yourmother
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2008
- Messages
- 21
OK I just kind of wanted a place for some open discussion about Dedede's air game, which seems to be one of his biggest strong points, once you get used to it, so I'll start off with some of my observations on the subject.
First off, D3, while aerially mobile, is kind of slow in the air. What this means is that while he doesn't have any trouble recovering from getting hit or jumping off to edgeguard, he does have a little trouble from time to time maneuvering in the air. His multiple, relatively short jumps, give more aerially quick characters like a yoshi or a lucas/ness a fairly simple time maneuvering around his aerials while attempting to spike/edgeguard/whatever.
Up-B recovery - I don't really see any reason to cancel this if you're not going for an edge-grab. If you're landing on the stage, the recovery is almost the same if you cancel it, and you have a chance to disrupt their attempt to punish you with your stars if they don't do their spacing right. Usually I go for the ledge-grab anyways, but I don't see a reason to cancel it if you're not.
OK, on to the actual aerials.
Fair - this seemed to me like a very promising move when I first started using D3 until I realized that the hitbox is not what it seems like when you first start. It's got a huge knockback, good damage, great priority, and comes out pretty frickin fast, but in spite of swinging the hammer down below himself, it doesn't hit below him, and actually only hits directly in front of him. This all but eliminates it from short hopping strategies. You can still use it on the downside of a non-FFed short hop, but this is kind of cumbersome, and not reccomended. This move is good for killing people on edgeguards or in other air to air situations, but that seems to be about the extent of it, and it requires a little more precise placement than it would seem.
Dair - Again, seemed a little better than it was, although this remains a really good move. This is one of my favorite ways to rack up damage with D3, and can even be comboed into an Uair at certain percentages due to the strange fact that it hits the opponent up instead of down, but again, it can't really be used effectively on a short-hop. Even on a non-FFed short hop, he hits the ground before the attack finishes, meaning the opponent doesn't take the all important last hit(the one with the knockback/stun), and dedede will have a much longer recovery animation than he normally would, meaning you will almost always get punished if you short-hop this against someone who knows what's up. Again, good priority and a disjointed hitbox make this a relatively safe move to use air-to-air, or you can use it against grounded opponents on a full jump, although you will almost never get all the hits in.
Bair - This is really his money move in the air. This has good knockback, not quite the same as his Fair but it makes up for it in other ways. First off, this move is really fast, in all respects. It comes out fast, it ends fast, you recover fast if you hit the ground with it out. This makes it his best multi-purpose air move IMO. At low percentages this can be used in a wall-of-pain type strategy to carry your opponent with the kicks, although the knockback becomes a bit too heavy fairly quickly. It can be used in shorthops, particularly with the dash-reversing and FFing strategies for some of his fastest offense due to the fact that it has almost no recovery time if you just smash yourself into the ground with a FF. I spam this quite a bit.
Nair - Kind of a strange move, but useful in its own way. The hitbox is kind of small, a little smaller than it seems like it should be in my experience, and the priority is not too great, but much like the Bair, it comes out really fast and recovers really fast upon hitting the ground. Although it's pretty easy to hit D3 out of this if you see it coming, the trick is to use it in mixups, particularly with his Bair. If your enemy sees you doing dash-reverse-Short hop -FFed Bair over and over, it can really throw them off if you just Shop forward and then right when you're over them drop into a quick Nair. The other thing that makes this useful, ironically, is that it has some of the least knockback of any of D3's moves, making it one of very few combo starters. After you hit it, combo it into a Utilt for some serious dmg. You have to work for it, but it can be worth it to land this move.
Uair - Much like his Dair, this has a disjointed hitbox and pretty high priority, also knocks the opponent upwards. This move obviously isn't going to be used on a Short hop since he sticks his hammer way up above himself. This is pretty much your only option for pursuing someone who you've hit upwards with something like a Dsmash, or someone who's just on a platform above you. Racks up some good damage, and knocks up enough to kill at high percentages. I mean really, you can only use it when they're above you, so do it.
Anyways, this is meant to open up some discussion on what could be one of the most powerful parts of Dedede's game, so anybody else have observations?
