Desynch Combos

[Speedsk8er]

Does anyone here actually do them or is it just chaingrabbers and wobblers here?

I am referring to desynch combos like seen in the end of the Infinite Possibilities video. Sure, DI wasn't taken into account and lots of them were done on fastfallers BUT those were very awesome, extended and creative combos. We need more IC players that do that as opposed to the usual, Dthrowdair, etc...

I've been working on pulling those kinds of combos off on humans and I usually fail. But I'm learning and I would love to be able to do that kind of thing.

Anyone else working on this skill?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I don't remember those combos, I'll have to watch that video again o.o

I think most IC players just try to remove their opponent's stock ASAP because the ICs can be gimped so easily, and it's hard to set up those awesome combos. But maybe that's just me, I'm a very generic textbook kinda guy and I just do boring stuff that works well.

 

[WFL]

I don't remember those combos, I'll have to watch that video again o.o

I think most IC players just try to remove their opponent's stock ASAP because the ICs can be gimped so easily, and it's hard to set up those awesome combos. But maybe that's just me, I'm a very generic textbook kinda guy and I just do boring stuff that works well.

Thats exactly what I try to do. I was playing some friendlies with my neighbor who has a pretty good fox and right off the start I ice block chase to a grab and set up for wobbling and took his first and second stock in under 2 minutes without being harmed.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I suck at wobbling ;_;

 

[choknater]

^ i suck at wobbling too ^

desynch combos are awesome. infinite possibilities was a great video, and only touched the tip of the ice berg. i myself have created many, as i don't like to cg and wobble in friendlies.

for desynch combos, you shouldn't limit yourself to what you see in videos. get a feel for the trajectory that each move sends the opponent at, according to their weight/fallspeed etc, and ways that they can counter/stop your desynch combo. they are very fun and diversify your game, ESPECIALLY against characters like marth who can easily gimp ic's just as much as they can gimp him.

since wobbling is getting banned in major tournaments, cg is a great option... but with smash DI among medium-weight characters and light characters' natural abilities to escape cg's, grab desynch combos are the next best option.

just practice stuff against lvl 1 cpu's of all shapes and sizes and stages. heck, i even have my own grab combos against jigglypuff.

choknater combo: dthrow, dair, dair, fsmash (very fast, the last fsmash is optional and can be dodged... but it looks awesome when pulled off ;D) works against floaties who think they can escape CG lol

that's just one example. a popular starter that chudat uses a lot is dthrow usmash.

don't be afraid to experiment. ic's is not all cg wobble wavesmash and uairs. there's MUCH MORE to them, and you can't do well UNLESS you start inventing your own techniques. and BY inventing your own techniques, you gain greater respect for inventive players like chu.

 

[Lixivium]

Chaingrabbing is generally more reliable but I agree, desynched combos are so AWESOME. You should also embrace tech chasing out of throws, instead of limiting yourself to "true" combos like the ones at the end of Infinite Possibilities.

Some combos I like to use:

D-throw -> Up-smash -> follow up (Chu uses these a lot)
D-throw -> reverse D-air -> Up-tilt -> Up-air (Wobbles combo)
F-throw -> ice block chaser (suggested by Wobbles)
F-throw -> Nanapault (my personal favorite, not always effective though)

F-throw combos are good because most people instinctively DI away.

 

[mood4food77]

desynch only when it's wide open, i only desynch for block chasing and during CTs, but other than that i really don't see why you should desynch, i mean the HO is your best friend

 

[choknater]

D-throw -> reverse D-air -> Up-tilt -> Up-air (Wobbles combo)

wow i really like that one, i wanna try it. ^_^ thx

to people talking about combos from just pure desynching: you're right, it's risky and pointless most of the time. the desynch combos that we're talking about are normally set up from grabs which is one of the only safe desynchs to set up a combo from. not that you can't set up a combo from other desynchs... it's just really hard.

combos you set up from usmash and dash attacks are better off synched anyway

 

[Speedsk8er]

Chaingrabbing is generally more reliable but I agree, desynched combos are so AWESOME. You should also embrace tech chasing out of throws, instead of limiting yourself to "true" combos like the ones at the end of Infinite Possibilities.

