DeDeDe Stage Discussion

[hyhy]

Continuing on from the section I started writing in my guide, which stages do you feel are the strongest/weakest for the king.

The overall points I made were:

• We don't necessarily like stages with angled floors (see Yoshi's Island) since it can make Gordos tricky to predict.
• We definitely don't like stages with flat undersides (see Lylat Cruise and Miiverse) since it limits our recovery from Super DeDeDe Jump.

Stage size also needs to be considered since I don't really know much about it, I'd assume that we like bigger stages since our KO potential is so strong.

Otherwise, this needs more looking into, tell me what you think!

 

[shrooby]

Angled floors can be useful if you actually know what you're getting into. 'Cause then we have the chance to use the trickiness of the Gordos to our advantage.
Take Yoshi's Island on the 3DS, for instance. If you hit a Gordo upward onto the slant which is just on the ledge, the Gordo will actually make a really wide arc off the stage. It can potentially catch recovering foes off guard if know that the option is there.
If you don't know how Gordos behave on the slope of a given stage, then, yeah, I'd say you should avoid it, but if you do know exactly how it'll work, it may be something to consider. It's worth experimenting with before we just straight-up label it a disadvantage.
Though, I assume that's why you said we don't "necessarily" like stages like that.

 

[Reverbo]

I agree with shrooby about the angled floors. I like Yoshi's Island for the angled floors with gordos, it gives them more unpredictability. I also like that stage with D3 because it's small and it lets D3 easily close the distance to get grabs and such.

 

[Rajikaru]

Stages with more than one platform are kind of iffy on Dedede, as they severely limit his options with Gordo. Take Battlefield, for example. His best spacing option, upswing Gordo tosses, are hampered because they go higher than the 2 middle fallthroughs, limiting his ability to keep space (the Gordo is just bouncing like a basketball being dribbled on the paltform instead of bouncing in front of him). His best stage is without a doubt FD/Omega stages, as they allow him enough space to make the most of his Gordos and space effectively.

 

[Jabejazz]

• We don't necessarily like stages with angled floors (see Yoshi's Island) since it can make Gordos tricky to predict.

I have to disagree here. Unpredictability gives a lot of options to us, since the unpredictability factor (should) only apply to your opponent, as you should have a solid grasp on your Gordo Throw. Not knowing when the gordo will hit means the opponent is more likely to shield it, which is definitely a win for our approach.

The current Apex stagelist is as follows :

Neutrals :

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpicks :

Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Duck Hunt
Halberd
Kongo Jungle 64(???)
Lylat Cruise
Town And City
Omega Variants

The bad stages :

Battlefield
Castle Siege
Halberd
Kongo Jungle 64

The MU dependant stages :

Final Destination
Duck Hunt

The pretty alright stages :

Lylat Cruise
Delfino Plaza
Smashville
Town And City


Why the bad stages ?

These stages either severely limit our options at neutral, (more than usual, that is) because of the layout of the stage (Halberd, BF), or gives a solid defensive position to whoever's in favor, which is usually not you (CS, KJ64).

Battlefield is extremely small, and rushdown characters will make short work of you. The lower platform are extremely low, and your huge frame doesn't let you camp under them properly. Many platforms not far apart from each other combined with our horrendous platform game makes this stage really unfavorable to us.

Halberd has the same issue with the huge middle platform, and our nerf to UTilt makes us not being able to kill of the top early with the help of a low ceiling. It's not necessarily as bad as BF, as the stage transitions and gives okay layouts, but it's not a great stage to go on by any means.

CS has both a pseudo BF layout on its first transition, and a horrendous statue layout that gives solid defensive position. Can technically be used by used should we have a stock lead, but the general idea of us being at a % deficit makes me want to avoid this stage. Although the slanted FD transition at the end can be interesting.

DK64 is pure jank. Characters with good air mobility can completely abuse it by stalling using the bottom barrel. I have no idea why the hell this stage is allowed. It'd otherwise be a pretty solid map for us, but the barrel really kills it.

