There are some good points in this video, but I don't think it hits the nail quite on the head when it comes to why people hate Cloud. Sure, people do hate Sans because of exposure and some people do probably hate Cloud just because it's Cloud. However, I don't think that's the main reason, let alone a major reason, why people hate Cloud. Let's say, for example, Shulk was in Cloud's position at the moment. Shulk had little exposure before Smash and, nowadays, Shulk is more famous for his appearance in Smash than he is for his appearance in Xenoblade. However, despite this, I have full confidence that Shulk would still be absolutely hated if he were as good as Cloud. People would complain that the Monado Arts are broken and that he has too much range. I don't really think that it matters whether a character is as popular as Mario or as obscure as Lucas. If they're good, people will find a reason to hate them. It doesn't matter if they're the most lovable character of all time. They will get hate. In terms of Cloud, I honestly think his hate is due to two major reasons:
1. Cloud is a middle finger to the swordsman archetype. The swordsman archetype is one that trades attack speed and occasionally mobility for very long attack range. They thrive fighting at mid-range, where they're too close for the opponent to harass them with projectiles, but just far enough away so that the opponent can't hit them with any of their attacks, which are usually much faster. The ideal way to defeat a swordsman archetype character is either camp them with projectiles and force them to approach due to usually lacking any of their own or get up in their face and combo them silly due to their subpar at best frame data not allowing them to break out as easy as some other characters. Cloud has the second best overall range in the game (beaten only by Shulk). However, unlike Shulk and Ike (third best overall range), Cloud has amazing frame data and outstanding mobility (Shulk may get significantly better mobility from Jump and Speed Art, but Cloud always has access to his amazing mobility). If you try to sit back and camp Cloud, he's just going to charge limit, which basically forces you to approach him. If you try to get up in Cloud's face, he can just hit you with a frame 7 Up Air that has a stupidly large hitbox and autocancels in a short hop. Heck, three of Cloud's aerials autocancel in a short hop while the other two autocancel in a full hop with VERY lenient autocancel levels! Compare that to Shulk and Ike. Ike has two aerials that autocancel in a short hop, two that autocancel in a full hop, and one that doesn't autocancel unless you double jump. Also, these have very strict autocancel windows. Most of them only allow you to be one or two frames off, requiring precise execution or else you'll be stuck in a good bit of landing lag. Shulk's aerials, on the other hand, don't autocancel at all! Not a single one! He has to make use of MALLC, a glitch/exploit not intended to be in the game by the developers, just to simulate the effects of autocanceling. MALLC also requires very precise input and timing or else Shulk will face a hefty amount of landing lag (bar NAir). Not only that, but Cloud kind of makes all other swordfighters obsolete. Not just Shulk and Ike, who tend to be considered low and low-mid tier respectively, but even swordfighters like Marth and Corrin, who are often ranked between high-mid and high tier, are outclassed by him. Name an attribute of a swordsman and Cloud usually does it better. Marth's insane kill power with tipper? Cloud can do that with limits and F-Smash. Shulk's amazing mobility through the use of Monado Arts? Cloud has some of the best mobility in the game and, while Jump and Speed Art still make Shulk faster then Cloud, Cloud's isn't temporary. Roy's amazing startup on his moves? Cloud has that, plus way more range, plus none of the horrible endlag Roy suffers from. He really kind of makes every other swordfighter obsolete.