Yeah, you're right. I am a firm believer that the Ice Climbers have more potential than any other character in this game simply because there's ****ing two of em! Yes, even more potential than Fox or Falco. None of us have ascended to the point where we can think of them as two separate characters though. I'd like to take IC to the next level but I'm nowhere NEAR as technical at this game as you guys are.

Not to mention with a) Wobbling being banned in tourneys and b) smash DI being used on our chaingrabs, it would be nice to mix things up.


As a side note, I used a freaking bad-*** desynch combo. Popo Dthrow > Nana Fair > PDsmash >Nanapult blizzard > WD PUtilt > NUsmash

It'll NEVER happen again, lol.

 

[Lixivium]

Yeah, you're right. I am a firm believer that the Ice Climbers have more potential than any other character in this game simply because there's ****ing two of em! Yes, even more potential than Fox or Falco. None of us have ascended to the point where we can think of them as two separate characters though. I'd like to take IC to the next level but I'm nowhere NEAR as technical at this game as you guys are.

Let's not get carried away now. IC's are not top tier and all the desynching in the world isn't going to change that. Desynching is a nice mixup and sometimes a nice setup as well, but it's noever going to be gamebreaking.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Let's not get carried away now. IC's are not top tier and all the desynching in the world isn't going to change that. Desynching is a nice mixup and sometimes a nice setup as well, but it's noever going to be gamebreaking.

I'm not saying they're top tier, lol. I know they're mid-tier for a reason. I'm jsut saying that, IMO, they have more potential than any other character and if we can actually utilize that potential, IC will ****.

The difference between a character like Fox's potential and IC potential is that Fox demands an overwhelming amount of muscle memory and lightning fast fingers. Frame-sensitive button inputs are what spacies are all about. IC's potential is more demanding on your mind and thinking in two places at once. Of course, that's only if you're desynching and not doing typical chainthrows.

 

[dj asakura]

well, if anyone ever saw the old Domo videos (Japanese IC Player) he relied almost solely on desynch combos and mindgames that go with that.

I think if someone were to take the general IC strategy and work really hard on mixing in the extreme desynch game you could a solid and entirely unpredictable IC's.

Now granted it would take some sick discovery and insane desynch experimentation to find something that would really make the IC's THAT much better, i think that it could be possible, not at all likely, but possible. cause lets be honest, you see kids (well not kids, but you know what i mean) like chu winning with what he does, so why change something that works so well?

we'll see, something may eventually happen, even if it takes till IC's are worked with in Brawl (assuming they make the cut)

 

[Speedsk8er]

D-throw -> reverse D-air -> Up-tilt -> Up-air (Wobbles combo)[/B]

I didn't know that Wobbles thought of that combo. I thought that I just made it up yesterday. Well, I tried to do it yesterday but I can never get reverse Dair right.

I LOVE using Utilt in Desynch combos.

Here's one I did yesterday.

Dthrow -> Nanafairspike -> Popo Fair(to pop them back up into the air)-> Nana Blizzard -> Dsmash
I sometimes screw up the spacing of the second Fair and send them behind me though. Also, I tried Wavedashing after the nanablizzard into a utilt but the character was in thier Ground laying position so it missed. I'm thinking of replacing Popo fair with an ICe block ->NanaBlizzard ->Utilt, etc(I think the block would make them stand instead of popping them off the ground). I practiced it on a multitude of characters yesterday except for floaties but I think the popo Block version would work on floaties as opposed to the Pop Fair version because they could possibly recover and knock me out of it.