Why the MU dependant stages?

Both FD and DH can be alright against rushdown characters/characters without projectiles; giving us reasonable breathing room. It gets pretty horrendous against characters like Link, however, for very obvious reasons.
DH is FD with jank; although solid knowledge on the stage can really make it interesting.

Why the pretty alright stages?

These stages give a large layout for breathing room; platforms to work around camping, slant to mess with Gordos, I'd add Skyloft and Wuhu to the list, as both of them are actually super interesting for us, especially Skyloft with the Gordo game.

Our UpB now snapping the ledge makes Lylat Cruise a much better option than it was in Brawl. SDing rarely happens anymore, and the slant gives solid unpredictability to our Gordos.

Smashville and TaC are both really staple stages that everyone and their mother like. It doesn't confer any serious advantage, but it's not a crippling stage by any means either. Only downside I find is the possibility of messing with our edge guards because of the moving platforms.

 

[shrooby]

Glad to see our views basically perfectly line up.

I've personally found Delfino, Skyloft and Town and City to my most consistent stages with Dedede. The former two especially against projectile-heavy characters. It allows for nice mix-ups that just aren't available on more static stages.
I've always been biased towards transforming stages~

 

[toadster101]

Lylat Cruise is horrible. If your head is even slightly underneath the bottom platform while trying to perform an up B, you WILL get hit. From my experience, it's the only stage in the game like this. We're obviously at a disadvantage on stages that have multiple platforms, since it's easier to get stuck. You can phase through the platforms with a neutral air, but nothing is worse than getting hit by repeated up airs because you can't move.

 

[Jabejazz]

Some Omega variants have slim platforms you can't go through, Halberd, Lylat Cruise for instance come to mind.

That being said, Lylat's layout is actually super interesting overall, I wouldn't call it horrible.

 

[Rajikaru]

Some Omega variants have slim platforms you can't go through, Halberd, Lylat Cruise for instance come to mind.

That being said, Lylat's layout is actually super interesting overall, I wouldn't call it horrible.

It is. It's incredibly small, focuses more on vertical control than horizontal (which Dedede is absolute crap at), and it's almost impossible to recover without sweetspotting the corner during an UpB.

 

[Genghis_Connor]

I actually think KJ64 is one of our best stages. The angles allow you to completely lock down the middle of the stage with Gordos, as an upward-angled one is going to bounce between the two angled sections of the stage. Your typical Gordo Throw becomes a Bouncing Gordo, and you still have the option to throw out Gordos normally. Sure, the barrel is bad, but learning how to control the angles of the stage is a huge boon. You can even use the top-left and top-right platforms like the angles at the edges of Yoshi's Island on the 3DS as edgeguarding tools, if you're that high up when the opponent is offstage. This is the one stage where I allow myself to use Gordo Throw in neutral.

Sure, stalling with the barrel can be a problem, but it's really not that terrible.

EDIT: Also, Lylat eats Gordos for breakfast. It's great in theory because of the slant, but in practice, the only thing that happens is that you get your Gordos to disappear as soon as the touch the stage. Bouncing them off platforms works, but pray that you never hit the actual stage.

 

[atomicblast360]

So I didn't see a stage discussion thread for dedede anywhere, So what are generally considered the worst stages to go with for Dedede and the best? For the most part I like smashville, FD, and Battlefield the best, it kinda depends on who I'm fighting. I really don't like delfino, lylatt, or skyloft (when it's legal) much, Duck hunt and T&C are okay to me. But what are generally the best stages to counterpick, ban, and start on with Dedede?

 

[dean.]

We used to have http://smashboards.com/threads/384094/ but it hasn't been active for a while. @ shrooby merge threads maybe?

