese every approach you do. Once they get that in their head it changes the game. Mix in Double Teams behind them after the first hit of whatever opener you do or even out of DD. If their Dsmash would still hit you (Mario) then that may be Risky™

TLDR; Grab, Tip Dtilt, Usmash, Dair, Double Team

 

[HK_Spadez]

oh man. didnt know up smash had 4 frame startup? thats pretty damn good. any idea where all the frame data is for 3.0. I found it for 2.5 but i feel like thats outdated by now

 

[Giygacoal]

Sweetspot downtilt is good, but yeah Lucario won't always be able to counter crouch cancel efficiently.

 

[FlamingForce]

Played him again today but the result is just always the same

Can't shield, you get grabbed.
Can't cc, he just beats it, either his cancel combos come out so fast that your cc move doesnt come out or he teleports behind you or cancels into some other crap lol
Can't punish him because he just throws out things, cancels and runs or throws out something before you can.

I'm at a complete loss here, down-b will just always beat you because its ultra-fast and he starts off the game with a free charge which means he is never without one because he charges super quickly, his approach is near impossible to read because of down-b. No defensive option seems to work on this thing.


http://www.twitch.tv/kidoramin/b/536944703

Played this whole session using mostly Roy/diddy/ness but the whole thing just doesnt seem to work, I tried to cc a couple of times but kept getting punished.

 

[Risky]

Can't shield, you get grabbed. -> Buffer a roll when he's hitting your shield, Lucario never has a guaranteed grab on shield.
Can't cc, he just beats it -> Roy can CC almost everything low % into Dtilt. Dsmash if he DT's behind you a lot.
Can't punish him -> You aren't avoiding any of his attacks, just getting hit. Try WD back when he comes in. Space him.
Down-b will just always beat you -> He's vulnerable during the first half, invincible the 2nd. If canceled his grounded DT option can be parried with almost anything if you know he's going for it. This won't work vs DT aerials. Recognizing the angles he can actually approach you out of the air with a DT will limit his options. If you have a hitbox out at the end of DT (and he didn't cancel it) he WILL get hit.

You can't always be trying to react to Lucario or you will fail. You have to be proactive and putting out hitboxes. He's only good if he gets the hit.

I watched a few of the matches, and I think Mr. R is better than you. He can be very oppressive sometimes. Play against him more and try some of this stuff, you'll see the character isn't impossible to overcome.

If you really want to win pick Mario. Press B and down on the C-Stick. You'll go far kid.

 

[FlamingForce]

Many thanks, I may actually have a bit of a plan for his down-b shenanigans but I'll use your advice as well.
He is better, but that doesn't take away the fact that I lack mu knowledge which will give me a better chance vs him, what exactly do you mean by trying his stuff?

And yeah I'm aware of Mario, but I'd rather feel good about winning.

 

[Risky]

I watched a few of the matches, and I think Mr. R is better than you. He can be very oppressive sometimes. Play against him more and try some of this stuff, you'll see the character isn't impossible to overcome..

 

[FlamingForce]

My baaaaaad.