Here's something else I did yesterday:
Turnaround Desynch(Popo FtiltNanajab)-> Nana blizzard-> Popo Fsmash -> Nana dash -> Popo Fair spike
The only reason that the Popo fair spike worked was because my roommate DIed behind Nana. I couldn't follow up after that either because Nana was outside of her box. >_<



Dthrow(can possibly Dsmash in addition to Dthrow if your timing is good enough) - Nanafair spike -> Utilt -> NanaFair spike -> Utilt -> Nana fair spike -> Utilt -> Bair/Uair

This combo only works on Big fellas(Bowser, DK, and maybe, MAYBE Ganon). I dunno whether or not it'll work on a human though because of DI. Simple, repetitive, yet still awesome and deals alot of damage. I once got about 4 Fair/Utilt repetions on Bowser! That's 80+ damage! I think that if they DI left or right, you could wavedash to Utilt. I've yet to try this on a human but I think they can tech before you get the Utilt off.

just a cool looking but possibly ineffective combo.
Dthrow -> Nananair -> Popo nair -> Nananair -> repeat as needed -> Nanapult blizzard...?

LOL I once pulled an opponent from one end of FD to the next with this. Note, it was only a computer though. I'm not sure that it'll work on a human because isn't Nair's stun time really low? It looks unbearably cool though. I think that it'll only work on med/floaty characters at mid-low percentages and possibly fastfallers at mid-high percentages. It's difficult to get the long jump going though. I find it exceptionally difficult to short hop with IC for some reason.


Bthrow Bair is a pretty nice KO move. Also, I tried pulling off Piston combos but I always have difficulty doing them. Either my finger is always a little too slow to get to the C-stick or I always charge the smash a little with the A-button.

Also, I make an effort to NOT L-cancel any aerials during a Desynch combo because that makes Nana/popo throw up their sheild, resulting in a resynch.

Also, it REALLY sucks that when an enemy Di's behind us in a desynch combo, the combo freaking ends. Is there any way that you can make Nana attack in that direction on something? >_<

I'm also trying to work on setting up desynch combos without a grab desynch.

All in all, I can feel my desynch game stepping up, I guess. I just need to master other forms of desynching aside from the standards.

 

[Speedsk8er]

*double post*

A few things I've incorporated into my game.

Short hop fast fall desynch -> Popo block -> Nanapult blizzard
Good approach? You've got a block coming at you from the ground, nana flying at you with a blizzard and Popo following behind her. All in all, the enemy has three things to worry about and one could always lead to another(you get hit by the block, you're stunned long enough for nana's blizzard to catch you, poo then grabs you out of the blizzard). Not to mention, if they somehow dodge the first two, I'm sure you will be able to retaliate and have popo catch them with something. This isn't meant to be their only approach but it is a good surprise tactic. I screw this up alot though because I find it hard to shorthop with IC. Also, sometimes I screw up my nanapult and she jumps in place. It's alot tougher than it used to be for some reason.



Dsmash Dtilt Desynch? I did it yesterday once and I think it could be quite useful. The timing maybe be tricky though(try a 6 frame difference). Just vary the timing of your dsmash so that popo downtilts and Nana Dsmashes. Actually, yesterday, I think that I made Nana Dsmash instead though. ****it, I should have written this down. >_< I'll do some experimenting today.

Still working on stepping my whiffed grab desynch game up. I always screw it up in a match. I don't think I'm adaptive enough to use it consistently because the moment I miss a grab, I instinctively shield instead of desynching. When I do land it though, it's really useful.

 

[Binx]

I try to play my IC game really solid, and I usually only do a smash during my grabs and sometimes at lower damage I will do a dthrow dair against some characters once or twice before doing the smash, right now I cant count on myself not to mess it up or my opponents to not DI it correctly.

Lately ive really been liking random dash dance nana blizards and I found a way to but have not perfected dash dancing and having popo or nana do an ice block then iceblock chasing or nana pulting directly afterwards, only works when they are far away so maybe a spamming mario or fox but otherwise I dont know if you could really count on being far enough away to do it.

 

[Baha]

Where can I find this video you people talk about!?

edit: the infintie possibilities one.

 

[Binx]

youtube... the same as every single other video ever. If you check youtube or google video and cant find it then ask.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I found infinite possibilities on google video.

[edit=more on the Dsmash Dtilt desynch. Yeah, that thing is impossible. I don't know how I did it yesterday but I can't do it at all now. Disregard that. >_< ]

 

[Speedsk8er]

*double post >_<*

Is there anyway to get nana to turn around when an opponent DIs behind you in a combo? this is agitating.