My personal pick is Smashville as it's the shortest ledge-to-ledge; being big and immobile it means we don't have to move far to reach an opponent and our hitboxes cover a good amount of the stage. Lylat Cruise could also be OK if you're not bad at recovering for similar reasons, but I haven't played on it much since Smashville is my #1 choice and no-one really bans it except Little Mac. I don't pick Delfino Plaza personally but I do get counterpicked there a lot and have a very strong record so maybe that's OK too.

I generally ban Battlefield but there's no real reason for that.

 

[MioTinto]

BF could always be a solid option when fighting projectile users, as camping will get harder to them too. While Gordos are all cool and dandy, it is important to remember that midrange is D3's element.

 

[SalsaSavant]

What would you say is the best Omega for Dedede?

It's got to have the right ratio of Gordo stick ease/flexibility to Dedecide potential, and preferably not be friendly to wall jumpers.

 

[toadster101]

Worst is Lylat Cruise. No exceptions. If your accuracy is ever so slightly off, you will bonk your head underneath the platform.

 

[manueluno]

Worst is Lylat Cruise. No exceptions. If your accuracy is ever so slightly off, you will bonk your head underneath the platform.

Agreed.

 

[shrooby]

Yeah, I'll be combining the threads. In the future, try to avoid creating duplicates of threads.
It makes the forum look a bit cluttered and unorganized. Though, since you said you had looked for it and, I guess, just didn't see the existing thread, that's fine. No harm done.


And lol the Lylat hate is real.
If you just practice and get used to ledge, you'll get the angles to approach it from down.
Otherwise, it has potential to be an interesting stage with the slopes and angles. Gordo acts wonky on Lylat. A good kind of wonky, usually. Though, it's common for Gordo to get caught on the slant (I guess that's what happens?) and just disappear.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

What would you say is the best Omega for Dedede?

It's got to have the right ratio of Gordo stick ease/flexibility to Dedecide potential, and preferably not be friendly to wall jumpers.

I'd say Omega Gaur Plains. The rounded bottom causes Dedede to slide along the bottom and not bonk his head while at the same time preventing walljumpers from recovering and giving space to spit during Dededecide.

 

[Genghis_Connor]

Yeah Gordos are weird on Lylat. I think the movement of the stage is what causes Gordos to disappear. If the stage is moving upward, they'll bounce 3 times in super quick succession and just disappear.

 

[AlextheTwin]

I like FD when we clearly have the spacing advantage - DK, Bowser, G&W, kirby, ect. For projectile campers like pacman, megaman, duck hunt definitely battlefield. Platforms make it harder to camp Dedede. I'm unsure of which stage is best when Dedede is up against fast characters like shiek or sonic and I'd love suggestions.

 

[AlextheTwin]

Worst is Lylat Cruise. No exceptions. If your accuracy is ever so slightly off, you will bonk your head underneath the platform.

F'n hate that stage with a passion. Although I've gotten used to it and gotten better. It definitely hurts DDD's recovery more than most since it is completely vertical.

 

[toadster101]

Yeah, I'll be combining the threads. In the future, try to avoid creating duplicates of threads.
It makes the forum look a bit cluttered and unorganized. Though, since you said you had looked for it and, I guess, just didn't see the existing thread, that's fine. No harm done.


And lol the Lylat hate is real.
If you just practice and get used to ledge, you'll get the angles to approach it from down.
Otherwise, it has potential to be an interesting stage with the slopes and angles. Gordo acts wonky on Lylat. A good kind of wonky, usually. Though, it's common for Gordo to get caught on the slant (I guess that's what happens?) and just disappear.

"Getting used to it" is not good enough. You're given zero room for error, and you can't waste precious time fighting with the stage. The wonky Gordo behavior is interesting, but that alone doesn't offset the negatives. Omega Port Town is kinda bad too.