2. Cloud's learning curve... This, in my opinion, is THE biggest problem with Cloud. He requires so little effort to use and is one of the most rewarding characters in the game. I actually used to main Cloud due to the fact that FF7 is one of my favorite games of all time. I'm thrilled that Cloud Strife somehow made his way into Smash because I love Cloud as a character IN FF7. Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children may have demoted him to a moody and tortured prettyboy, but Cloud in the original FF7 is an amazing character and one of my personal favorites. I absolutely love playing as Cloud because I'm playing as freaking Cloud. However, back when I mained him, it slowly became a chore to use him. It wasn't as fun as it used to be after awhile. It felt like everything was being spoonfed to me. This might've been because I decided to main him when he first came out and people didn't really know how to fight him yet. In addition to that, ever since I had started to pick up Cloud, my Shulk had been starting to look very sloppy. I would play much worse than I knew I was capable of. I would struggle in matchups that I had previously had no trouble in (most notably, my friend's Yoshi, who has plenty of experience fighting against my Shulk). As a result, I decided to drop Cloud down to a "fun character" because I didn't feel challenged playing as him and it was having a negative impact on a character that I had poured a year and a half's worth of training into at that point, found much more interesting, more enjoyable to play, and, most importantly, he's my favorite character in all of media. The reason I went on this little mini-rant is because my experiences maining Cloud are what really made me realize this. This isn't as much of a problem for the top of the top players, but for a good majority of smash players who lie within the lower to lower-mid regions of competitive proficiency, it is. Cloud strives off of his opponents making mistakes because a mistake made is a free Limit Cross Slash, F-Smash, etc. So, when Cloud is used against people who naturally are prone to making significantly more mistakes in their play than the best players in the world, he gets many more opportunities to kill you at 70%. However, I know all of the "git good" comments are going to come swarming in response to this. Hold off for a moment. This is more than just "gitting good". Look at Mewtwo. Mewtwo is a character with an insane combo game, lots of range, an amazing projectile, superb mobility, and devastating KO power. Mewtwo can kill opponents just as early, if not earlier, than Cloud off of the tiniest of errors. So, why isn't Mewtwo an issue? Because, due to being a glass cannon, he's a very technical and difficult character to play. He's not a character you practice for twenty minutes and then start beating people with. Mewtwo requires a good amount of dedication and practice before you can even start to win consistently with him. For a character that has a very high learning curve, requires a lot of technical ability, and is a very high risk to use in the first place due to being so big and light, having him be able to kill at 70% is justified. On the other hand, does ANY part of what I just said apply to Cloud? Cloud isn't difficult to use in the slightest. The only technical skill Cloud requires is pressing down B. At a low and mid level, Cloud can easily carry those who use him with stuff like lenient autocancel windows, a move that basically forces opponents to approach him, etc. Especially when his ONLY huge weakness is a crappy recovery which limit negates. He doesn't require hours of practice before you can win consistently with him. Yet, despite all of this, he still can kill you off of the tiniest of errors at stupidly early percents, just like Mewtwo. It isn't the fact that he can do it that's the problem. If Cloud were as hard to play as say Ryu, Shulk, Peach, etc., then I wouldn't find it as an issue. But, as it stands, Cloud is arguably the most rewarding character in the game while having one of the lowest learning curves in the game. As a result, so many people look at Cloud, realize that they can get rewarded more for doing less, and main him. I'll end this with an analogy. Maining Cloud is like getting paid $100,000 a year to simply get dressed in the morning. Almost all of the world's population can accomplish it and everybody wants to do it because nearly every other job pays less and requires much more effort.
I honestly do think Cloud deserves a BIT of a nerf. I don't think he deserves to get the Bayonetta treatment. If anything, he just needs to be harder to use so his insane strengths are justified.
- Maybe give Limit Charge more end lag when you cancel it? Or, how about it works in a way where every time you bring it up and cancel it excessively, each cancel adds a bit more endlag than the last.
- Make the aerials have stricter autocancel windows. Cloud's aerials can still autocancel and stuff. Just don't make them insultingly easy to do so, especially when they're arguably the best set of aerials in the game. In addition to that, maybe increase the landing lag of each aerial. That way, the aerials not only have to be used more optimally, but Cloud is also left more vulnerable if he gets caught in landing lag.
- Tone down F-Smash a bit. Limit Cross Slash can stay, but F-Smash is a bit too strong.
In summary, I LOVE the fact that Cloud is in the game. It's a dream come true scenario to many people. Sure, he does get a lot of hate and I'm sure some of it is from "4 Glory" players who think any character that can beat them is OP. However, most people don't hate Cloud because he's Cloud or because it's fun to. A majority of people hate Cloud because he has next to none of the flaws a swordsman should have while retaining the strengths on steroids and he's probably the easiest character in the game to play. I don't think he's OP per say. His results at a top level definitely prove that. However, just because a character isn't OP, doesn't mean they can't have problems that deserve some fixing. For example, in Melee, Peach isn't broken by any means, but she still shouldn't have a down smash that can do 70%. If Cloud got a few small nerfs to certain parts of him, I think the community would look upon him much differently.
JSSpecialist