First off, D3, while aerially mobile, is kind of slow in the air. What this means is that while he doesn't have any trouble recovering from getting hit or jumping off to edgeguard, he does have a little trouble from time to time maneuvering in the air. His multiple, relatively short jumps, give more aerially quick characters like a yoshi or a lucas/ness a fairly simple time maneuvering around his aerials while attempting to spike/edgeguard/whatever.
Up-B recovery - I don't really see any reason to cancel this if you're not going for an edge-grab. If you're landing on the stage, the recovery is almost the same if you cancel it, and you have a chance to disrupt their attempt to punish you with your stars if they don't do their spacing right. Usually I go for the ledge-grab anyways, but I don't see a reason to cancel it if you're not.
OK, on to the actual aerials.
Fair - this seemed to me like a very promising move when I first started using D3 until I realized that the hitbox is not what it seems like when you first start. It's got a huge knockback, good damage, great priority, and comes out pretty frickin fast, but in spite of swinging the hammer down below himself, it doesn't hit below him, and actually only hits directly in front of him. This all but eliminates it from short hopping strategies. You can still use it on the downside of a non-FFed short hop, but this is kind of cumbersome, and not reccomended. This move is good for killing people on edgeguards or in other air to air situations, but that seems to be about the extent of it, and it requires a little more precise placement than it would seem.
Dair - Again, seemed a little better than it was, although this remains a really good move. This is one of my favorite ways to rack up damage with D3, and can even be comboed into an Uair at certain percentages due to the strange fact that it hits the opponent up instead of down, but again, it can't really be used effectively on a short-hop. Even on a non-FFed short hop, he hits the ground before the attack finishes, meaning the opponent doesn't take the all important last hit(the one with the knockback/stun), and dedede will have a much longer recovery animation than he normally would, meaning you will almost always get punished if you short-hop this against someone who knows what's up. Again, good priority and a disjointed hitbox make this a relatively safe move to use air-to-air, or you can use it against grounded opponents on a full jump, although you will almost never get all the hits in.
Bair - This is really his money move in the air. This has good knockback, not quite the same as his Fair but it makes up for it in other ways. First off, this move is really fast, in all respects. It comes out fast, it ends fast, you recover fast if you hit the ground with it out. This makes it his best multi-purpose air move IMO. At low percentages this can be used in a wall-of-pain type strategy to carry your opponent with the kicks, although the knockback becomes a bit too heavy fairly quickly. It can be used in shorthops, particularly with the dash-reversing and FFing strategies for some of his fastest offense due to the fact that it has almost no recovery time if you just smash yourself into the ground with a FF. I spam this quite a bit.
Nair - Kind of a strange move, but useful in its own way. The hitbox is kind of small, a little smaller than it seems like it should be in my experience, and the priority is not too great, but much like the Bair, it comes out really fast and recovers really fast upon hitting the ground. Although it's pretty easy to hit D3 out of this if you see it coming, the trick is to use it in mixups, particularly with his Bair. If your enemy sees you doing dash-reverse-Short hop -FFed Bair over and over, it can really throw them off if you just Shop forward and then right when you're over them drop into a quick Nair. The other thing that makes this useful, ironically, is that it has some of the least knockback of any of D3's moves, making it one of very few combo starters. After you hit it, combo it into a Utilt for some serious dmg. You have to work for it, but it can be worth it to land this move.
Uair - Much like his Dair, this has a disjointed hitbox and pretty high priority, also knocks the opponent upwards. This move obviously isn't going to be used on a Short hop since he sticks his hammer way up above himself. This is pretty much your only option for pursuing someone who you've hit upwards with something like a Dsmash, or someone who's just on a platform above you. Racks up some good damage, and knocks up enough to kill at high percentages. I mean really, you can only use it when they're above you, so do it.
Anyways, this is meant to open up some discussion on what could be one of the most powerful parts of Dedede's game, so anybody else have observations?
. But other than that, nair has good pop-up after a SHFF which can lead to multiple utilts. After utilts, you can run an early uair which has a chance to beat out sword users and pop-up after its final hit.