 

[AlextheTwin]

I like FD against any non-camping characters who DDD isn't forced to approach. Against projectile spammers who can camp DDD I like Battlefield. I agree with others that it does mess with gordos, but it will make it much harder for the opponent camp as well so I feel overall that's a favorable trade.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

I find myself hating T&C more and more every time I play on it. The platforms that hang off the edges during the stationary periods really screw over on our edge-guarding and a bit of our off-stage play. Same kind of goes for Smashville, but not as much. There are much better options, I feel.

I decided to give @ shrooby a shot, and uh, yeah. I am won over. Lylat is actually a really fun stage for the Dedes. If you just have some self-control and use your jumps rather than going straight for the Up-B, it's definitely a good stage in general. Gordos are super wacky, but predictable if you know the physics of the game well enough. Also, his side and up smashes cover a LOT of area, making it hard for opponents to hang out on the platforms.

Also, the Dedede-spits are real on Lylat. Like.... Really really real.

I promise you that if you give Lylat a chance, you'll be cruisin' in no time.

 

[SalsaSavant]

I find myself hating T&C more and more every time I play on it. The platforms that hang off the edges during the stationary periods really screw over on our edge-guarding and a bit of our off-stage play. Same kind of goes for Smashville, but not as much. There are much better options, I feel.

I decided to give @ shrooby a shot, and uh, yeah. I am won over. Lylat is actually a really fun stage for the Dedes. If you just have some self-control and use your jumps rather than going straight for the Up-B, it's definitely a good stage in general. Gordos are super wacky, but predictable if you know the physics of the game well enough. Also, his side and up smashes cover a LOT of area, making it hard for opponents to hang out on the platforms.

Also, the Dedede-spits are real on Lylat. Like.... Really really real.

I promise you that if you give Lylat a chance, you'll be cruisin' in no time.

Hmm. I'll give it a try.
Any particular trick you'd recommend?

 

[shrooby]

I find myself hating T&C more and more every time I play on it. The platforms that hang off the edges during the stationary periods really screw over on our edge-guarding and a bit of our off-stage play. Same kind of goes for Smashville, but not as much. There are much better options, I feel.

I decided to give @ shrooby a shot, and uh, yeah. I am won over. Lylat is actually a really fun stage for the Dedes. If you just have some self-control and use your jumps rather than going straight for the Up-B, it's definitely a good stage in general. Gordos are super wacky, but predictable if you know the physics of the game well enough. Also, his side and up smashes cover a LOT of area, making it hard for opponents to hang out on the platforms.

Also, the Dedede-spits are real on Lylat. Like.... Really really real.

I promise you that if you give Lylat a chance, you'll be cruisin' in no time.

I actually really like the Smashville platform.
Sometimes I like to mix-up edgeguarding by tossing an up-tilted Gordo onto the platform. That way they can't recover onto it for a bit. Same for Town & City.
The platforms also help make approaching and landing easier.

 

[Genghis_Connor]

T&C and Smashville are always going to be super subjective, you just have to play on them for a while and work out your own opinion of them. Lylat, on the other hand, gets better in my mind every time I play on it.

 

[SalsaSavant]

Okay, so Lylat got semi-fixed. We don't have to worry about clobbahing our own head as much anymore, at least.
However, it still tilts, and can still cause Gordos to go crazy, for better or worse.

What do you guys think? Is the tilt a problem, or can it be used to our advantage? It is not completely random, and can be predicted based on the background.

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

Okay, so Lylat got semi-fixed. We don't have to worry about clobbahing our own head as much anymore, at least.
However, it still tilts, and can still cause Gordos to go crazy, for better or worse.

What do you guys think? Is the tilt a problem, or can it be used to our advantage. It is not completely random, and can be predicted based on the background.

Maaan, I still bonk my head on the underside of Lylat. It's easier not to get caught now sure, but I don't think this would be my first choice fer counterpick...

 

[MuddyMan]

Me personally i like Lylat as a stage for D3. I've spent a lot of time practicing on Lylat just for the reason of Practicing my Up-b. We also have to understand its not like its easy for most characters to recover there either with all the tilts and such.